Best QB to ever play in the NFL Super Bowl era

rld

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Tom Brady VS Joe Montana
Watching both of these guys play in the NFL there is no doubt in my mind that Tom Brady is just as good if not better than Joe Montana and the statistics prove the same. There are no other QB's in the NFL in the super bowl era that compare to these two in achievements in both categories (statistics regular season, statistics post season)

Joe Montana
Seasons: 16
Passing Yards: 40,551
TD: 273
INT: 139
Passer Rating: 92.3
SB Wins: 4 NFL record
SB Appearance: 4
Playoff Wins: 16 NFL record

Tom Brady
Seasons: 12
Passing Yards: 39,979
TD: 300
INT: 115
Passer Rating: 96.4
SB Wins: 3
SB Appearance: 5 NFL record
Playoff Wins: 16 NFL record

These two not only did they win multiple super bowls and were great clutch QB's but also had a lot of success in the regular season and are looked upon when assessing QB success in the NFL.
You keep going back to the statistical argument when you know that the rules and game has changed so much between those eras that it is a flawed approach. There are a ton of ways to normalize the data and compare between eras, but for some reason you just keep refusing to do so. I can't understand why you won't even make the effort.

Here are the career stats for yards per completion which amply demonstrate how the game has changed:

http://www.databasefootball.com/leaders/career_psydcom.htm
 

shack

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In no particular order, the list is limited to (by my decree):

Brady
Manning (elder)
Favre
Montana
Marino
Unitas
 

Rockslinger

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Quite a few replies. Here is the flip side of the question.

Who is the best QB to never win the Super Bowl? Answer: Dan Marino. He lost his one and only Super Bowl at the age of 23 and never got a second chance.
 

Don

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I liked Elway too but Elway had a better team than average he had Terrell Davis, Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, and a pretty good defense to play with. He also went to 5 SB's and only winning 2.
Right, I mentioned that he was on talented teams towards the END of his career. Hence why his better years statistically were towards the end of his career. But for most of his career (pre-Shanahan) he was on average teams. I mention this because people talk about how Elway's stats overall don't look so great and he is only 2 for 5 in SB's. He was 0 for 3 early because again, he was on average teams. When he was on talented teams, he was 2 for 2. He is one of those players who is better than his numbers make him out to be.
 

Smash

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So boys... Where does Eli fit in when talking about "great" QB's?
2 SB appearances against the best team (best QB) in the league and he comes through both times in clutch situations. Pretty amazing, great closer
 

rld

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So boys... Where does Eli fit in when talking about "great" QB's?
2 SB appearances against the best team (best QB) in the league and he comes through both times in clutch situations. Pretty amazing, great closer
If you look at the current era there are two sure hall of famers. Peyton and Brady.

Then you have a second tier of potential Hall of fame guys with Eli, Big Ben and Brees.

Of the second tier guys I think Eli has the edge over the other two based on what they have done to date. Eli and Ben are tied for Super Bowls, but Eli was a bigger factor in winning his two then Ben in his first one, and Eli has two superbowl MVP awards.

But none of these guys are done yet...
 

bigdik

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Terry Bradshaw has 212 TD to 210INT not the most accurate passer
Terry Bradshaw has FOUR Super Bowl rings - SB record - 4-0
Joe Montana has FOUR Super Bowl rings - SB record - 4-0

The ring is what they all play for.
Well, that, the $$$$$$, and the pussy.:cool:
 

bigdik

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Right, I mentioned that he was on talented teams towards the END of his career. Hence why his better years statistically were towards the end of his career. But for most of his career (pre-Shanahan) he was on average teams. I mention this because people talk about how Elway's stats overall don't look so great and he is only 2 for 5 in SB's. He was 0 for 3 early because again, he was on average teams. When he was on talented teams, he was 2 for 2. He is one of those players who is better than his numbers make him out to be.
You don't get the chance to lose 3 SB's playing on AVERAGE teams.:rolleyes:
 

bigdik

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Quite a few replies. Here is the flip side of the question.

Who is the best QB to never win the Super Bowl? Answer: Dan Marino. He lost his one and only Super Bowl at the age of 23 and never got a second chance.
And the flipside of the flipside.

Worst QB to ever win a Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer, though the answer would come from SB XXXV regardless of the winner.

Brady's legacy as a big game QB is severely tarnished. He beat Jake Delhomme in XXXVIII, and only won XXXIX because of pathetic game management by Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb. He's a very good QB, but he's overrated.:p
 

rld

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Eli is 2-0 against Brady. He made two memorable throws in SB 42 and SB 46 to put his teams in a position to win while Brady failed to connect with Wes Walker in SB 46 to ice the game. So why is Brady a sure hall of famer while Eli is in a so-called second tier of potential HOF? Brady pads up his stats with several RAC plays during the regular season. But when it mattered the most, Eli beat him up. If I had a vote, it will go to Eli before Brady.
Oh, I don't know, because Brady has three rings, five appearances, a perfect regular season, and waaaaaaaaaaaay more wins, yards and TDs than Eli?

And the Hall of Fame isn't decided on head to head match-ups last time I checked. If Eli does this for a while longer I might put him ahead of Brady, but it is far too soon for that.

And to be honest, did Brady really fail to connect with Welker, or did Welker not catch a very catchable ball?

