I agree with you that when it comes to talent wise Dan Marino by far was the best QB to ever play the game. The only decent players he ever had on his offense was Mark Duper and Mark Clayton and everyone else that he played with was either average or below average and he made them just that much better.Dan Marino is the best quarterback of all-time. If he and Don Shula had an average defence then he would've won a series of Superbowls.
I liked Elway too but Elway had a better team than average he had Terrell Davis, Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, and a pretty good defense to play with. He also went to 5 SB's and only winning 2.I have a soft spot for Elway. His teams were pretty average. He was the one real superstar and he led Denver to division crowns and superbowls in the early years strictly because of his talents alone. When he finally got some talent towards the end of his career and a coach who installed an offense around his talents, his number improved dramatically. He had his best statistical years in his mid-to-late 30's.
Montana's teams were loaded. Brady is very good but he never had to do as much as Elway.
One of the reasons I don't put Aikman or Bradshaw in there is that collectively the teams they played on was so much more superior than others.So are we just talking about QB's who played in the super bowl or QB's in general since the 2 leagues merged?
I have to say Dan Marino was the best QB during his time in the league.Never won a SB but had so many records when he retired.These records stood for so long.
Now for QB's that played just in the SB.Gotta go( in no order) Brady,Aikmen,Bradshaw,Montana.
While I am a big fan of Big Ben, it is far too soon to say.what about Ben Roethlisberger?? has been in the league 7 yrs and has been to 3 superbowls winning two. There is no doubt that hes not only the toughest qb in the nfl but probably the toughest player in the nfl.
That actually cuts both ways. If you have a great defense and running game, then you don't need to throw as much or as well. That is why stats are really tricky in this argument. The game is called differently, which impacts a QBs stats, but not his talent or ability. Some people say Ferguson was a pretty good QB but his numbers are shit because he was handing off to OJ so much.One of the reasons I don't put Aikman or Bradshaw in there is that collectively the teams they played on was so much more superior than others.
Bradshaw had the privilege of playing with the best defense in that decade when he won the 4 SB's as well as Lynn Swann, and Franco Harris.
Aikman played with Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Darryl Johnston as well as a very good defense and also a guy named Deion Sanders both on his defense and his special teams.
I have to agree with you about Eli. Couple of years ago I thought he was destined for mediocrity. Now I am very impressed. Would like to see him do it for a few more years.Performance of Brady and Montana cannot be questioned. Those are great and very successful QBs. But what my eye tells me watching all these QBs is that Peyton Manning is the most technically astute QB. Aside from Dan Marino and to some extent John Elway, none of the others makes/made the throws he delivers. And Eli is getting up there. The TD throw he made to Mario Manningham in heavy traffic in the NFC Championship game is an all time classic bang bang play.
Joe Montana was the best clutch QB in my mind. When he came on the field in clutch situations he know he was gonna put his team in a position to win the game and so did the other team and there was nothing they were gonna do to stop him.That actually cuts both ways. If you have a great defense and running game, then you don't need to throw as much or as well. That is why stats are really tricky in this argument. The game is called differently, which impacts a QBs stats, but not his talent or ability. Some people say Ferguson was a pretty good QB but his numbers are shit because he was handing off to OJ so much.
So you argue that Montana does not belong on that list but put Young on the list. They both played in the same west coast offense with a lot of short to medium passing plays. For any QB to be able to win 4 SB's you have to be able to throw the ball down the field.This is a very vexing question, but one that is great to kick around. I played football (LB and OL) for 14 years and coached for about a dozen and have seen many games by all of the QBs discussed above.
First thing first is that it is impossible, and perhaps unfair to compare all of the Superbowl era QBs together. When the SB era started and until 1977 (I think) they only played 14 regular season games.
Perhaps more importantly the passing rules were greatly liberalized around 1978 or so. The passed the Mel Blount rule that prohibited downfield contact and changed the rules for holding on the O-line that made it a great deal easier to pass block. It is no surprise that almost all of the names mentioned played in the 16 game, liberalized rules era. The game has really changed.
But having thought about it I could put together a list of QBs that I think are truly elite, having seen them all play at least 20 games. They would include:
Bradshaw
Staughbuck (sp?)
Marino
Brady
Manning
Elway
Young
I think Warren Moon is on the edge of the group, as is Tarkenten, but I did not see Tark enough to come to a good conclusion about him. The only reason Fouts is not on my list is that I think some mobility is required to make the greatest all time list.
There are some guys playing right now who we might be able to add to the list, but it is too soon to say.
