Bibi Wins, Two State Solution Dies?

[Moviefan-2]

Were they offered this plan and rejected it in a referendum ?

No. But they were offered their own state on three occasions and rejected the offers because they couldn't accept an agreement that allows the Jews to stay in the Middle East.

And that raises an interesting question about the Netanyahu video that you claim to support.

The ideas Netanyahu proposed clearly included the Jews maintaining majority control in Israel. According to you, you support what Netanyahu was saying.

So what happens to the Arabs currently living in the West Bank?

Apparently, Jordan is no longer an option for them. And many of them couldn't remain in the West Bank, or move to the area currently governed by Israel, as the new Israel would have to continue to have Jews as a majority.

So, tell us -- where is it you're proposing those large numbers of Arabs would go?

 

[Moviefan-2]

Bravo. Good point. Now you're admitting that Israeli leaders have a plan to ethnically cleanse arabs to keep a jewish majority. Fuji keeps denying that Israeli government is ethnically cleansing arabs , now you're admitting it's the plan of Israeli leaders. So this is an evidence to what I stated before : A jewish state is not a solution because it would ethnically cleanse arabs to keep a jewish majority state as you said. Which is way different than Denmark having Lutheran church as a state religion in the constitution because it doesn't come with the price of ethnically cleansing all non lutherans as Israel does with non jews . The only solution is therefore a binational jewish/arab state or a secular state.

You must be off your meds. I didn't say anything about Israel's plans or ethnic cleansing.

I asked you about your one-state proposal that you say would still allow Jews to maintain a majority in Israel. Since your one-state solution apparently includes Israel annexing the West Bank, I'm assuming you have some sort of plan for the Arabs who would be displaced.

In that old video you posted, Netanyahu said they could go to Jordan. But you insist that is no longer an option.

I repeat the question: Where is it you think they will go?

 

[basketcase]

A random poll is a reliable source and not an official universal referendum ? So Canada should give Quebec independence immediately because some online poll in Montreal Gazette , showed a majority wants to separate.

No but a major polling organization that has been doing polls for more than a decade is pretty reliable.

It's pretty obvious that you are stubbornly sticking to your guns but once again the facts are against you.

 

[Moviefan-2]

The one state solution would not be an exclusively Jewish state.

I didn't say it would be "exclusively" Jewish. But if you support what Netanyahu was saying in that video, then you apparently agree with him that the majority of Israel's population should be Jewish.

It's still not clear to me where you think the overflow of Arabs would go if not into Jordan.

 

[basketcase]

so why Israeli leaders are opposed to Palestinians joining the international court ? What are they afraid of ?...

You mean other than it becoming an organization like the UN Human Rights Council and begin an unrepentant focus on Israel while condoning slaughter in Arab countries?

The fact that the Palestinians are even allowed to join the ICC while one of their governments openly violates international law with attacks on civilians and using human shields and the other government still glorifies terrorists clearly shows there are issues with the body.

 

[Moviefan-2]

And why do you want to have a majority of jews with a price of removing the arabs ( deporting them as you suggest is ethnic cleansing) ?

Nice try. The proposal to have Israel annex the West Bank was your idea, not mine.

I certainly do insist that Israel must be predominantly Jewish. Unlike Hamas and others, I want to avoid another Holocaust.

 

[basketcase]

Nice try. The proposal to have Israel annex the West Bank was your idea, not mine....

I'm just amazed that his arguments now boil down to a video of Netanyahu from almost 40 years ago. Maybe we should also discuss what the Palestinian leadership were saying in 1978 as well.

 

[Moviefan-2]

I'm just amazed that his arguments now boil down to a video of Netanyahu from almost 40 years ago. Maybe we should also discuss what the Palestinian leadership were saying in 1978 as well.

Even worse, his argument is an erroneous extrapolation of what Netanyahu was saying.

 

[Moviefan-2]

...the only solution is either binational jewish/arab state or secular/neutral inclusive to all citizens.

By the way, you say we can't trust the polls. Would you care to tell us the basis for thinking your proposals would work?

 

[basketcase]

In democracy only a universal referendum is an evidence not polls. In that case we don't need federal elections this year, we just rely on CBC polls to elect a prime minister.

Do you have a universal referendum stating you are sane?

 

[fuji]

The ones born in the west bank after 1967 don't have Jordanian citizenship. The west bank is no longer part of Jordan

Neither is it part of Israel. Making it part of Jordan and granting them Jordanian citizenship is the best solution. Jordan can be pressured to take them back.

