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The Discussion That Anti-Zionism is Not Anti-Semitism

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Yes.
That's the same one I linked to.
It shows the US is more popular than China and Russia.

View attachment 328178
My bad, it was popularity in MENA countries that has dropped the largest with the chart on the next page showing those changes.
The poll is bad news for the US, along with democracy in general.





I did.
It doesn't say he "lost his base" at all.
It's talking about something else entirely.
You don't think losing 20% of your voters in the swing states isn't losing your base?
Combine that with his numbers for Arab Americans.

 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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My bad, it was popularity in MENA countries that has dropped the largest with the chart on the next page showing those changes.
Fair enough.
Yes, in MENA, China is the most positively viewed.

The poll is bad news for the US, along with democracy in general.
No argument.

You don't think losing 20% of your voters in the swing states isn't losing your base?
That's not what the report says.

Combine that with his numbers for Arab Americans.
Arab Americans who are subscribers to an outreach organization and filled out an online poll?

Maybe that's not what that survey is, but The Truth Project doesn't inspire much confidence here: https://truthproject.us/news-grid/
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
29,223
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No, you've just been calling into question every poll that suggests its hurting his reelection.
I've been calling into question your interpretation of those polls.
Because you tend to over-read them to make them confirm to your prior beliefs.

The question should be why haven't the dems stopped him from self destructing over Palestine?
Because "The Dems" are not a monolith and this issue has multiple fault lines across the party.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I've been calling into question your interpretation of those polls.
Because you tend to over-read them to make them confirm to your prior beliefs.
Sure, and where has that left you?
Months of declaring its not going to be a problem and now?

Because "The Dems" are not a monolith and this issue has multiple fault lines across the party.
So?
All the more reason that you work those fault lines to your advantage to force Biden to change before he puts rump in power and destroys Gaza.

Now you're just back to blaming voters who aren't 'pragmatic' and watching the democracy you've been so worried about be destroyed.
A very large part of the US has been trying to get Biden to listen and stop the genocide, now you want to take some moral position of superiority and blame them for what's coming.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Sure, and where has that left you?
Months of declaring its not going to be a problem and now?
I've not said it isn't going to be a problem.
I've said that just because you want to think it is the only thing responsible for Biden's numbers doesn't make it true.

So?
All the more reason that you work those fault lines to your advantage to force Biden to change before he puts rump in power and destroys Gaza.
Sure.
That's exactly right.

You asked why "they" haven't stopped him and I gave you the answer.

That there is a split means you can keep working at it.
I never said otherwise.

Now you're just back to blaming voters who aren't 'pragmatic' and watching the democracy you've been so worried about be destroyed.
A very large part of the US has been trying to get Biden to listen and stop the genocide, now you want to take some moral position of superiority and blame them for what's coming.
They should be trying to get Biden to listen if their goal is to change the policy.
I'm not blaming them for that at all.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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They should be trying to get Biden to listen if their goal is to change the policy.
I'm not blaming them for that at all.
Yes you are.

You keep trying to blame me and other voters who won't vote for Biden's genocide instead of arguing that the party needs to stop the genocide.
In all of these debates you have yet to say that Biden's choice is wrong, instead you repeatedly argue that its wrong not to still support him.
You have not once argued that the change needs to be with the party and Biden.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Yes you are.

You keep trying to blame me and other voters who won't vote for Biden's genocide instead of arguing that the party needs to stop the genocide.
In all of these debates you have yet to say that Biden's choice is wrong, instead you repeatedly argue that its wrong not to still support him.
You have not once argued that the change needs to be with the party and Biden.
Biden's policy is wrong here.
I've said that more than once, Frank.
The change does need to be within the party and Biden.

I am blaming you (not that you actually vote) for arguing that not voting for Biden is the right thing to do, because it will not get you what you want.
That is, of course, if what you want is better policy from the US on this issue.
If what you want is to feel morally pure and punish Biden for what you think is bad behavior, then it will.

