Toronto Passions

MANDATORY vaccination policy likely on its way, says Trudeau Health Minister

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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It was a rhetorical question. They reason they are exempt was the circumstances under the pandemic, an agreement was made with the government to expedite the distribution of the vaccine. Hence no extensive clinical studies were done.
But you feel no need to provide evidence to back up this assertion.
I see.

Again, rhetorical question. The FDA argued they would not have the resources, but they do. They have a 6 billion dollar budget. They judge gave them 8 months to produce the data. So basically, what they claimed was not true.
But you feel no need to provide evidence to back up this assertion.
I see.

What relevance does the flu vaccine have to this, when this change was done under the covid vaccine rollout? You would have a point if this was before covid.
But this wasn't a rhetorical question?
You're admitting you don't know the answer to this one?

Your'e seriously asking why the director of one of the biggest health institutions in the world, who promotes the vaccine at any opportunity, would need to know how many people in the organization are actually vaccinated? Really?
Why would she need to know it?
Or are you asserting that since the question was asked, the CDC has refused to ever provide that information?
 

whitehill_21

Active member
May 23, 2007
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That's an article about the study.
Luckily it has a link to the study.

But good, you actually had a non-imaginary source.
An un-reviewed retrospective study with a small absolute effect size, some selection bias issues, and the obvious survivorship bias issues.
And, as your link shows, it found better results for vaccination after infection than surviving infection alone.

But yes! It is real data that has to join all the other data to figure out the complicated interaction of infection-induced and vaccination-induced natural immunity.
And it does suggest 13x protection (not 20, I am going to assume that was drawn from the article comment about symptomatic COVID-19).
well, if you read the full report you will see 27 fold if adjusted for co-morbidities

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full
(check results section full paragraph - table 1b)
 

sp free

Well-known member
May 31, 2003
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Vaccinations do not prevent people from getting covid and thereby spreading it. What it does is prevent severe outcomes, so that is how the unvaxxed are "putting a huge strain on our healthcare system and prolonging restrictions and lockdowns" as GameBoy27 correctly stated. In Canada the unvaxxed eligible account for 13% of the population yet account for 79% of hospitalizations. So yeah, the unvaccinated ones are to blame for our overwhelmed healthcare system and prolonged lockdowns.
This is what you call mass formation psychosis.
 

Male4Strapon

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2021
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You mean a burden on the healthcare system.

This is what Ontario's hospitals would look like if everyone was vaccinated

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/this-is-...ook-like-if-everyone-was-vaccinated-1.5731469

"if all Ontarians were unvaccinated, instead of 319 COVID-19 patients in the ICU, there would be closer to 2,000 -- a situation he described as unimaginable.
“Our system would have decompensated and fallen apart weeks ago. This is just other worldly,” said Juni.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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here is more details:
...
Even better, read the actual study.
 

sp free

Well-known member
May 31, 2003
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"if all Ontarians were unvaccinated, instead of 319 COVID-19 patients in the ICU, there would be closer to 2,000 -- a situation he described as unimaginable.
“Our system would have decompensated and fallen apart weeks ago. This is just other worldly,” said Juni.
Bullshit. Check the numbers from a year ago.
 

Male4Strapon

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2021
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Bullshit. Check the numbers from a year ago.
now you’re just embarrassing yourself, he’s talking about now so to call bullshit and refer to last year’s numbers is silly and pointless.
If a meteorologist tells you it’s going to be -20 today, do you say “bullshit, check the weather from a year ago?”
 
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ShockNAwww

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2020
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This is what you call mass formation psychosis.
Vaccine Hesitant / COVID Skeptics

✅ “Decoupled from the rest of society”

✅ “Free-floating anxiety in a sense that things don’t make sense”

✅ “Attention gets focused by a leader (Rogan, Malone, Chris Sky, etc.) or series of events (lockdowns, restrictions, mask/vaccine mandates) on one small point, they literally become hypnotized and can be led anywhere.”

“This is the flu,” mRNA vaccines change genetics, spike protine shedding, Ivermectin, HCQ…


CLAIM: The concept of “mass formation psychosis” explains why millions of people believe in a mainstream COVID-19 “narrative” and trust the safety and efficacy of the vaccines.

THE FACTS: Malone highlighted the unfounded theory on a podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Joe Rogan. During the episode, Malone cast doubt on COVID-19 vaccine safety and claimed the mass psychosis has resulted in a “third of the population basically being hypnotized” into believing what Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, and mainstream news outlets say.

Malone went on to say that the phenomenon explained Nazi Germany.

“When you have a society that has become decoupled from each other and has free-floating anxiety in a sense that things don’t make sense, we can’t understand it, and then their attention gets focused by a leader or a series of events on one small point, just like hypnosis, they literally become hypnotized and can be led anywhere,” Malone said. He claimed such people will not allow the “narrative” to be questioned.

