Israel at war

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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In my opinion, 1967 is a good line to draw because Israel started building settlements in the West Bank in 1967, which are actually illegal per international law.
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The fact that you need to draw the line there says a lot. It's obvious why you don't want to start in 1919 when Arab leaders incited mob violence against indigenous Jewish populations or 1948 when Palestinian and Arab leadership chose rejection and war.
 

basketcase

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Hamas are Palestinians. Palestinians are not Hamas.
Some terrorists are Muslim. Muslims are not terrorists.
Islamic Fundamentalists believe in Islam. Muslims who believe in Islam are however, not fundamentalists.
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Yet when it comes to Israel's Jews, you have said they all should be expelled, even the ones who have dedicated their lives to fighting for Palestinian rights.
 

basketcase

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-1

The super quick history, sure to start lots of debate on its own.
1900's Palestine was pluralistic, Muslim, Christian and Jews under British rule.
1900 - 1930's - the zionist movement decided Israel was their new homeland
WWII - holocaust and horrid shite happened to the Jewish people
Post WWII - Churchill, himself very racist, works to solve the Jewish refugee problem by offering them half of Palestine, despite having promised Palestinians to return the entire country to them.
1948 - UN agrees to give half of Palestine to 7% of the population, Palestinians aren't happy and zionists aren't either.
1948 -67 lots of fighting
1967 - Israel takes over all of Palestine
1967 - now - Israel wipes Palestine off the map, occasionally pretending to talk peace like with Oslo, but always establishing 'facts on the ground' as Netanyahu called them
1988 - Hamas is started in reaction to an ineffectual Palestinian government

Zionists are like Russia is to Ukraine here. A foreign movement that has taken over another country.

The issue is that there are 5 million Israeli Jews and 5 million Palestinians so while Israel has taken too much land to enact the two state solution if you ask them about the 'demographic' problem they'll also freak out. Israel can't exist as a 'Jewish' state if Palestinians have the vote, since they are half the population. And that leaves them where they are. No land left for a viable two state solution and too many Palestinians for them to accept Palestinians with equal rights. Palestinians have nowhere to go and don't want to join the other 5 million Palestinian refugees who were chased out of the country in 1948.
I love that you are at least attempting to discuss history. Would you like some of the gaps filled in? I know you refuse to believe Arabs can have agency or ability to make their decisions but...


I actually spent 15 minutes writing up a deep summary of the conflict but I know you won't read and instead will just scream , yell, spam tweets, and fake posts.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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I dont want to start in 1919 or 1948, because there is no point in doing so when thinking about what we should do next. I have already said I reject the premise of Israel. If I was God, or had the miraculous power to turn back the clock, Israel would not exist as a country AT ALL and we would not be having this discussion.

That is an outright blatant lie. Quote my post where I said that.
What hypocrisy. If you want to deal with what to do next, then there's no reason to start in 1967.

Next should be pressuring both sides to negotiate something that works for the 10 million Israelis, 5 million in West Bank and Gaza, and the millions of refugees and descendants.

And it is moronic to claim Canada's theft of land created a legitimate state but say it's illegitimate for Jews to continue being in the Middle East.
 
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basketcase

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Well Israel wont give up settlements. IMO, whoever you appoint as the Palestinian representative, the Palestinian side should just accept what they have. Like Gaza, Area A and Area B - if that is all they are getting, in return for forming a sovereign state, they should accept. Form the state first and everything else next.
Except they have in the past and Olmert's offer in 2008 offered a completely contiguous Palestinian state.

And sorry but why would anyone offer a state before working out any details or even getting the other side to accept that state as a permanent resolution to the conflict?
 
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Frankfooter

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Well Israel wont give up settlements. IMO, whoever you appoint as the Palestinian representative, the Palestinian side should just accept what they have. Like Gaza, Area A and Area B - if that is all they are getting, in return for forming a sovereign state, they should accept. Form the state first and everything else next.
'
That's a problem.
First, keeping the settlements is a war crime.
Second, if you do, all you're left with are Bantustans.

How would that be different from the de facto apartheid state there now?
 

shack

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I said that religious extremists who think they are the chosen people believe that, hammy.
That's strange because the entirety of what you typed was this:
I think there is an exception for all chosen people, they can do no wrong and slaughtering lesser humans is part of their path of righteousness.
I don't see what you claim. For sure, though, I see that you called Palestinians "lesser humans". You keep referring to genocide, so there's denying that's who you meant.
 

Frankfooter

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That's strange because the entirety of what you typed was this:
I think there is an exception for all chosen people, they can do no wrong and slaughtering lesser humans is part of their path of righteousness.
I don't see what you claim. For sure, though, I see that you called Palestinians "lesser humans". You keep referring to genocide, so there's denying that's who you meant.
Do you think the zionists who call themselves the 'chosen people' think that slaughtering the Palestinians they refuse basic human rights to think they are on a path to righteousness, hammy? Under Israeli apartheid, Palestinians have zero human rights, do you think that makes them legally 'lesser humans' than Israeli Jews?

Do you support keeping Palestinians legally as 'lesser humans' on your own path to righteousness on this board?
Is that why you keep arguing they are not part of the 'civilized world'?

Will you stand by me and categorically state Palestinians are full humans who deserve all basic human rights, including the right to self defence and the Universal Right of Return? Or are you still here arguing they don't deserve the same right as all other humans?

The plague spreading vermin need to be eradicated and the whole civilized world know it.
 
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Frankfooter

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True. It should atleast start there and they could may be get Israel to surrender Area C. But I think a Bantustan is better than Israeli oppression and governance. I think benefits such as freedom of movement, freedom to elect their own leaders freedom to conduct their own business etc., is more important right now.
How is that any different from Oct 6?
 
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