The Discussion That Anti-Zionism is Not Anti-Semitism

niniveh

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2009
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You're back to this concept that votes are owed to politicians and not voting for them is punishment.
Votes are earned, not owed.

It is not 'punishment' to refuse to vote for genocide.

You know how democracy is supposed to work.

MUSEUM WORKERS GET IT............ BUT NOT HASBARA WARRIORS


Museum Workers Walk Out, Describing Exhibit as Aligned With Zionism
The Wing Luke Museum in Seattle temporarily closed after employees criticized an exhibition, saying it wrongly conflated anti-Zionism with antisemitism.


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A red brick building with a glass storefront.

The Wing Luke Museum in Seattle, which has been closed by employee protests.Credit...Stuart Isett for The New York Times
Zachary Small
By Zachary Small
May 27, 2024
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The Wing Luke Museum in Seattle remained closed on Monday afternoon, nearly a week after employees walked off the job to protest an exhibition that includes language they believe frames “Palestinian liberation and anti-Zionism as antisemitism.”
Almost half the museum staff participated in the walkout, which began on Wednesday, the scheduled opening day of “Confronting Hate Together,” an exhibition looking at how communities oppose forms of bigotry, including racism and antisemitism. The 24 employees who staged the walkout said in letters that museum leaders had failed to address their concerns, but the museum said in an online statement that it would remain closed to “listen and earnestly engage in dialog with our staff.”
Lisa Kranseler, director of the Washington State Jewish Historical Society, which collaborated on the exhibition, said the museum was now considering taking down the show because of the controversy. (The museum did not immediately respond to a request for comment.)
“It is very sad,” Kranseler said in a phone interview. “We worked with them for almost a year and a half on the exhibition.”



The sudden closure of the museum was the latest example of how cultural institutions have struggled to navigate the politics of the Israel-Hamas war. Disagreements on how to address the suffering of Palestinian and Israeli civilians have led to executivesleaving their organizations; artists have also faced censorship and have embedded hidden political messages in their work.
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Employees at the Wing Luke Museum — an organization focused on the histories and cultures of Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians, and Pacific Islanders — said their main concern was an exhibition text that had been developed alongside the Washington State Jewish Historical Society. It stated that “today antisemitism is often disguised as anti-Zionism, with Jews everywhere expected to defend the actions of Israel’s right-wing government.” The panel then described several local examples of antisemitism, including when the Herzl-Ner Tamid Synagogue on Mercer Island was spray-painted with the words “stop the killing” in November.
In a May 19 letter, the protesting staff said the “Confronting Hate Together” exhibition damaged community trust and aligned the museum with Zionism. The employees asked that museum leaders “acknowledge the limited perspectives presented in this exhibition. Missing perspectives include those of Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslim communities who are also experiencing an increased amount of violence, scapegoating, and demonization.”

Zionism has traditionally referred to a belief in Jewish self-determination through the state of Israel. But more recently, the term has been used to critique Israel’s expansion into Palestinian territories.
The museum has not directly responded to the letters. In a statement on social media, the museum said that when it does reopen it will “offer free admission for the community to experience this powerful exhibition.”



“We look forward to continuing to serve our mission to advance racial and social equity together with our staff,” the statement continued, “and welcome them to join us as the dialogue around this important exhibit continues.”
Over the weekend, employees continued to put pressure on the museum, starting an online fundraiser to aid the striking staff and providing a new statement on their protest.
“Museums are not neutral,” the employees said. “The role of a museum is to educate, to provide an artful and peaceful space for reflection, and to foster learning and provide a model for confronting bias, prejudice, or colonialist history.”
Kranseler said the protest had introduced contemporary politics into an exhibition that was fundamentally about stopping division and hatred.
“The original exhibition was always supposed to be a starting point,” she said.
NEW
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Voter's should 100 percent be blamed for the government their voting behavior produces.
Weird theory.
So voters should have known that Biden was genocidal in 2016?


Supposed

I am glad that somewhere in all of this you have at least internalized that this isn't the system you are actually talking about.
(I would say "are in", but you don't vote in US elections.)

You want to behave based in the way you want the system to work instead of the system that exists.

