Israel at war

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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I think most business people here would admit that money is fungible.
I guess. OTOH $6B given a few weeks ago is but a drop in the bucket considering Iran's overall budget.
 

WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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I guess. OTOH $6B given a few weeks ago is but a drop in the bucket considering Iran's overall budget.
Hmmm.........it doesn't sound like a lot in Western budget terms, but it is almost 2% of Iranian GDP. The mullahs haven't exactly ushered in an era of prosperity.

So that's about $40 billion in relative Canadian terms for reference.

I'm not blaming the Biden Administration for Gaza, but I don't think there is any hope for rapprochement with Iran. I just don't buy Blinken's explanation of how the money is for this and not for that.
 
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sseth

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Nov 23, 2022
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Watching the video of the female soldier with bloodied pants and cuts on her toes (on Reddit) made me lose all sympathy for Palestinians.
I hope Israel does the right thing here, clear out the strip of all civilians (like a 24 hrs warning) and flatten the fuck out of it. Targeting known Hamas targets is not good enough. Do it like Sri Lanka did with the LTTE.
 

mandrill

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Bear in mind that all this is designed to trigger a massive, angry, emotional response from Israel and the West, which can then be exploited for propaganda and diplomatic purposes in the Middle East.

My first reaction as well was to say "Nuke 'em! They don't deserve to live!"

But I suspect that is what Hamas is trying to achieve.

Israel needs to permanently remove Hamas from Gaza while attempting to minimize civilian casualties. But easier said than done.

Hamas survives by continuing the hostility and tension between Israel and the Palestinians.

Israel is faced with a number of difficult choices. If they invade, they subject their forces to endless intifada from Hamas, which will then dissolve again into the general population. If they just bomb, they will have no way of identifying Hamas personnel and will simply inflict indiscriminate casualties.

OTOH, the situation demands massive and effective retaliation.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Does Israel have a "no negotiations" policy?

I'm guessing it does. Otherwise, hostage fees would eat up a chunk of the Israeli state budget.
Not sure, but I believe that they have had hostage/prisoner exchanges in the past.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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Hmmm.........it doesn't sound like a lot in Western budget terms, but it is almost 2% of Iranian GDP. The mullahs haven't exactly ushered in an era of prosperity.

So that's about $40 billion in relative Canadian terms for reference.

I'm not blaming the Biden Administration for Gaza, but I don't think there is any hope for rapprochement with Iran. I just don't buy Blinken's explanation of how the money is for this and not for that.
Hard to believe an oil producing country has a GDP of only $300B. It must be quite fucked up.
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
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Hard to believe an oil producing country has a GDP of only $300B. It must be quite fucked up.
Not really, the Americans and the British decided that Iran didn't deserve democracy. In 1953 the Iranians were still loyal to the Americans for getting the Soviets out of Tabriz at the Yalta Accord.

 
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Not getting younger

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Jun 29, 2022
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Bear in mind that all this is designed to trigger a massive, angry, emotional response from Israel and the West, which can then be exploited for propaganda and diplomatic purposes in the Middle East.

My first reaction as well was to say "Nuke 'em! They don't deserve to live!"

But I suspect that is what Hamas is trying to achieve.

Israel needs to permanently remove Hamas from Gaza while attempting to minimize civilian casualties. But easier said than done.

Hamas survives by continuing the hostility and tension between Israel and the Palestinians.

Israel is faced with a number of difficult choices. If they invade, they subject their forces to endless intifada from Hamas, which will then dissolve again into the general population. If they just bomb, they will have no way of identifying Hamas personnel and will simply inflict indiscriminate casualties.

OTOH, the situation demands massive and effective retaliation.
Which is exactly why Trump should never be allowed near the White House. Days like this. Arguably ours too.

What happens tomorrow and this week?
Tuesday could potentially suck.
See also Black Monday.



 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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Not really, the Americans and the British decided that Iran didn't deserve democracy. In 1953 the Iranians were still loyal to the Americans for getting the Soviets out of Tabriz at the Yalta Accord.

Great point. Except the Iranians ditched the Shah and picked Khomeini, who was even worse.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Bear in mind that all this is designed to trigger a massive, angry, emotional response from Israel and the West, which can then be exploited for propaganda and diplomatic purposes in the Middle East.

My first reaction as well was to say "Nuke 'em! They don't deserve to live!"

But I suspect that is what Hamas is trying to achieve.

Israel needs to permanently remove Hamas from Gaza while attempting to minimize civilian casualties. But easier said than done.

Hamas survives by continuing the hostility and tension between Israel and the Palestinians.

Israel is faced with a number of difficult choices. If they invade, they subject their forces to endless intifada from Hamas, which will then dissolve again into the general population. If they just bomb, they will have no way of identifying Hamas personnel and will simply inflict indiscriminate casualties.

OTOH, the situation demands massive and effective retaliation.
More violence won't help.
There were attacks by Israel in 2015, 2018 and 2021 on Gaza and more before then and none created peace.

You can't kill the entire democratically elected Hamas government and police force.
Even if Israel did kill the tens of thousands in Hamas there are still 2 million people living in Gaza who wouldn't just bow their heads and live under an apartheid blockade.

If you want peace Israel needs to deescalate for a change, not kill more people.
End the occupation or end apartheid.
 

mitchell76

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Aug 10, 2010
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But in the next few days, as Israel launches it counteroffensive to destroy Hamas, support will wane, as is always the case with Israel. The same old voices will turn on Israel. Disgusting "Pro Palestine" marches are already planned in many US cities. When that inevitably happens, remember these images. These young Israelis went to a music festival when Hamas terrorists invaded Israel and gunned them down in cold blood. Israel didn't start this, but their retribution will be fierce.
 
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