Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode

WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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Grinding stalemate.... sort of like the Eastern Front in 1917. What happened next, Earp?
One side or the other collapses.

If you are seeking a collapse of Putin's regime, perhaps you want Trump to commit U.S. doughboys to the lines.

PS- I don't think you could have possibly thought the history through.
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
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Making peace with Russia is the best global security you can have

With due respect to some other times when you are right. But you cannot make a deal with the devil. Especially if you realize that the "peace" you and Trump are promoting really means that Russia is rewarded for invading Russia by the retention of the occupied lands.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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One side or the other collapses.

If you are seeking a collapse of Putin's regime, perhaps you want Trump to commit U.S. doughboys to the lines.

PS- I don't think you could have possibly thought the history through.
I think I know about 100 times more European history than you, Earp.

Why would US troops be needed in the frontlines if Putin collapses?

And btw, Czarist Russia collapsed several months before the first Doughboy went over to Europe.
 
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WyattEarp

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I agree, that's the only chance Poilievre has, to firmly tie Carney's policies to Trudeau's as per Oracle's post.
If Carney can distance himself enough, Poilievre's done.
IMO, Poilievre is not a bad guy but I don't think he's that likeable and his main appeal was the total disdain for Trudeau.
With Trudeau gone it's back to square one and with Trump and Ford securely in place, it may not even be that.

I think Poilievre has to swing for the fences and try to sell a bolder economic/industrial vision for the country, as well as
showing a willingness to ween off U.S. dependency.
Trudeau bashing and character assassination of whoever won't cut it anymore I don't think.
People have seen enough of that and understand that won't guarantee anything better.
Very good post even if I don't share all your views on economic matters.
Tying Carney to Trudeau's policies is normal party politics. Carney will have to differentiate himself from Trudeau.
I don't see a Canadian economy that isn't tied to the U.S. a great deal, but a bolder plan for economic development would be good for Canada.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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With due respect to some other times when you are right. But you cannot make a deal with the devil. Especially if you realize that the "peace" you and Trump are promoting really means that Russia is rewarded for invading Russia by the retention of the occupied lands
But on the flipside, if you keep this war going, there's a good chance Putin conquers all of Ukraine.
Then you're in an even bigger shitboat
 
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WyattEarp

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With due respect to some other times when you are right. But you cannot make a deal with the devil. Especially if you realize that the "peace" you and Trump are promoting really means that Russia is rewarded for invading Russia by the retention of the occupied lands.
What do you think happened when the Soviet Union liberated/invaded Eastern Europe? Do you subscribe to the idea that Eastern Europeans voluntarily wanted to align with the Soviet Russians?

PS- Generally, I don't care about typos but you do want to change that last reference to Russia to Ukraine.
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

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The deal was a vague letter of intent, and what he gets in return is the on going billions and billions. As well as assistance in negotiating a peace agreement.
He'd still want to bring up conditional terms.
Nothing unusual about it and of course the first thing he'd ask is security guarantees.
 
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The Oracle

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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
When was the last time we saw any Western leader act like this? No idea.

US politics I think has hit a new historic low. The Democratic Party has effectively collapsed as nothing more than controlled opposition and the GOP has no solid policy, or direction. It's literally a day to day, what the hell will happen next shitshow.

My prediction it will get worse before it gets better is coming true. The hubris of the Oligarchs is coming to the fore. Especially the Tech ones. Amazing how only a few years ago they were woke Democrats and now they see a clear opening and are taking it.

I'm really glad right now I reordered things in my life to secure things up. Rough times are clearly coming. Europe has a very tough choice to make. We shall see whether they will step up now. Because barring a complete capitulation by Zelensky(unless this is a ploy to try to get the Ukrainian parliament to remove him for some reason) Ukraine will not survive.

Thoughts on Saagar's interpretation of today's event?
 
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nottyboi

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With due respect to some other times when you are right. But you cannot make a deal with the devil. Especially if you realize that the "peace" you and Trump are promoting really means that Russia is rewarded for invading Russia by the retention of the occupied lands.
After all the illegal western invasions and wars, you call Russia the devil? What will it take to eject Russia from those lands. Are you willing to contribute half your personal net worth and an arm to that cause?
 

mandrill

monkey
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And what will need to happen to bring that about? Just broad strokes. How many will have to die? Will it go nuclear?
Just play shit through, Notty.

Wait for the Russian economy to crumble a little more and a few more military fiascos. Just like 1917. Or any other regime collapse.
 

WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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I think I know about 100 times more European history than you, Earp.

Why would US troops be needed in the frontlines if Putin collapses?

And btw, Czarist Russia collapsed several months before the first Doughboy went over to Europe.
I was speaking of the Western front. And the analogy holds in that context.

The Ukraine is probably more vulnerable to collapse than Russia. The West can send armaments and supplies, but they won't send soldiers.
 

261252

Nobodies business if I do
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I was not very familiar with Vance. Wow is he ever a little bitch!
Vance is a marine vet who served in Iraq and graduated from Yale law school so he is tough and smart and a weasel and a bitch and a liar and a syncophant

He must know, like others who follow Trump , that Trump is a fool
yet he supports him

I do not understand why? Is it all about power?

What we need are more women and gay leaders as they actually do care about people more than wealth and power and they do not have male ego
 
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SchlongConery

License to Shill
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So, do you want the war to go on for another 20 years??
No.


If Biden (and Obama) had have provided Ukraine with adequate ammunition and outdated surplus equipment earlier, and without the restrictions, Ukraine would likely have already vanquished Russia from Ukrainian territory. But Biden was chickenshit and was also hoping that by slowly meting out equipment that Ukraine would absorb and deplete as much Russian ammo, equipment and resources to weaken Russia into failure. It was a cruel thing to do.

But make no mistake, Trump is obligated to Putin on many fronts. He has to put up a bit of a show but he will pull support from Ukraine as directed by Russia. But not before dividing and further causing chaos in the west. Again, as is Russia's strategy for 80 years.
 

mandrill

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He is a marine vet who served in Iraq and graduated from Yale law school
so he is tough and smart

He must know, like others who follow Trump, that Trump is a fool
yet he supports him
You know he was a rear echelon PR flunky, huh? Nowhere near the front lines. Even then, he kissed ass
 

the general

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Oct 31, 2010
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Putin would have preferred to avoid a war, and it would have required a few small concessions by the USA and NATO that would have meant a lot to Russia and little to them, to avoid it.
True, just listen to Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer. They basically said if NATO kept moving closer, Russia would eventually respond. I realize Putin invaded, but the bear was poked, but lefties will never admit that.
 
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