CupidsEscorts Tweets a Client's Information

[Phil C. McNasty]

So I guess the moral of the story is if you book with Mirage at a hotel room, make sure that room doesn't have a balcony :biggrin1:

 

[K Douglas]

I sincerely hope that all the agencies and independents in Toronto blacklist clients who threaten or harm SW's and that they are open to sharing such information with one another. Safety and privacy should be paramount in this business. I can understand Jillian's actions - she has her ladies back and I think that's commendable. Furthermore, the victim did not want police involved. However, the decision to out the client was a reaction made upon emotion as opposed to one thought out pragmatically. You could even argue it was reckless. Confidentiality issues notwithstanding, by posting this client's name, street and telephone number Jillian put her agency at tremendous risk. All it took was one nutjob follower on twitter to do a google search (Elementum apparently did so successfully) find the guy and cause him physical harm. If that had happened she might as well kiss her agency goodbye. It would be hung up in litigation for years.
Elementum (Adele G) was a vocal opponent on twitter to Jillian's decision. She even consulted her lawyer and posted the lawyer's response which I thought hit the nail on the head. I'm going to see if I can find that tweet and post it on this thread.

 

[doggee_01]

I sincerely hope that all the agencies and independents in Toronto blacklist clients who threaten or harm SW's and that they are open to sharing such information with one another. Safety and privacy should be paramount in this business. I can understand Jillian's actions - she has her ladies back and I think that's commendable. Furthermore, the victim did not want police involved. However, the decision to out the client was a reaction made upon emotion as opposed to one thought out pragmatically. You could even argue it was reckless. Confidentiality issues notwithstanding, by posting this client's name, street and telephone number Jillian put her agency at tremendous risk. All it took was one nutjob follower on twitter to do a google search (Elementum apparently did so successfully) find the guy and cause him physical harm. If that had happened she might as well kiss her agency goodbye. It would be hung up in litigation for years.
Elementum (Adele G) was a vocal opponent on twitter to Jillian's decision. She even consulted her lawyer and posted the lawyer's response which I thought hit the nail on the head. I'm going to see if I can find that tweet and post it on this thread.

However, the decision to out the client was a reaction made upon emotion as opposed to one thought out pragmatically..... well if it was the first time she did something like this i would agree but it is not the first time so sorry i don't agree with this statement

 

[Samranchoi]

@Samranchoi would you clarify what you mean by you know some agencies screen? In what way? I know Cupid’s now requires to confirm the gent is in their hotel or has a real phone number as they were getting a lot of fake bookings throwing a wrench into things and guys videotaping ladies without their consent.

For other agencies the booker generally books any known client, guys who give their handle and anyone who seems to be able to communicate enough to confirm a booking. Sometimes they have an internal bad client list, sometimes they have a look at other blacklists and add guys but most of the time that’s too much work to do. Almost anyone can book with an agency with a fake name and a Text App or email. To my knowledge it was only Cupid’s saying no Text apps now. So I don’t really believe there’s any screening being done at other mainstream agencies. (I know some of the Asian agencies insist on only seeing Asian terb members for instance but that’s not the norm)

Screening is not just asking for a random terb handle anyone can make or pretend they have. Even BM57 has pretended to me he was another terb member to try and get a booking and upon pming the member found he wasn’t the one contacting me. Generally it’s reference checking, checking the blacklists, checking if it’s a real phone number and getting their name if they don’t have a reference and some insist on verifying it.

Charlotte

My response is a bit vague as I don't want to go into great detail on what I was told

I have been a loyal client of 3 agencies and a fourth I went to because of a woman that they have on their roster. Granted I stopped seeing SP's for a long period of time but when I decided to book with agencies I had a very solid relationship with, I was asked extra questions. The reason for this is that I had a new phone number since the last time I booked with them. All I needed to do was let them know my old phone number and name and all was good. One of the four didn't even respond back to me after a couple of texts and this is an agency who always responded back to me in minutes after I texted them.