Crediting a professor in Belgium, Malone also said in a December blog post that this “mass hypnosis” explains millions of people becoming captivated by the “dominant narrative concerning the safety and effectiveness of the genetic vaccines.”

Psychology experts say there is no support for the “psychosis” theory described by Malone.

“To my knowledge, there’s no evidence whatsoever for this concept,” said Jay Van Bavel, an assistant professor of psychology and neural science at New York University who recently co-authored a book on group identities. Van Bavel said he had never encountered the phrase “mass formation psychosis” in his years of research, nor could he find it in any peer-reviewed literature.

“The concept has no academic credibility,” Stephen Reicher, a social psychology professor at the University of St Andrews in the U.K., wrote in an email to The Associated Press.

The term also does not appear in the American Psychological Association’s Dictionary of Psychology.

“Psychosis” is a term that refers to conditions that involve some disconnect from reality. According to a National Institutes of Health estimate, about 3% of people experience some form of psychosis at some time in their lives.

Richard McNally, a professor of clinical psychology at Harvard University, wrote in an email that people who support COVID-19 vaccines and public health guidance are not delusional. Rather, they are “fully responsive to the arguments and evidence adduced by the relevant scientific experts.”

Health officials have found the COVID-19 vaccines to be safe and effective — especially in terms of protecting against serious illness.

The description of “mass formation psychosis” offered by Malone resembles discredited concepts, such as “mob mentality” and “group mind,” according to John Drury, a social psychologist at the University of Sussex in the U.K. who studies collective behavior. The ideas suggest that “when people form part of a psychological crowd they lose their identities and their self-control; they become suggestible, and primitive instinctive impulses predominate,” he said in an email.

That notion has been discredited by decades of research on crowd behavior, Drury said. “No respectable psychologist agrees with these ideas now,” he said.


Multiple experts told the AP that while there is evidence that groups can shape or influence one’s behaviors — and that people can and do believe falsehoods that are put forward by the leader of a group — those concepts do not involve the masses experiencing “psychosis” or “hypnosis.”

Steven Jay Lynn, a psychology professor at Binghamton University in New York, said Malone’s argument that a group can “literally become hypnotized and can be led anywhere” is premised on a myth about hypnosis.

“His claim represents a serious misunderstanding of hypnosis and doubles down on the popular misconception that hypnosis somehow transforms people into mindless robots who think what the hypnotist wants them to think and do the hypnotist’s bidding,” Lynn said in an email. “The scientifically established fact is that people can easily resist and even oppose suggestions.”


Before the concept of “mass formation psychosis” took off in recent days, it had percolated online in recent months.

Mattias Desmet, the professor in Belgium who Malone cited for formulating the idea, did not return requests for comment. Malone also did not return a request for comment.
 
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jcpro

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Jan 31, 2014
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Bullshit. Check the numbers from a year ago.
I have to ask. It seems that the vaccines do not prevent infections nor spreading by the infected. Which means that the Omicron just does its thing unaffected. My question, in the light of that, is where is this confidence about the vaccines diminishing the symptoms coming from?
 

Male4Strapon

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Mar 16, 2021
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I have to ask. It seems that the vaccines do not prevent infections nor spreading by the infected. Which means that the Omicron just does its thing unaffected. My question, in the light of that, is where is this confidence about the vaccines diminishing the symptoms coming from?
by the huge discrepancy in severe outcomes from those with and without vaccinations. Unvaxxed require urgent care at least 2-3 times higher than the rate of vaccinated.
 
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Male4Strapon

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Mar 16, 2021
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Surgeries postponed due to severe flu cases overwhelming Toronto ICU
people getting their flu shots has always been embarrassingly low. Especially in this time of limited resources it’s more important than ever to get your flu shot too.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Where did you get it from dude ? number of fully vaccinated who are transmitting and getting sick is more than those who are not vaccinated.
Have you not read even 1 of the dozens and dozens of responses debunking that lame argument? An unvaxxed person is 8-10 times more likely to require hospitalization than a vaxxed one.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Vaccine Hesitant / COVID Skeptics

✅ “Decoupled from the rest of society”

✅ “Free-floating anxiety in a sense that things don’t make sense”

✅ “Attention gets focused by a leader (Rogan, Malone, Chris Sky, etc.) or series of events (lockdowns, restrictions, mask/vaccine mandates) on one small point, they literally become hypnotized and can be led anywhere.”
...
Just like Flat Earthers. Only difference is some clown believing the Earth is flat doesn't affect my life (other than a good laugh).
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,701
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I have to ask. It seems that the vaccines do not prevent infections nor spreading by the infected. Which means that the Omicron just does its thing unaffected. My question, in the light of that, is where is this confidence about the vaccines diminishing the symptoms coming from?
First off, Omicron does not do it's own thing. Studies have shown vaccinated and boosted people get 55-80% protection.

And saying it is ineffective is like saying the flu shot is ineffective because it doesn't stop you from getting a different strain the next year.
 
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