I put Eli on the next level because I am not certain he will get in. I can pretty much guarantee you the other two guys will.
 

bendova

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Eli didn't make those two catches. He's just lucky each time that his receivers made unbelievable catches or he would be 0-2 in Super Bowls
 

Smash

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Now, who would I take in a big game?

#1 Montana
#2 Marino
#3 Peyton M
#4 Bree's
#5 Eli M
After yesterdays performance I have to adjust my picks.
So difficult to rate a QB becus there's so much factors that go into winning a SB, not just QB talent.
 

rld

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I am not saying Tom Brady does not belong in the HOF. He does. But Eli is 3-1 in head to head match ups, including 2 SB wins. In all 3 wins, Eli drove his team to victory in the dying moments of the 4th quarter. So while their careers are not over, I will at this moment vote for Eli before Brady.

And while statistics are important, they are not everything. There is a wide receiver by name of Mark Clayton who averaged 58 receptions, 900 yards and 8.4 touchdowns a year. He is not in the HOF. There is another wide receiver by name of Lynn Swann who averaged 37 receptions, 600 yards and 5.6 touchdowns a year. He is in the HOF on account of some incredible catches during SBs.
As discussed earlier in the thread, Mark Clayton played after three critical rule changes that made passing easier:

1) number of games in a season
2) the Mel Blount Rule
3) new o-line rules for holding.

So, once again you are getting into a cross era comparison problem. Brady and Eli are effectively rules contemporaries.

But on the central issue I look at it this way. I have 0% doubt that Brady and Manning will get into the Hall of Fame. None at all.

Now, if Eli goes back to be an average passer, and a turnover machine (which I don't think will happen) he might not get in.

Do you have any doubt Brady and Peyton will go in?

Do you think there is any chance at all Eli will not get in?
 

rld

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Lynn Swann had 5462 yards over 9 years, while his team mate John Stallworth had 8723 yards over 14 years. But everybody rates Lynn Swann the better WR purely on account of his incredible catches during the 4 SBs.

Right now, Tom Brady's star has dimmed while Eli's is shining brightly. Brady, Peyton and Eli will all get in the HOF. I have no doubt. But at this very moment, you cannot make a credible argument that Brady - or Peyton for that matter - is a better QB than Eli. No way. Peyton had a chance to drive his team to a game tying TD against NO in SB 44 and what did he do? He threw an interception. Brady had a chance in both head to head SBs against Eli to score and he failed both times. Eli would have delivered if he had been on the other end. No doubt. And BTW, were it not for the ridiculous tuck rule, Brady would have 2 SB rings. Same as Eli.

The Gmen were a wild card team in 2007. They went on the road to defeat #4 seed TB, #1 seed GB and #2 seed Cowboys. And then topped it off by beating the undefeated 18-0 Patriots in SB 42.

Just to get to the playoffs this year, the Gmen had to win their last two games against the loud-mouthed Jets (I hate those guys!) and the Cowboys. During the playoffs, the Gmen demolished the Falcons, then went on the road to defeat the defending champion and #1 seed GB and the #2 seed 49ers.

The point I am making, which no objective observer can contest at this stage, is that Eli, seemingly with ice water in his veins, is the biggest pressure cooker QB in the NFL right now. He is the Reggie Jackson of the NFL. And it is on that consistent basis that I rate him higher than Brady and Peyton. And in the HOF ahead of those guys. Case closed.
I always think people who type "case closed" are just really amusing.

Stallworth and Swann were drafted in the same year (generally thought to be one of the greatest draft classes of all time). Thus with playing five more years, all five of those years were after the rule changes. They are both in the HOF. They were also different kinds of recievers. Swann was a long ball specialist, and Stallworth, especially in the last few years was a possession guy.

To tell you the truth, anyone who thinks career wise Eli is better than Brady is just blowing smoke. By, wins, yards, championships, etc, Brady is the better player.

Now the "pressure cooker" comment is interesting, because you say "right now." There is no doubt that Eli was the best fourth quarter qb in the NFL this year. That is this year.

Last year he was a turnover machine.

To speculate Eli would have delivered had he been on the other end, is just childish speculation. And whining about the tuck rule is just funny. If the 49ers did not have an injured kick returner...and so on. In fact Eli would have have been in the playoffs if he was in a good division. All just hot air.

And if you take just a couple of minutes to actually look at career stats, you will see Eli is still well behind Brady.

I can't make a credible argument about Peyton right now...because I don't know what his health situation is. But his numbers far exceed Eli's on a career basis.

And I thought you might enjoy this excellent article on why Eli is not better than Payton, career wise:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...why-eli-manning-still-isnt-better-than-peyton
 

doggystyle99

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You would have to be a complete idiot to think career wise Eli Manning is better than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

Case closed
 

Smash

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Tom Brady has been feasting throughout his career on 6 games every year against the hapless Bills, the woeful Dolphins and, until the last two years, the wretched Jets. Meanwhile, Eli has been up against the ferocious Eagles defence and dynamic Cowboys. Only the Redskins were gimmes.

I will take Eli. The only thing Brady has going for him is Gisele Bundchen. Other than that, he is an average QB.
I agree... For years I thought Brady was overrated. I think he a good QB but not a elite QB. I've always thought Peyton was the better of the two and still the best in the league (when healthy).

Brady definitely will get in the HOF but I wouldn't put him in the top 5 QB's of all time for all around ability.
 
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