Will Israelis or Palestinians Win the PR War?

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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This is not a one on one school fight. Countries have allies who have interests. Is something that banal really needs to be explained?
Yes, this is a colonial, supremacist movement illegally occupying an indigenous people, taking their land and killing them with the $3.8 billion in US weapons given each year.

Its a nuclear armed state against refugees living in a concentration camp, now turned into a death camp.

 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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I said name-calling, not insult. And yes, calling a poster by something other than their handle is name-calling. You also called them "coward" and another poster "Kluutz". I only bring it up because you said you lose the argument when you start name-calling, while you are name-calling the other posters.
Considering the obsessive insults that Frank posts, I'd say it's pretty reasonable.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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This is hate speech.
Out and out racism.
...
Yes, Palestinian factions like Hamas who promote the elimination of the Jewish presence are engaged in hate speech based on their out and out racism.

I know you don't like to admit it but Palestinian polling shows they hate a One State peace, they hate a Two State peace a little less, and even before the Hamas attack, more than half of Palestinians support "attacks on Israeli civilians inside Israel".

I could call out Leimon for his generalizations but considering your posting history, he's far less of a problem in that way than you are.
 

Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
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Yes, this is a colonial, supremacist movement illegally occupying an indigenous people,
Was Jesus Christ called king of Jews or king of Palestinians?
 

versitile1

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Jan 15, 2013
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Considering the obsessive insults that Frank posts, I'd say it's pretty reasonable.
So 2 wrongs make a right in your eyes. The reason I called that poster out was because they stated, "you lose the argument when you resort to name-calling", while themselves name-calling the other posters.
 
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versitile1

Well-known member
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I could call out Leimon for his generalizations but considering your posting history, he's far less of a problem in that way than you are.
Do you see posts like this as a problem?

Um, I 100% support Israel but the endgame is going to be the removal of most Palestinians. It may take 50 years but its going to happen, with a small amount assimilating.

It and the West Bank and going to be resettled. They have to. Then the borders to the south with Egypt and Jordan can be better secured. And they will have defense in depth. Set up increased Iron Dome placements and secure Tel Aviv.

The Lebanese border and Syrian border will be threats for a while. But removing what are essentially interior security threats will go a long way.
How about posts justifying collective punishment?

If that needle is causing so much pain, then Israel is willing to accept that criticism, haystack be damned. The needle poked too many people and needs to be removed.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
How about posts justifying collective punishment?
Unfortunately the stated objective is to eliminate Hamas, not to administer punishment to Gazans. The fact that Hamas is cowardly hiding amongst the civilian populace proves that they are the cause of the collective suffering of Gazans.
 

versitile1

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Jan 15, 2013
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Unfortunately the stated objective is to eliminate Hamas, not to administer punishment to Gazans. The fact that Hamas is cowardly hiding amongst the civilian populace proves that they are the cause of the collective suffering of Gazans.
Too late. You've already tried to justify using collective punishment as well as ethnic cleansing, as shown in in your quote calling for the "haystack" (meaning Gazans) to be removed, to get the "needle" (referring to Hamas).
 
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versitile1

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Return the hostages and save thousands of lives immediately.
So you're saying the lives of thousands of Gazans are being threatened by IDF because of something Hamas did? Is that not collective punishment? What happens if it turns out the hostages are dead, should all Gazans be killed as well?
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Too late. You've already tried to justify using collective punishment as well as ethnic cleansing, as shown in in your quote calling for the "haystack" (meaning Gazans) to be removed, to get the "needle" (referring to Hamas).
As I've said. Objectively speaking there are two enemies with no intention of peace. There will not be a negotiated settlement, ot a two state solution, or a one state solution, or even a truce. Neither side wants it. And both are prepared to die about it.

So there will only be a winner. Unless you and the world are prepared to go in, disarm both sides, and PERMANENTLY have a large, UN based military force to try to keep the peace.

And remember they will also be trying to kill the new occupiers as well.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Yes, Palestinian factions like Hamas who promote the elimination of the Jewish presence
This is hate speech.
Overt racism.

 
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versitile1

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As I've said. Objectively speaking there are two enemies with no intention of peace. There will not be a negotiated settlement, ot a two state solution, or a one state solution, or even a truce. Neither side wants it. And both are prepared to die about it.

So there will only be a winner. Unless you and the world are prepared to go in, disarm both sides, and PERMANENTLY have a large, UN based military force to try to keep the peace.

And remember they will also be trying to kill the new occupiers as well.
So you want to expel all Palestinians from Israel for something Hamas did. And for something that may or may not happen.

As I've said. You support collective punishment and ethnic cleansing. Do you agree with the Israeli politician that said Canada should take in 200,000 Palestinians?
 
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Butler1000

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So you want to expel all Palestinians from Israel for something Hamas did. And for something that may or may not happen.

As I've said. You support collective punishment and ethnic cleansing. Do you agree with the Israeli politician that said Canada should take in 200,000 Palestinians?
You obviously can't separate objective opionion from partisan opinion. I'm expressing what the actual conditions are on the ground. Not wishful thinking.

And btw, where was your compassion and advocacy when 300,000 Yemeni died, when about 250,000 (and counting) Syrians died(abd theyvare doing some serious war criming to get there), Libya, and more.

I mean we are in comparison talking about 11,000 Palestinians, less than 1/2 of one percent of the population. How is that the great tragedy and genocide compared to the Muslim on Muslim sectarian violence?

Finally the Palestinians voted in Hamas knowing their charter and goals. They support terrorism in the majority. You get the govt you deserve. And have to bear the consequences.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Too late. You've already tried to justify using collective punishment as well as ethnic cleansing, as shown in in your quote calling for the "haystack" (meaning Gazans) to be removed, to get the "needle" (referring to Hamas).
Hamas is guilty of collective indifference/neglect to the people they are supposed to protect. It's even less than indifference. They are intentionally using them as worthless pawns. The only value they serve to Hamas is for the very purpose of being the haystack. Hamas created the haystack. Hamas is guilty ethnically cleansing the Gazans.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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So you're saying the lives of thousands of Gazans are being threatened by IDF because of something Hamas did?
Israel is not threatening the Gazans. Israel has threatened Hamas. Gazan lives have been threatened by Hamas' actions and tactics.

Is that not collective punishment? What happens if it turns out the hostages are dead, should all Gazans be killed as well?
No. See my post above. Israel wants to punish Hamas.

Hamas is guilty of collective abuse of the Gazans. They treat Gazan lives like dirt and by using them as human shields is proof of that. They don't give a shit how many Gazans die.
 
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