Bibi Wins, Two State Solution Dies?

[Frankfooter]

It's even harder to find anyone in Hamas who will say anything at all about "Israelis," as that would be acknowledging Israel's existence. In the Hamas charter, there are only references to Jews and Zionists.

Nonetheless, we can at least agree that there is no evidence that any Hamas leader has ever denounced Jew hatred. Hamas is the same Jew-hating terrorist organization it has always been.

It might be an issue with calling Israel the 'Jewish state'.
Now that you're demanding Israel be identified with only one race you risk international confusion between the acts of the state and the people.
Bombing Gaza risked being conflated with the Jewish people, as are all actions of the Netanyahu government.
If I were you and I was worried about anti-semitism I'd fight against linking Netanyahu's actions with that of the Jewish people.

Of course racism against any people is bad, which is why I'm as against defining Israel for only one race as Palestine.

Are you ready to call out Israeli politicians for racism now that you've had your say?

 

[basketcase]

The Hamas agent you posted above sounded racist, but others have stated that they are fighting the occupiers.
Racism is bad, of course.

Of course what you chose to avoid is Hamas consider all of Israel occupied territory.

Hamas moderates call for the elimination of Israel. The average member calls Jews the 'sons of apes and pigs'. These are the people who the Palestinians elected to the legislature. You have been going on endlessly about Netahyahu who got 23% of votes and has been unable to form a coalition yet avoid discussing what Hamas being elected says about Palestinians and the peace process.

 

[basketcase]

It might be an issue with calling Israel the 'Jewish state'....

Once again a pathetic justification of hatred.

Hamas now is open about their motivations and they are the same ones espoused by Arab leaders in the 1930's.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Now that you're demanding Israel be identified with only one race you risk international confusion between the acts of the state and the people.

Nonsense. I'm trying to help you learn something about the terrorists you're so eager to defend.

Hamas' issues are not about Israeli policies or Netanyahu. Hamas hates the Jews for being Jewish.

 

[fuji]

Lets be clear here.
The IDF general stated that he said more civilians would die the next time Israel decides to attack Gaza.

And then YOU LIED and claimed he said civilians would be targeted, because you are a blatant pathological liar and nothing you say can be trusted. You lie constantly.

His IDF soldiers have stated that it is policy to target civilians

No they didn't.

Some partisan political organization has made an unproven and unsubstantiated allegation that soldiers said that, but they refuse to provide the evidence and refuse to put what was said in context. There is presently no reason to believe the allegation.

Israel prosecutes and jails anyone who targets civilians, if the activists had any real proof they could and would have launched a criminal case. They refuse to provide their "evidence" because it will turn out to be a misrepresentation.

 

[Frankfooter]

Hamas' issues are not about Israeli policies or Netanyahu.

On the contrary:

Hamas ties ceasefire to end of Gaza border blockade, while Israel calls for end of rocket strikes

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/1...gyptian-officials-about-ceasefire-with-hamas/

Their demands were about Israeli policies.

 

[fuji]

Ceasefire in exchange for ending the blockade, hilarious. They just want to get better missiles and rockets from Iran before they resume firing. They don't like that the stuff they have now is mostly not getting through Iron Dome and they want guided missiles that can.

Of course grog things that would be wonderful too and can't think of a single reason why Israel would object.

 

[Moviefan-2]

On the contrary:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/1...gyptian-officials-about-ceasefire-with-hamas/

Their demands were about Israeli policies.

Nonsense.

As Fuji noted in the post above, all they were looking for was improved opportunities to launch terrorist attacks. Remember what happened when Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005.

In fact, Hamas' response to Israel's withdrawal in 2005 confirms that the terrorists don't really care about policies such as the borders.

 

[Frankfooter]

Ceasefire in exchange for ending the blockade, hilarious. They just want to get better missiles and rockets from Iran before they resume firing. They don't like that the stuff they have now is mostly not getting through Iron Dome and they want guided missiles that can.

Of course grog things that would be wonderful too and can't think of a single reason why Israel would object.

Nonsense.

As Fuji noted in the post above, all they were looking for was improved opportunities to launch terrorist attacks. Remember what happened when Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005.

In fact, Hamas' response to Israel's withdrawal in 2005 confirms that the terrorists don't really care about policies such as the borders.

I see, so the both of you will claim its racism no matter what they say.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...he-worlds-largest-outdoor-prison-8567611.html

There's nothing about the situation in Gaza that anyone in Gaza should be unhappy about?
Are you really claiming that life there is so good that any unhappiness with the armed guards on their walls is just racism?

Weak.

 

[fuji]

I see, so the both of you will claim its racism no matter what they say.

The only thing Hamas can say that will make a difference is that they are disarming and that they will recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

They are terrorists.