As I keep pointing out to you, acting that way only makes your own goals less likely.
This is a known, documented flaw in the electoral system as it stands right now.

Closing your eyes and wishing really hard that if you just acted as if the system worked the way you feel it should then it will doesn't actually accomplish anything useful.

View attachment 329350
No

You post endlessly about how you think democracy will be lost if rump is elected, but your entire argument relies on democracy already being gone.

 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
31,866
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Weird theory.
So voters should have known that Biden was genocidal in 2016?
What a silly comment.



No

You post endlessly about how you think democracy will be lost if rump is elected, but your entire argument relies on democracy already being gone.

This cas person is pretty dumb. (Unless you are cutting off a thread in which they prove themselves to be less obviously dumb.

I do like your new position on systemic election structure, though.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
88,535
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I do like your new position on systemic election structure, though.
Is that as good as the way you've gone full MAGA?

The same way they declare 'its an emergency, democracy/the state is in danger' to say the base needs to vote for their leader even if he's corrupt?
The same way you say its 'pragmatic' to vote for a genocidal leader because 'democracy is in danger'?

Both camps argue that you have to forgive the sins of your leader because the state is in total danger.

How are you arguing this saves or is democracy?
 

carwash

Active member
Apr 21, 2024
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Is that as good as the way you've gone full MAGA?

The same way they declare 'its an emergency, democracy/the state is in danger' to say the base needs to vote for their leader even if he's corrupt?
The same way you say its 'pragmatic' to vote for a genocidal leader because 'democracy is in danger'?

Both camps argue that you have to forgive the sins of your leader because the state is in total danger.

How are you arguing this saves or is democracy?
This person spends his entire woken hours posting on this site. LOL
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Some of Trump's people are openly calling for the destruction of all Palestinians in Gaza and you somehow see that as better.
I don't think rump is better, but that doesn't mean anyone should ever vote for someone who is aiding genocide.
I'm sure the fact that AIPAC billionaires are buying US acceptance of West Bank annexation very happy.
The two state solution is dead but this will just speed up BDS.

 
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niniveh

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2009
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I don't think rump is better, but that doesn't mean anyone should ever vote for someone who is aiding genocide.
I'm sure the fact that AIPAC billionaires are buying US acceptance of West Bank annexation very happy.
The two state solution is dead but this will just speed up BDS.

McCARTHYISM ANEW: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH



Columbia Law Review Website Is Taken Offline Over Article Criticizing Israel
The board of directors of the student-run publication said that the article, by a Palestinian human rights lawyer, had not been subject to sufficient review.


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Several people, shown from below in silhouette, hold up signs and a Palestinian flag on a city street.

The involvement of the Columbia Law Review’s board of directors, which consists of faculty members and alumni, was unusual; the board does not typically weigh in on editorial decisions.Credit...Karsten Moran for The New York Times
Sharon Otterman
By Sharon Otterman
June 4, 2024
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The website of the Columbia Law Review, one of the United States’ most prestigious student-edited law journals, was taken offline Monday by its board of directors after its editors published an article that argues Palestinians are living under a “brutally sophisticated structure of oppression” by Israel that amounts to a crime against humanity.
As of Tuesday evening, visitors to the website of the 123-year-old journal saw only a blank page with the message “Website is under maintenance.”
The decision to suspend access to the website is the latest example of how American universities have sought to regulate expression that is highly critical of Israel amid concerns that it veers into antisemitism. That, in turn, has spurred complaints about censorship and academic freedom when it comes to Palestinian scholarship.
In a statement, the board of directors, which consists of faculty members and alumni, said it had decided to suspend the website on Monday after learning two days earlier that not all of the students on the Law Review had read the essay before publication.



The board said that it had asked the editors to hold the article until June 7, to give others time to read it but that they had published it on Monday instead. The board then decided to take the website down temporarily “to provide time for the Law Review to determine how to proceed.”
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In a letter Tuesday to the editorial staff that was provided to The New York Times, the board charged that the article had been handled with unusual secrecy, calling that “unacceptable.”
The involvement of the 12-member board, which includes Gillian Lester, the law school dean; Gillian Metzger, a constitutional law scholar at Columbia; and Ginger Anders, an alumna and former assistant to the U.S. solicitor general, was also unusual. The board is not typically involved in the editorial decisions of the student-led organization.
“To my knowledge, this is the first time ever that the board of directors of the Law Review has intervened in any way in the publication of an article,” said Katherine Franke, a Columbia law professor who supported the piece’s publication.
“It’s a little hard for me to believe that if the article had been about anything else, the board would have cared about the process,” she added.


