Munk Debate on Zionism

[Frankfooter]

Investigations in and of themselves aren't proof.

What evidence do you have to make your predictions, Genostradamus? Give us a preview of your case. Give us some names, dates and numbers. Or are you talking out of your ass.

Start here.

The Corporate Power Brokers Behind AIPAC’s War on the Squad

An In These Times investigation reveals the individuals behind AIPAC's election war chest: nearly 60% are CEOs and other top executives at the country's largest corporations.

inthesetimes.com

 

[wigglee]

Well, Trump "won" because Biden doesn't seem up to being president for another 4 years. Most Americans also dislike Trump.

It was a unique debate in the annals of US history.

You think Trump is better than a dementia inflicted Biden? I don't. I would prefer Harris steps up to replace Joe, but even a foggy Joe is better than Trump. Reagan was in a mental fog for the last few years of his presidency too. Repugs don't seem to lament that fact.

 

[wigglee]

And what makes a guy like Murray such a good debater? He is able to provide more facts and history to back up his point of view. And that makes him right.

or maybe whoever determined the winner was biased towards the Zionists? Or maybe Murray is just a more convincing wordsmith?

 

[mandrill]

You think Trump is better than a dementia inflicted Biden? I don't. I would prefer Harris steps up to replace Joe, but even a foggy Joe is better than Trump. Reagan was in a mental fog for the last few years of his presidency too. Repugs don't seem to lament that fact.

Yes. I agree.

 

[shack]

Start here.

The Corporate Power Brokers Behind AIPAC’s War on the Squad

An In These Times investigation reveals the individuals behind AIPAC's election war chest: nearly 60% are CEOs and other top executives at the country's largest corporations.

inthesetimes.com

So you're saying that a completely biased, anti-Israel rag (just read a few of their headlines) publishing a conspiracy theory article, proves that these multi-billionaires will now stop supporting Israel and/or the legislators will turn off their own taps by outlawing AIPAC? You are desperate.

 

[basketcase]

There were no peace offers, basketcase.
...

Except all the ones there were. 1937, 1948, 2000, Clinton parameters, Olmert's offer... and continuing on to Gaza ceasefires, all accepted by Israel while rejected by Palestinian leadership.

One major continuing issue is you and the Palestinian leadership are unwilling to accept any peace that includes a Jewish presence and are willing to punish the Palestinian people in that interest.

Irgun became part of the Israeli government.

Yes, once they were forcibly disarmed and turned into a purely political group, just like happened with the IRA.

I've said it repeatedly that terrorists who renounce terrorism are welcome in any pragmatic world. Fatah was a terrorist group. Now generally (excluding Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade and a couple other factions) they have realized the terrorism isn't helping their people. If Hamas ever does the same, I would accept them as a political organization. This was the whole idea behind the Good Friday Agreement which has essentially stopped terrorism in Ireland.

But you have repeatedly shown that you are an absolutist who is unwilling to accept any deviation from your desire to see Israel destroyed so you're happy to reject the concepts of peace and negotiation.

 

[basketcase]

This is the route the UN should go.
...

South Africa is a messed up state right now but I don't think they should be expelled. Even Russia which is under sanction from most of the democratic world isn't seeing that kind of zealotry.

 

[basketcase]

They can donate their money directly to Israel. What do they need AIPAC for?

AIPAC is an organization of Americans lobbying their government for certain policies. I know you think in terms of Jewish conspiracies but that is a different thing than donating to another country.

 

[basketcase]

...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1808076375250612710

Based on his repeated statements and rejection of ceasefires, sounds a bang on description of Sinwar.

The political millionaires in Doha seem really close to accepting something close to the UN resolution. Hopefully Sinwar won't reject it again.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/11/middleeast/sinwar-hamas-israel-ceasefire-hostage-talks-intl/index.html

'I asked Sinwar, is it worth 10,000 Gazans dying? He said, even 100,000 is worth it'

***

www.haaretz.com

Behind Hamas’s Bloody Gambit to Create a ‘Permanent’ State of War (Published 2023)

Hamas leaders say they waged their Oct. 7 attack on Israel because they believed the Palestinian cause was slipping away, and that only violence could revive it.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Frankfooter]

South Africa is a messed up state right now but I don't think they should be expelled. Even Russia which is under sanction from most of the democratic world isn't seeing that kind of zealotry.

Israel needs to be expelled from the UN.
They are a pariah state being investigated by the ICC, ICJ and refusing to honour multiple UN resolutions.

Kick them out.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1809621339214660090

 

[Frankfooter]

AIPAC is an organization of Americans lobbying their government for certain policies. I know you think in terms of Jewish conspiracies but that is a different thing than donating to another country.