You seen to think that their violence against Jews is no big deal and should not be an obstacle to peace. You defend them. You justify their terrorism as "resistance".

 

[Frankfooter]

The only thing Hamas can say that will make a difference is that they are disarming and that they will recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

They are terrorists.

You seen to think that their violence against Jews is no big deal and should not be an obstacle to peace. You defend them. You justify their terrorism as "resistance".

But so is Israel.
Israel targets civilians as we've shown, that's terrorism as well.


Why do you say Israel has a right to defend itself but don't accept that Gaza has a right to defend itself?

 

[fuji]

But so is Israel.
Israel targets civilians as we've shown, that's terrorism as well.

Why do you say Israel has a right to defend itself but don't accept that Gaza has a right to defend itself?

Hamas targeting civilians is not defending itself. Israel does not target civilians.

 

[Frankfooter]

Hamas targeting civilians is not defending itself. Israel does not target civilians.

Israel targets civilians, in fact more so or more accurately then Hamas does.
Self-defence isn't a legit defence for an occupying power.

 

[fuji]

Israel targets civilians, in fact more so or more accurately then Hamas does.
Self-defence isn't a legit defence for an occupying power.

Full on blatant lying. Even the baseless breaking the silence nonsense does not claim that, you are a fucking liar.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Are you really claiming that life there is so good that any unhappiness with the armed guards on their walls is just racism?

I'm guessing you're not familiar with Lincoln's line about the man who murdered his parents and then pleaded for mercy because he's an orphan.

Life in Gaza is far from ideal, but it's the Palestinians who are responsible for the way things are today.

The Israelis withdrew from Gaza. The borders were opened up and resources were provided to help the Palestinians create a prosperous society. Instead, the Palestinians used the open borders and the new resources to escalate their terrorist attacks on Israel.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...fd2b48-1d83-11e4-82f9-2cd6fa8da5c4_story.html

The Palestinians squandered the opportunity to create a prosperous society because they were fixated on killing Jews.

Not all Palestinians felt this way. Some really wanted to create a new society for Palestinians. But the Palestinians who prefer to see all efforts go towards attacking Jews was significantly large enough to help elect Hamas and support its Jew-hating terrorism.

 

[Frankfooter]

Full on blatant lying. Even the baseless breaking the silence nonsense does not claim that, you are a fucking liar.

I'm basing that on Israel's 70% civilian casualty rate with Hamas' 10% or so.
Israel has the most modern weapons available, the most modern drone spyware and guided weapons yet still killed 70% civilians.
The only way they could kill that many with those weapons is by aiming them at civilians.
As reported by BTS.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...g-silence-rules-engagement-civilian/26868281/

 

[basketcase]

I see, so the both of you will claim its racism no matter what they say.....

Just because you feel the need to justify Hamas actions by ignoring the disgusting things they say doesn't make your point any more true. They are 100% clear that they will never accept peace with Israel and repeatedly call out Jews, not Israelis for all sorts of racist crap.

 

[fuji]

I'm basing that on Israel's 70% civilian casualty rate with Hamas' 10% or so.

A number you got from Hamas via their collaborators in UNRWA?

Except your claim was that Israel accurately targets civilians. Even the bogus BTS report only accuses Israel of not doing enough to distinguish civilians from militant targets.

You just made that up, blatant lying.

Israel's effective use of modern weapons is why so few people were killed despite the massive number of strikes. Compare to any similar conflict, like Syria, or the Iraq war, or Vietnam, where typically hundreds of thousands die. The total number dead all the way back to 1947 is lower than what, a month in any of those conflicts?

IDF has a better record of minimizing casualties then any other military including Canada and the US.

The primary reason there are still civilian casualties is Hamas use of human shields, and Hamas, not Israel, is to blame for that.

 

[Frankfooter]

A number you got from Hamas via their collaborators in UNRWA?

So now the UN are Hamas collaborators?
You are an idiot.

BTS gives multiple IDF testimony saying they were told to shoot anyone, including civilians.
That's targeting.

 

[fuji]

So now the UN are Hamas collaborators?

Absolutely. UNRWA clearly allowed Hamas to operate from its facilities. Reporters exposed the truth that Hamas fired from UNRWA hospitals, built tunnels with UNRWA materials, used a UNRWA clinic as a tunnel entrance, used UNRWA buildings as ammo dumps.

There is just no other explanation, a rocket being launched from a hospital parking lot is VERY noticible yet UNRWA did not object.

BTS gives multiple IDF testimony saying they were told to shoot anyone, including civilians.

Who knows if that is true BTS refused to back up these unsubstantiated allegations, moreover open fire rules are NOT targeting, at worst just failure to avoid civilian casualties and not even that if there are good reasons to believe no civilians are present.