I had a long discussion with one agency owner and we discussed the process they go through when screening new clients and clients who are booking with different numbers after they have been banned by the agency. It is not always foolproof but the last line of defence is the peephole on the door which many have had to use. Screening of clients differ from agency to agency, just like with independents. I introduced myself to one Indy and while her screening was not that intensive, it gave her a solid idea of who I was and she was ok to see me.

By the way, you should post that response you gave on the pushing boundaries thread (since deleted) I still think that was one of the best posts on Terb ever. And I echo your sentiments, sigh.

 

[squeezer]

Garbage. Dont paint all agencies with the same brush my dear. Over the last ten years, no agency in the country has produced more legends and superstars than this one has done. No agency has more guys agency blacklisted than we do. We have NEVER forced any girl to see anybody that sh has blacklisted. Its her time and its her body. As far as agency blacklisting goes, just because one gil doesnt hit it off with somebody, it doesnt men all girls will not. We have guys that are blacklisted by certain girls, that are absolutely loved by others. As long as its not a safety, or aggression issue. An agency takes security to different levels than an Indy does, Most indies will book you with a couple of references. Our team will dangle you off of the fucking balcony head first. Cupids handles things one way, and Mirage another. Has been done. True story

Andy

Thank you!

Many many use hobby phones and text apps, Charlotte stop painting us all with the same brush. Using a text app and not wanting our private details out doesn't make us bad clients!

 

[Samranchoi]

So are you mostly referring to being asked for details because you're using a text app, or just a new actual phone number? One reason many have to screen is because of blacklisted guys changing their phone number, and anyone using an App could be that guy yes. I just don't think it's the same screening many of the Toronto indies now have to do because of how tricky some blacklisted guys have been, and even other SPs and trolls fake booking us. When we front all of the ad and incall costs and get burned a lot you want to protect yourself from such nonsense and extra costs when you experience blacklisted guys or fake bookings.

I was away on vacation when that thread was deleted. Which post in it and the jist of it were you referring to? I have a horrible short term memory for exactly which thread I posted which because I do post on a few at a time in the lounge. I was dissapointed as the same person that caused that thread to be deleted was the same person that caused my similar thread I started to be locked. So I'm not sure what all I posted there vs in the thread I had previously. I think boundary pushing and understanding why SPs do what they do can be an important conversation to have. There's always newbies or gents assuming something is a certain way because of x when it's actually y instead.

It was a phone number change for me as I text to make my appts. In some cases I will phone but only if something needs to be clarified with the booker

It was a long post in Jessica’s thread about pushing boundaries, sexual assault and harassment. Your post was very long and made mention of your previous sexual assault (sorry I hate mentioning it). You have many fans for the things you say here. Keep it up. I enjoy everything that you write as do many, many others.

 

[frankcastle]

So I guess the moral of the story is if you book with Mirage at a hotel room, make sure that room doesn't have a balcony :biggrin1:

If there isn't a balcony maybe you just get put through the glass

 

[peepingtom]

I will just say hearing from ladies working at a variety of agencies (not just Cupids) in general guys who are shitty to one girl aren't always reported, and when they are sometimes the booker ignores it, sometimes the booker just makes a note he can't see that girl again and he's free to see everyone else until he gets blacklisted again. There is A LOT of pressure to not be a "problem" or "sensitive" girl and have wide open menus, not be picky and always give super reviewers a good time no matter what they do in session. The agency owners hold a lot of power and some of these ladies are young, naive and not very business savvy to go out on their own so out of fear they tow the line and often put up with bad behaviour so they still get shifts. Some of my colleagues have been forced to see blacklisted guys known for demanding BBFS because they were big spenders to the Agency and felt they deserved it. As long as they were paying and apparently not roughing up the girl it was ok for the guy to be repeatedly booked by different girls. I am not saying this is the case with the Cupids client though - just about experiences many have had working at other agencies when they were new.