You will notice Montana is not on the list. I watched him play for years, and despite his success I never saw him as being really talented. He was to my mind a real dink and dunk QB and never impressed me.
Statistics are useful but for a number of reasons quite limiting. And personally I think the NFL passer rating system is deeply flawed.
Now picking the all time best out of that list is almost impossible for me.
So you argue that Montana does not belong in the category of elite QB's because he dink and donked but then put think Favre belongs in that category.I couldn't really argue with that.
I didn't say he was the "Best" I said I didn't think one could argue that he belongs in the discussion with other elite quarterbacks. Do you?So you argue that Montana does not belong in the category of elite QB's because he dink and donked but then put think Favre belongs in that category.
Favre played with some of the best receivers in YAC Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver.
I think Young was a far better physical talent than Joe. He ran well, had a great throwing motion. All the tools. Still don't have the love for Joe, to my mind he threw the ball to his backs way too much.So you argue that Montana does not belong on that list but put Young on the list. They both played in the same west coast offense with a lot of short to medium passing plays. For any QB to be able to win 4 SB's you have to be able to throw the ball down the field.
Playing 14 years of football doesn't teach you anything about evaluating talent in the NFL level specailly when you are playing on high school teams and university teams.
I think Dan Marino talent wise was the best QB to ever play the game and Drew Brees right behind him and Peyton Manning right behind Brees.Performance of Brady and Montana cannot be questioned. Those are great and very successful QBs. But what my eye tells me watching all these QBs is that Peyton Manning is the most technically astute QB. Aside from Dan Marino and to some extent John Elway, none of the others makes/made the throws he delivers. And Eli is getting up there. The TD throw he made to Mario Manningham in heavy traffic in the NFC Championship game is an all time classic bang bang play.
I didn't state how many years I played football to try to make my opinion seem justifiable but the first thing you stated "I played football (LB and OL) for 14 years and coached for about a dozen and have seen many games by all of the QBs discussed above."I think Young was a far better physical talent than Joe. He ran well, had a great throwing motion. All the tools. Still don't have the love for Joe, to my mind he threw the ball to his backs way too much.
Well if you want to discuss qualifications, I am happy to discuss mine in detail. But let's start with yours. What are your qualifications to evaluate football talent? Anything beyond simple hero worship of Brady?
Again you say Montana does not belong in the elite category but you put Favre in there who had some of the best YAC receivers in Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver. Your argument does not stand up.I think Young was a far better physical talent than Joe. He ran well, had a great throwing motion. All the tools. Still don't have the love for Joe, to my mind he threw the ball to his backs way too much.
Well if you want to discuss qualifications, I am happy to discuss mine in detail. But let's start with yours. What are your qualifications to evaluate football talent? Anything beyond simple hero worship of Brady?
A good effort. You are right, I don't like Joe. Don't have a problem with Brady. Quite fond of that Welker fellow actually. I didn't even mention the whole "cheating issue" like some people do with Brady.Again you say Montana does not belong in the elite category but you put Favre in there who had some of the best YAC receivers in Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver. Your argument does not stand up.
The only thing that Young did better than Montana was run the ball more successful.
You have hate for Joe as well as Brady and your biased opinion shows.
Young was a far better physical specimen than Joe, had a better arm and a better throwing motion.Again you say Montana does not belong in the elite category but you put Favre in there who had some of the best YAC receivers in Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver. Your argument does not stand up.
The only thing that Young did better than Montana was run the ball more successful.
You have hate for Joe as well as Brady and your biased opinion shows.
Not pissed at all just stating the facts.Young was a far better physical specimen than Joe, had a better arm and a better throwing motion.
Does this mean that you concede you have no experience or qualifications for analyzing football talent? I guess you got so pissed at the statistical issues you could not deal with you went way back looking for something to hang your hat on.
Nope, just thought your statistical approach to anoint Brady as the best every was unrealistic and failed to take into account the changes in the game over the era you chose to discuss.Not pissed at all just stating the facts.
You try very hard to get into arguments with people you don't agree with. Good luck but you are not gonna get it here.
Lol, I remember after that stupid trade I payed my bookie a visit EVERY Sunday and put $100. down on Bree's and the Saints to cover ANYBODY and they did. My bookie eventually told me he cant take my bets anymore cus I won 5 straight games from him. He gave me an excuse that I had to bet on more then one game going forward.hahaSan Diego choosing Philip Rivers ahead of him has got to be one of the all time bone headed decisions.