 

[fuji]

so why Israeli leaders are opposed to Palestinians joining the international court ?

Because it is undemocratic, controlled by dictatorships, and ripe for abuse. We have seen what cabals of dictators did to UNHRC and they will likely do the same to the ICC.

I note they you have run away from your claim of ethnic cleansing, you can't substantiated that so you segued to this different topic.

We can add that there is no ethnic cleansing underway in Gaza to the list of topics you have run away from.

 

[fuji]

The one state solution would not be an exclusively Jewish state.

Then it would fail to prevent Arab violence against Jews and is therefore not an option.

 

[fuji]

In democracy only a universal referendum is an evidence not polls. In that case we don't need federal elections this year, we just rely on CBC polls to elect a prime minister.

I trust we will never see you citing any polls in any debate anywhere. I bet a brief search of your posting history will prove that you yourself have in fact cited polls before.

This post more than any other shows that you ate a clown who will say pretty much any stupid thing in order to hate a Jew.

 

[fuji]

So according to Fuji, and Moviefan it's totally acceptable to deport Arabs or ethnically cleanse them to keep a jewish majority in Israel.

You lie about absolutely everything. You have zero credibility. Blatantly lying about what people have posted helps prove my hypothesis: something about the Palestinian cause attracts liars.

Don't think we haven't noticed your MO.

 

[Moviefan-2]

So according to Fuji, and Moviefan it's totally acceptable to deport Arabs or ethnically cleanse them to keep a jewish majority in Israel.

Nonsense.

I have said Israel must remain a Jewish state.

But the questions about the Arabs in the West Bank are related to your proposal that Israel annex the West Bank and your assertion that you agree with Bibi that Israel must remain a Jewish state. The questions about the Arabs in the West Bank come from your proposal and assertions, not mine.

 

[fuji]

I said I agree with Nentanyahu that one state solution is the way to go,

You don't agree with him. You just lie constantly.

You have repeatedly lied about what he says, you lied when you claimed he said there would never be a Palestinian state and your are lying now.

He discussed negotiations splitting the West bank between Israel and Jordan which is in no way the one state solution you propose.

You have also repeatedly run from the point that your one state solution is impossible because Arabs would engage in violence against Jews without IDF to stop them.

 

[toguy5252]

I said I agree with Nentanyahu that one state solution is the way to go, But I also said that a jewish state isn't a solution to the conflict because it would keep fighting to defend its Jewishness , so the only solution is a binational jewish -arab state or a secular state inclusive to all its citizens.

Netanyahu has never endorsed a none state solution and Israelis have no interest in it. it is the wet dream of a certain faction among the Palestinians hoping that what they cannot do politically, militarily or trough terrorism they can do demographically. i do not believe that most Palestinians want this either. i believe that most Palestinians want a sovereign state abutting Israel where they can have a better life for themselves and their families and live in peace. regrettably the will of most Palestinians has never bee of any particular importance to their leaders or Arab bretherin.

And by the way Israel is a secular state although a lot of the laws are based upon the Jewish religion and tradition just as a lot of laws in Canada and the US and elsewhere are based on Judeo Christian traditions and religion. Do you think it is coincidental that December 25 is a holiday? Or Goof Friday.

 

[toguy5252]

Yes but Canada doesn't present itself as a national state for Anglican christians.

Israel has always apologetically held itself out to be the homeland of the Jewish people. Read the UN resolution. It is the only truly democratic secular state in the entire middle east. Instead of just spouting the talking points that you and your friends are so fond of why don't you take the trouble to look at life as it is in Israel. Not perfect for sure but for its Muslim and Christian citizens much more freed om than any other country in the middle east.

 

[toguy5252]

Israel isn't a democracy because most of arabs who live under Israeli control don't have the right for voting. You can argue that a a minority are allowed to but the majority are kept stateless for not being jewish. So to keep the state jewish, you can allow a minority of arabs to vote as long as they don't exceed 20%, while keeping 4 millions stateless and fence them to preserve the Jewishness of the state . So a jewish state comes with a price of denying rights to 4 millions of arabs.
As you can see from Moviefan comments he was suggesting to deport or ethnically cleanse the arabs in the west bank so that Israel keeps a jewish majority.

Every Israeli citizen of every faith and nationality has a vote. Just ask any of Arab MK's or the Arabs and other who voted for them. you can keep making that idiotic argument about the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza but you just continue to embarrass yourself. Why don't you point out all (or any) of the countries which allow non-citizens to vote in their elections.