I'm just sharing that numerous ex agency ladies have told me that they were forced to see blacklisted guys because the agency wanted to make money and didn't think they guy was that bad just for pushing boundaries or expecting bbfs if he was paying often. Don't think your favourite agency you frequent is in the clear and "never" does this kind of thing. It's pretty pervasive that money talks here.

Also not many providers are going to want to out themselves to their assaulter just to get the police to deal with it. A colleague of mine was attacked and has to testify against the guy and it's a very scary and stressful situation. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, and it's pretty dismissive to just say "go to the police" instead of trying to warn other SPs. I do think abuse, robbery and rape trump privacy if someone is very dangerous and a repeat offender. I know a lot of guys in this thread don't really know the story very well and are assuming it was an accident or he's innocent. I don't know him but he has been reported to have pushed for BBFS many times.

Your sample is skewed. Your are using examples of ex-agencies girls who have gone indy. Of course agencies didn't work out for them for one reason or another, that's why they left the agency model of the business. In forming your opinion, have you considered agency girls who are happy with that business model and have chosen to stay with an agency despite indies encouraging them to leave?

Also, your dependence on non-app phone numbers as a good indicator that a guy is a potential good client isn't foolproof. It's very easy to buy a sim card at 7-11 with a new number.

 

[Sophia Sinclair]

Many many use hobby phones and text apps, Charlotte stop painting us all with the same brush. Using a text app and not wanting our private details out doesn't make us bad clients!

I don't think Charlotte or any of us independents that don't accept text apps are saying all people that use them are bad clients. As an independent I don't have anyone to hang someone off a balcony and have to protect myself from potentially bad clients. Unfortunately as Charlotte points out the bad guys are getting savvier at circumventing our screening process, much like pedophiles are always ahead of LE technological wise. This is why we ask other information like a Linkedin profile in lieu of references. If you rob, beat or rape me I can then take that information to LE. Isn't that the whole argument here, that his info shouldn't have been publicly leaked on social media and instead given to LE?

 

[frankcastle]

Your sample is skewed. Your are using examples of ex-agencies girls who have gone indy. Of course agencies didn't work out for them for one reason or another, that's why they left the agency model of the business. In forming your opinion, have you considered agency girls who are happy with that business model and have chosen to stay with an agency despite indies encouraging them to leave?

Also, your dependence on non-app phone numbers as a good indicator that a guy is a potential good client isn't foolproof. It's very easy to buy a sim card at 7-11 with a new number.

It would only be skewed if she tried to say that all agencies and all girls experience the same thing. Especially since she said things like "aren't always" and "sometimes" throughout her statements.

She was quite clear in saying that was the experience of some girls who left agencies.

I just read her statements as anecdotal observations.

 

[frankcastle]

Thank you!

Many many use hobby phones and text apps, Charlotte stop painting us all with the same brush. Using a text app and not wanting our private details out doesn't make us bad clients!

I don't think she was saying that using a text app makes you a bad client (just one she chooses not to see).

Someone else pointed out that this type of screening is not enough as they could get a burner phone. True. But that assumes this is the only screening tool they use.

I stick to massage parlours and backpage because it is simpler process.

 

[squeezer]

I don't think Charlotte or any of us independents that don't accept text apps are saying all people that use them are bad clients. As an independent I don't have anyone to hang someone off a balcony and have to protect myself from potentially bad clients. Unfortunately as Charlotte points out the bad guys are getting savvier at circumventing our screening process, much like pedophiles are always ahead of LE technological wise. This is why we ask other information like a Linkedin profile in lieu of references. If you rob, beat or rape me I can then take that information to LE. Isn't that the whole argument here, that his info shouldn't have been publicly leaked on social media and instead given to LE?

I would never share my personal info and you my lady were wonderful several years ago. We had an enjoyable time and you never asked for my real name nor complained about my hobby 7/11 burner phone.