Mr. Eghbariah called the website’s shutdown an attempt to silence his scholarship.
“What is so scary about Palestinians speaking their truth?” he said.
The editors on the Review did use a “somewhat irregular process” in editing the piece, “Toward Nakba as a Legal Concept,” because they were concerned about censorship, Professor Franke said. Students involved in the editing said that among the roughly 100 people involved with the journal, they had created a smaller committee to solicit and select the piece, a procedure the Review does not always use.
That committee defended the process. In a statement, it said that the article “went through at least six rounds of intensive editing and fact-checking over several months to prepare for publication. Thirty editors collectively spent hundreds of hours working on the article — numbers consistent with other articles the Review publishes.”
Since the Oct. 7 Hamas attack on Israel, dozens of university faculty members across the country have been investigated, suspended or fired for making statements that critics charge are antisemitic or supportive of the attack. Student protests have also been widely condemned as antisemitic, even when the protesters say that their anti-Zionist views do not mean they are against Jews.



In November, a shorter version of Mr. Eghbariah’s article was fully edited at the Harvard Law Review but was pulled from publication at the last minute after an emergency vote by the entire editorial staff, The Intercept reported. The Nation later published that essay in full.
In its letter to the Columbia Law Review editorial staff, the board of directors said Tuesday that it would like to restore the website soon but requested that a note be appended to the article stating that it not been “subject to the usual processes of review and editing.”
“It was solicited outside of the usual articles selection process and edited and substantiated by a limited number of student editors,” the board wanted the note to read. “Contrary to ordinary practice, it was not made available for all student editors to read.”
The board also noted that some members of the Law Review had complained of issues beyond being excluded from the article’s editing.
“We are concerned about the atmosphere on the Review, and about statements some students have made to us about feeling excluded and unwelcome at the Review,” the board wrote to the staff. “We hope to work with you to address those issues going forward.”
 
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basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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I don't think rump is better, but that doesn't mean anyone should ever vote for someone who is aiding genocide.
...
Trump is openly worse for Palestinians but you guys are so obsessed you are willing to cut off your nose to spite your face.
 

niniveh

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2009
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You think rump's genocide would be worse than Biden's genocide?
Explain how much more genocide you think would happen with rump in office.


ARMY MAJOR HARRISON MANN RESIGNS IN PROTEST

 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
I don't think rump is better, but that doesn't mean anyone should ever vote for someone who is aiding genocide.
I'm sure the fact that AIPAC billionaires are buying US acceptance of West Bank annexation very happy.
The two state solution is dead but this will just speed up BDS.
So, if you were American and making a choice in Nov. who would you vote for trump or Biden? I am not anticipating anything close to a direct answer. He won't choose.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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ARMY MAJOR HARRISON MANN RESIGNS IN PROTEST

Every so often you decide a Jew is actually worth listening to.

I'm sure this won't change people's opinion that Jews control America though.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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So, if you were American and making a choice in Nov. who would you vote for trump or Biden? I am not anticipating anything close to a direct answer. He won't choose.
I'd vote for the only Jewish candidate.
Jill Stein.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
88,535
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Every so often you decide a Jew is actually worth listening to.

I'm sure this won't change people's opinion that Jews control America though.
Are you going to call them a 'self hating Jew'?

Considering Maga republicans have been advocating Gaza be nuked, yes. meanwhile Biden is pushing for a ceasefire.
Biden is not pushing for a ceasefire, if that were the case he'd have stopped blocking the UN, ICJ and ICC, stopped sending Israel money and bombs and banned AIPAC.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
31,866
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Trump is openly worse for Palestinians but you guys are so obsessed you are willing to cut off your nose to spite your face.
You are forgetting his theory that Trump is incompetent and so therefore nothing bad Trump and the GOP promise to do will ever happen.
Therefore, since they want to do bad things but are incompetent, only good things will happen if you put them in power.
 
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