AIPAC represents a small number of dual citizen billionaires.
Not Americans, not American Jews.
Just zionists.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1809076241800065315

 

[K Douglas]

And what makes a guy like Murray such a good debater? He is able to provide more facts and history to back up his point of view. And that makes him right.

Not to mention his lived experience on the ground in Israel.

 

[K Douglas]

AIPAC represents a small number of dual citizen billionaires.
Not Americans, not American Jews.
Just zionists.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1809076241800065315

How do you know this? Have you seen their donor list. You talk out of your ass. All you do is scour Twitter/X for anyone who has a few followers and hates Israel and/or the United States.

 

[Frankfooter]

How do you know this? Have you seen their donor list. You talk out of your ass. All you do is scour Twitter/X for anyone who has a few followers and hates Israel and/or the United States.

The xitter posts links to articles.
You could check it with 5 minutes of googling if you doubt it.

AIPAC Talking Points Revealed

Documents show that the powerful lobby is spreading its influence on Capitol Hill by calling for unconditional military aid to Israel and hyping up threats from Iran.

prospect.org

AIPAC Is Expanding Its Assault. Will Bernie and the Squad Fight Back?

Donors to AIPAC are spending big in Portland, Oregon, to block a candidate who supports a ceasefire in Gaza.

theintercept.com

 

[NotADcotor]

So you're saying that a completely biased, anti-Israel rag (just read a few of their headlines) publishing a conspiracy theory article, proves that these multi-billionaires will now stop supporting Israel and/or the legislators will turn off their own taps by outlawing AIPAC? You are desperate.

Hey HEY, I'm lonely and desperate, don't lump him in with us.

 

[Klatuu]

How do you know this? Have you seen their donor list. You talk out of your ass. All you do is scour Twitter/X for anyone who has a few followers and hates Israel and/or the United States.

Look and ye shall find.

“Three individuals named on the list denied being donors. That includes Leonid Radvinsky, the billionaire owner of OnlyFans, a hugely popular internet platform dominated by sex workers. According to the internal documents, Radvinsky and his wife, Katie Chudnovsky, pledged $11 million to AIPAC — the most of anyone listed.

“I didn’t donate or pledge $11M,” Radvinsky wrote in an email, and “this appl[ies] to me / my foundation / my family.” When The Lever asked Radvinsky why AIPAC had him listed as a donor, Radvinsky replied, “I don’t know.” When The Lever asked Radvinsky to comment on internal AIPAC documentation showing a wire transfer from his wife to AIPAC, Radvinsky stopped responding.”

A rare look into the $90 million AIPAC has raised since Oct. 7

AIPAC has raised $90 million since Oct. 7. Some of that money is already going towards the 2024 elections.

forward.com

 

[Klatuu]

AIPAC IS AN ARM OF ISRAEL AND ITS AS DIRTY AS HELL

“In April 2005, AIPAC policy director Steven Rosen and AIPAC senior Iran analyst Keith Weissman were fired by AIPAC amid an FBI investigation into whether they passed classified U.S. information received from Lawrence Franklin on to the government of Israel. They were later indicted for illegally conspiring to gather and disclose classified national security information to Israel.[131][132] AIPAC agreed to pay the legal fees for Weissman's defense through appeal if necessary.[133]

In May 2005, the Justice Department announced that Lawrence Anthony Franklin, a U.S. Air Force Reserves colonel working as a Department of Defense analyst at the Pentagon in the office of Douglas Feith, had been arrested and charged by the FBI with providing classified national defense information to Israel. The six-count criminal complaint identified AIPAC by name and described a luncheon meeting in which, allegedly, Franklin disclosed top-secret information to two AIPAC officials.[134][135]

Franklin pleaded guilty to passing government secrets to Rosen and Weissman and revealed for the first time that he also gave classified information directly to an Israeli government official in Washington. On January 20, 2006, he was sentenced to 151 months (almost 13 years) in prison and fined $10,000. As part of the plea agreement, Franklin agreed to cooperate in the larger federal investigation. All charges against the former AIPAC employees were dropped in 2009.[136]”

AIPAC - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[shack]

AIPAC represents a small number of dual citizen billionaires.

Yet somehow, this small number wags the tail of American lawmakers. And you think that the US will outlaw AIPAC.

That's loser talk, Geno. You consistently contradict yourself.

 

[shack]

Hey HEY, I'm lonely and desperate, don't lump him in with us.

But your heart is not filled with hate and bloodlust. Just lust of a different kind.

 

[shack]

Or maybe Murray is just a more convincing wordsmith?

What does being a wordsmith mean? He lies but in such a way that you guys can't find ways to dispute it? I guess that's your problem.

To me, being a wordsmith means he is more adept at articulating the truth and exposing/cutting through the lies of his debating opponents. Maybe that's just jealousy from your side. I can understand why you have a problem with that.