 

[sempel]

Alternatively you could argue that this agency let the guy get away with stealthing. Nothing they have done is of any real, long-term consequence to this guy (especially given they have deleted the controversial tweet). In reality - this guy will simply move on to another agency and another victim. So nothing has been accomplished, except a lowering of the bar with regard to client privacy which will effect GOOD clients as well as psycho's. It would have been far better for Cupids to use back channels to discreetly warn others in the industry about this guy. By doing it publicly without involving LE, all they've done is drive the guy underground to prey on another victim. I don't applaud these actions on any level.

I have changed my position and totally agree with you. Outing (while serves the scumbag right) serves no purpose other than to sow doubt in the mind of the clientele. It starts a slippery slope of judge, jury and executioner. Granted this guy was guilty but I'm sure there's the occasional SP who may use this as a way to get back at a guy if the SP "thinks" the client has wronged her.

Both those statements are logic fails.

Starting with the first one, while I agree there is little to worry about, there is definitely some concern now. Jillian has shown that she is willing to out someone if they do something she strongly believes is wrong. While we may also agree that what he did was very wrong (I would hope so), what we consider very wrong won't always equate with what Jillian thinks is very wrong.

As for the second statement, can you imagine if we thought this way about something else? You voted for Trump, you must support banning Muslims from the country. You support abortion rights, you must support baby murder. You support X, you must support Y. The point of these examples is that they are not correlated. Plenty of people voted for Trump, but don't support his travel ban. Plenty of people believe in choice, but obviously don't support murdering babies. Boycotting Cupid's has nothing to do with what the guy did...there's no correlation. Boycotting Cupid's is a direct response to Jillian airing a client's info. Not that I'm boycotting them anyway. But certainly my respect for Jillian has gone down the toilet.

Absolutely spot on.

This type of reaction is over the top.

She has been running cupids for over 15 years.

In my past dealing with her she was professional.

In 15 years theres been how many outings?

If youve been using cupids and act accordingly you should not feel any concern.

Add to that there are spas with horriblre rep on terb yet girls continue to work there and the doors remain open despite having well regarded spas nearby. And the owners ignore the suggestions and feedback.

Bad press on terb is not as dramatic as one would think.

I can name plenty of spas that are run poorly, the service is terrible, and the places are run down, but they are still in business. Sometimes a business model, flawed big time, can make money just because it's really hard to completely screw it up. Many spas realize that most guys are not Terbites so a little bad press on here means nothing.

I don't think Charlotte or any of us independents that don't accept text apps are saying all people that use them are bad clients. As an independent I don't have anyone to hang someone off a balcony and have to protect myself from potentially bad clients. Unfortunately as Charlotte points out the bad guys are getting savvier at circumventing our screening process, much like pedophiles are always ahead of LE technological wise. This is why we ask other information like a Linkedin profile in lieu of references. If you rob, beat or rape me I can then take that information to LE. Isn't that the whole argument here, that his info shouldn't have been publicly leaked on social media and instead given to LE?

Yeah, I'd that pretty much say that nails the 15 pages of back and forth (lol). Her outing dude was bad.

 

[frankcastle]

I have changed my position and totally agree with you. Outing (while serves the scumbag right) serves no purpose other than to sow doubt in the mind of the clientele. It starts a slippery slope of judge, jury and executioner. Granted this guy was guilty but I'm sure there's the occasional SP who may use this as a way to get back at a guy if the SP "thinks" the client has wronged her.



Absolutely spot on.






I can name plenty of spas that are run poorly, the service is terrible, and the places are run down, but they are still in business. Sometimes a business model, flawed big time, can make money just because it's really hard to completely screw it up. Many spas realize that most guys are not Terbites so a little bad press on here means nothing.



Yeah, I'd that pretty much say that nails the 15 pages of back and forth (lol). Her outing dude was bad.

Anytime you use slippery slope as part of your argument you are off to a bad start.

It's one thing to say she is wrong (which I agree with) but it's another to say she will randomly out people for no reason(i.e. you are probably a decent client and therefore safe).