1716997588676.png
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Biden's policy is wrong here.
I've said that more than once, Frank.
The change does need to be within the party and Biden.

I am blaming you (not that you actually vote) for arguing that not voting for Biden is the right thing to do, because it will not get you what you want.
That is, of course, if what you want is better policy from the US on this issue.
If what you want is to feel morally pure and punish Biden for what you think is bad behavior, then it will.
Your blame is on the wrong target.
Blame Biden.
And work to get him to change policy.

No voter should ever be attacked for refusing to vote for someone actively aiding genocide.
Attack Biden instead.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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If what you want is to feel morally pure and punish Biden for what you think is bad behavior, then it will.
You're back to this concept that votes are owed to politicians and not voting for them is punishment.
Votes are earned, not owed.

It is not 'punishment' to refuse to vote for genocide.

You know how democracy is supposed to work.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Your blame is on the wrong target.
Blame Biden.
And work to get him to change policy.

No voter should ever be attacked for refusing to vote for someone actively aiding genocide.
Attack Biden instead.
Voters should 100 percent be blamed for the government their voting behavior produces.

You're back to this concept that votes are owed to politicians and not voting for them is punishment.
Votes are earned, not owed.

It is not 'punishment' to refuse to vote for genocide.

You know how democracy is supposed to work.
Supposed

I am glad that somewhere in all of this you have at least internalized that this isn't the system you are actually talking about.
(I would say "are in", but you don't vote in US elections.)

You want to behave based in the way you want the system to work instead of the system that exists.

As I keep pointing out to you, acting that way only makes your own goals less likely.
This is a known, documented flaw in the electoral system as it stands right now.

Closing your eyes and wishing really hard that if you just acted as if the system worked the way you feel it should then it will doesn't actually accomplish anything useful.

1717007882706.jpeg
 
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niniveh

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2009
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You're back to this concept that votes are owed to politicians and not voting for them is punishment.
Votes are earned, not owed.

It is not 'punishment' to refuse to vote for genocide.

You know how democracy is supposed to work.

MUSEUM WORKERS GET IT............ BUT NOT HASBARA WARRIORS


Museum Workers Walk Out, Describing Exhibit as Aligned With Zionism
The Wing Luke Museum in Seattle temporarily closed after employees criticized an exhibition, saying it wrongly conflated anti-Zionism with antisemitism.


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A red brick building with a glass storefront.

The Wing Luke Museum in Seattle, which has been closed by employee protests.Credit...Stuart Isett for The New York Times
Zachary Small
By Zachary Small
May 27, 2024
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The Wing Luke Museum in Seattle remained closed on Monday afternoon, nearly a week after employees walked off the job to protest an exhibition that includes language they believe frames “Palestinian liberation and anti-Zionism as antisemitism.”
Almost half the museum staff participated in the walkout, which began on Wednesday, the scheduled opening day of “Confronting Hate Together,” an exhibition looking at how communities oppose forms of bigotry, including racism and antisemitism. The 24 employees who staged the walkout said in letters that museum leaders had failed to address their concerns, but the museum said in an online statement that it would remain closed to “listen and earnestly engage in dialog with our staff.”
Lisa Kranseler, director of the Washington State Jewish Historical Society, which collaborated on the exhibition, said the museum was now considering taking down the show because of the controversy. (The museum did not immediately respond to a request for comment.)
“It is very sad,” Kranseler said in a phone interview. “We worked with them for almost a year and a half on the exhibition.”



The sudden closure of the museum was the latest example of how cultural institutions have struggled to navigate the politics of the Israel-Hamas war. Disagreements on how to address the suffering of Palestinian and Israeli civilians have led to executivesleaving their organizations; artists have also faced censorship and have embedded hidden political messages in their work.
Sign up for the Israel-Hamas War Briefing. The latest news about the conflict. Get it sent to your inbox.

