Chinese lab playing around with Ebola virus

[kherg007]

Except it's never called a vaccine is it? You'll always be asked if you got your flu shot.

Because it was generally accepted that vaccines weren't an annual thing.

Of course they changed the definition of the word so as to make the Covid shots more palatable to the general public.

No, it's a vaccine. And it's annual. Because some people don't call it a vaccine doesnt make it not a vaccine. And it's anticipating what variation might appear. And, it doesn't always get it right each year either. Making a best guess.

Maybe the definition will clarify: a substance used to stimulate immunity to a particular infectious disease or pathogen, typically prepared from an inactivated or weakened form of the causative agent or from its constituents or products.

 

[Valcazar]

How can I be anti-science when I've owned plenty of bio stocks in the past??

Easily?
Why would that have anything to do with anything?

People own bitcoin knowing it is based on bullshit but they can make money.

I'm very much pro science, but I dont think playing around with Ebola virus is a good idea

So it is no longer you being against all vaccine research?



It's supposed to be just about Ebola?

We have established no such thing

Again, see post 20.
You clearly said you were against all research on viruses.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

It's supposed to be just about Ebola?

Again, see post 20.
You clearly said you were against all research on viruses.

I should have been more specific. I'm against labs playing around with dangerous viruses (like Ebola or Marburg).
Obviously creating flu vaccines has been shown to be safe

 

[Valcazar]

How do you know a mutated Ebola virus a bio firm is working on cant leak and cause a pandemic??

Of course it could.
That's why there is all this talk about BioSafety Levels.
Has been a major issue for decades.

 

[Valcazar]

They came up with a smallpox vaccine AFTER that virus had causes millions of deaths.
Of course in that case developing a vaccine is a good thing.

Can you name 1 vaccine thats been developed BEFORE a pandemic started??

Ebola, obviously, since there hasn't been an Ebola pandemic from what I understand.
I'm sure there are a few others, since many diseases were well known but never reached pandemic status.
Pretty sure mumps qualifies, for example.

 

[Valcazar]

@Kautilya @Valcazar why do you waste time with this idiot? Can't you see the MO of his responses? It's atypical of the brainwashed, quick to deflect, answer with questions, misinform, mislead, and misdirect.

It's mostly to see how the thought process goes so I can deal with it better in real life with people who matter.

 

[Valcazar]

The only valid concern you have seems to be that there is an increase in risk of deadly pathogens leaking and killing everyone. So, the recommendation should be to improve containment and safety standards. Not to shut down research itself.

Ironically, the article is specifically about how to make an Ebola model less deadly so it can be studied in BSL2 conditions instead of remaining a BSL4 level threat where an outbreak would be a much bigger risk.

 

[Valcazar]

Looks like I'm not the only one who voices concern.
But science.org must be anti-science as well then, huh??

No.
They are quite pro-science, talking about the serious issues involved in lab safety.
You are saying no one should study vaccines and also "Uh oh, it's the Chinese".
Hell, you even posted this as if it offered some kind of evidence for SARS-CoV-2 escaping from the lab at Wuhan

For those of you who still dont believe Covid got away from the Wuhan lab, have a look what another Chinese lab is currently working on.

I mean, if you were seriously concerned and thought this science.org article supported you, the fact your original post was about how to make things safer and avoid needing to work in BSL-4 conditions would be a good thing, given the concerns listed here.

Worldwide, there are 51 biosafety level-4 (BSL-4) labs in 27 countries, according to the Global BioLabs Report 2023, which was released on 16 March. These labs have the highest level of safety and security standards, where workers often wear protective suits. Fifty-one is roughly double the number that existed about a decade ago. Many BSL-4 labs were built in the wake of the 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States to develop biodefense countermeasures and in response to the 2003 multicountry outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS). Three-quarters of the BSL-4 labs are in urban areas, creating risk for more people if a pathogen escaped.

I assume at the very least you agree with this sensible approach?

The report urges the World Health Organization to strengthen guidance and individual countries to agree to audits by outside experts to ensure that their labs meet international standards.

 

[Valcazar]

Except it's never called a vaccine is it? You'll always be asked if you got your flu shot.

It's always been called a vaccine.
People call it a "shot" in general parlance because it is delivered by a shot.

Because it was generally accepted that vaccines weren't an annual thing.

This is nonsense.

Of course they changed the definition of the word so as to make the Covid shots more palatable to the general public.

The tinfoil is strong with you.

 

[Valcazar]

I should have been more specific. I'm against labs playing around with dangerous viruses (like Ebola or Marburg).
Obviously creating flu vaccines has been shown to be safe

Ok then.
So you are presumably fine with the research being done on H5N1 ?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

No.
They are quite pro-science, talking about the serious issues involved in lab safety.
You are saying no one should study vaccines and also "Uh oh, it's the Chinese".
Hell, you even posted this as if it offered some kind of evidence for SARS-CoV-2 escaping from the lab at Wuhan

Why do you get so defensive when people call out China??
Are we not allowed to criticize China because you're a far Leftie, and China is a communist country also??

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Of course it could.
That's why there is all this talk about BioSafety Levels.
Has been a major issue for decades

Even with all the Biosafety levels in place, lab leaks still happen.
Read and learn: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/30/lab-leaks-shrouded-secrecy

 

[Valcazar]

Why do you get so defensive when people call out China??
Are we not allowed to criticize China because you're a far Leftie, and China is a communist country also??

LOL

How am I being defensive about you "calling out China".
I'm pointing out that your own post undercuts your pretense that this is about lab safety concern.

Even with all the Biosafety levels in place, lab leaks still happen.
Read and learn: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/30/lab-leaks-shrouded-secrecy

Of course they do.
Mistakes are inevitable.
This is part of the whole concept of security - risk management.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Of course they do.
Mistakes are inevitable.
This is part of the whole concept of security - risk management

Right, which is exactly why they shouldnt mess around with a dangerous virus like Ebola

 

[basketcase]

Malaria is not a virus. Its caused by a parasite which has a simple cure.
...

Yet centuries later and it's still responsible for 3 or 4 hundred thousand deaths per year.

 

[basketcase]

They came up with a smallpox vaccine AFTER that virus had causes millions of deaths.
Of course in that case developing a vaccine is a good thing.

Can you name 1 vaccine thats been developed BEFORE a pandemic started??

They don't come up with the vaccines before because it is pointless until you know the exact genetics of the virus. They develop treatments and they identify mechanisms the virus uses which can be targeted with vaccines or treatments.

 

[basketcase]

Looks like I'm not the only one who voices concern.
...

It would be stupid to claim that scientists studying infectious diseases aren't concerned about leaks as that is a big part of their job. But similarly, they know the protocols and the functioning of viruses in the wild so see it far more likely that a new pandemic will emerge from nature.

 

[basketcase]

Every year the standard flu vaccine is done to anticipate the next virus. For the record. Carry on.

I may be wrong but don't they just survey the strains going around in the southern hemisphere and predict which ones are likely to spread here?

 

[kherg007]

I may be wrong but don't they just survey the strains going around in the southern hemisphere and predict which ones are likely to spread here?

Yes that's one part of it. But these things mutate all the time. And you have to anticipate other issues, and weigh the cost/benefit.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

weigh the cost/benefit

This ^