As for the spas that's my point.... bad press on terb is not catastrophic for a business like sex.

 

[Sophia Sinclair]

I would never share my personal info and you my lady were wonderful several years ago. We had an enjoyable time and you never asked for my real name nor complained about my hobby 7/11 burner phone.

Again, unfortunately things have changed greatly since that time and not for the better (e.g. BM57, vindictive board owners, etc.). I yearn for those simpler years! Add to that the fact that I now work from my humble abode, I think it understandable that I currently require more information, therefore assurance, from new/unknown clients. If I've seen you before it's easy peasy because all you need to do is give me your old number if you have a new one so that I can verify having seen you before and that you are in fact safe.

 

[doggee_01]

I don't think Charlotte or any of us independents that don't accept text apps are saying all people that use them are bad clients. As an independent I don't have anyone to hang someone off a balcony and have to protect myself from potentially bad clients. Unfortunately as Charlotte points out the bad guys are getting savvier at circumventing our screening process, much like pedophiles are always ahead of LE technological wise. This is why we ask other information like a Linkedin profile in lieu of references. If you rob, beat or rape me I can then take that information to LE. Isn't that the whole argument here, that his info shouldn't have been publicly leaked on social media and instead given to LE?

yes exactally....... but if i am being honest i do see merit in andy's balcony solution!

 

[sempel]

Anytime you use slippery slope as part of your argument you are off to a bad start.

It's one thing to say she is wrong (which I agree with) but it's another to say she will randomly out people for no reason(i.e. you are probably a decent client and therefore safe).

As for the spas that's my point.... bad press on terb is not catastrophic for a business like sex.

While I (and that's a big I), think I wouldn't have an issue, the "goodness" of a client is based on the SP's opinion. The "reality" of what happened is based on her report to her agency.

I totally agree with the fact that I don't really have anything to worry about and no decent respectable guy should. But for every 99 ladies that are rational, there's 1 that's irrational and what's a non-issue for most is THE issue for her. I think most guys here that are worried are more likely worried about something happening when they encounter this 1 SP versus being concerned about being outed for bad behavior because most guys on here (I believe) are decent and respectable. But once in a while a misunderstanding does occur.

 

[Sophia Sinclair]

I don't think Charlotte or any of us independents that don't accept text apps are saying all people that use them are bad clients. As an independent I don't have anyone to hang someone off a balcony and have to protect myself from potentially bad clients. Unfortunately as Charlotte points out the bad guys are getting savvier at circumventing our screening process, much like pedophiles are always ahead of LE technological wise. This is why we ask other information like a Linkedin profile in lieu of references. If you rob, beat or rape me I can then take that information to LE. Isn't that the whole argument here, that his info shouldn't have been publicly leaked on social media and instead given to LE?

yes exactally....... but if i am being honest i do see merit in andy's balcony solution!

Maybe I should PM Andy for that info.

 

[dbiz2]

I don't think she was saying that using a text app makes you a bad client (just one she chooses not to see).

I stick to massage parlours and backpage because it is simpler process.

I gave up on massage parlors MANY years ago. Backpage is a simpler process? Depends on your perspective and potential outcome

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/serial-killer-attack-killed-virginia/

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20...ho-reported-client-robbed-her-of-2k-nypd-says

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mp-killed-chopped-clients-head-arms-legs.html

 

[frankcastle]

I gave up on massage parlors MANY years ago. Backpage is a simpler process? Depends on your perspective and potential outcome

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/serial-killer-attack-killed-virginia/

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20...ho-reported-client-robbed-her-of-2k-nypd-says

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mp-killed-chopped-clients-head-arms-legs.html

Tim Bosma's tragic story hasn't stopped me from using Kijiji to sell things. If we're going to let unlikely things guide our actions we'll be paralyzed.

With MP and backpage, what I was referring to was the ease of getting what I want. I'd rather not go through the application process and book in advance SPs that ask for that type of set up. I have no problem with them using that method.