Employees at the Wing Luke Museum — an organization focused on the histories and cultures of Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians, and Pacific Islanders — said their main concern was an exhibition text that had been developed alongside the Washington State Jewish Historical Society. It stated that “today antisemitism is often disguised as anti-Zionism, with Jews everywhere expected to defend the actions of Israel’s right-wing government.” The panel then described several local examples of antisemitism, including when the Herzl-Ner Tamid Synagogue on Mercer Island was spray-painted with the words “stop the killing” in November.
In a May 19 letter, the protesting staff said the “Confronting Hate Together” exhibition damaged community trust and aligned the museum with Zionism. The employees asked that museum leaders “acknowledge the limited perspectives presented in this exhibition. Missing perspectives include those of Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslim communities who are also experiencing an increased amount of violence, scapegoating, and demonization.”

Zionism has traditionally referred to a belief in Jewish self-determination through the state of Israel. But more recently, the term has been used to critique Israel’s expansion into Palestinian territories.
The museum has not directly responded to the letters. In a statement on social media, the museum said that when it does reopen it will “offer free admission for the community to experience this powerful exhibition.”



“We look forward to continuing to serve our mission to advance racial and social equity together with our staff,” the statement continued, “and welcome them to join us as the dialogue around this important exhibit continues.”
Over the weekend, employees continued to put pressure on the museum, starting an online fundraiser to aid the striking staff and providing a new statement on their protest.
“Museums are not neutral,” the employees said. “The role of a museum is to educate, to provide an artful and peaceful space for reflection, and to foster learning and provide a model for confronting bias, prejudice, or colonialist history.”
Kranseler said the protest had introduced contemporary politics into an exhibition that was fundamentally about stopping division and hatred.
“The original exhibition was always supposed to be a starting point,” she said.
NEW
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Voter's should 100 percent be blamed for the government their voting behavior produces.
Weird theory.
So voters should have known that Biden was genocidal in 2016?


Supposed

I am glad that somewhere in all of this you have at least internalized that this isn't the system you are actually talking about.
(I would say "are in", but you don't vote in US elections.)

You want to behave based in the way you want the system to work instead of the system that exists.

As I keep pointing out to you, acting that way only makes your own goals less likely.
This is a known, documented flaw in the electoral system as it stands right now.

Closing your eyes and wishing really hard that if you just acted as if the system worked the way you feel it should then it will doesn't actually accomplish anything useful.

View attachment 329350
No

You post endlessly about how you think democracy will be lost if rump is elected, but your entire argument relies on democracy already being gone.

 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
29,223
52,458
113
Weird theory.
So voters should have known that Biden was genocidal in 2016?
What a silly comment.



No

You post endlessly about how you think democracy will be lost if rump is elected, but your entire argument relies on democracy already being gone.

This cas person is pretty dumb. (Unless you are cutting off a thread in which they prove themselves to be less obviously dumb.

I do like your new position on systemic election structure, though.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
83,508
18,909
113
I do like your new position on systemic election structure, though.
Is that as good as the way you've gone full MAGA?

The same way they declare 'its an emergency, democracy/the state is in danger' to say the base needs to vote for their leader even if he's corrupt?
The same way you say its 'pragmatic' to vote for a genocidal leader because 'democracy is in danger'?

Both camps argue that you have to forgive the sins of your leader because the state is in total danger.

How are you arguing this saves or is democracy?
 

carwash

Active member
Apr 21, 2024
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Is that as good as the way you've gone full MAGA?

The same way they declare 'its an emergency, democracy/the state is in danger' to say the base needs to vote for their leader even if he's corrupt?
The same way you say its 'pragmatic' to vote for a genocidal leader because 'democracy is in danger'?

Both camps argue that you have to forgive the sins of your leader because the state is in total danger.

How are you arguing this saves or is democracy?
This person spends his entire woken hours posting on this site. LOL
 
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Ashley Madison
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