What Everyone Gets Wrong About Tulsi Gabbard

[Butler1000]

Ahh, the good old "the deep state guardrails will stop him, so it is fine that he tries for it actually," angle. After all, the Elites fucked up enough that the people want it, so it is good."

No, I think in the end the actual good people in Congress, govt positions, and the military just would not follow illegal orders. Or let it happen. And the majority of the good people of the USA would see it for what it was.

I have more faith I guess in the common people. But it tends to be Elites that panic when any push back on their agenda occurs.

 

[Valcazar]

You raise a good point. But it looks like the first line of checks - the congress, especially the senate - has bowed.

And you forget how many of the guardrails bowed and took damage in the first term.

Even if you believed the guardrails would always stop him, "Look, he failed last time, so it is only right to let him try again" is a dumb approach to things.
It only makes sense if you either agree with his goals or you figure the magic guardrail fairies will make it so that only the things you don't like in government will be damaged, and everything else will be good.
Or that once the wrecking ball hits, the new world order that replaces it will align with your desires.

 

[Butler1000]

You raise a good point. But it looks like the first line of checks - the congress, especially the senate - has bowed. I mean a guy who never ran anything well, who has a major character problem, doesn't know the international scene, is put in charge of the largest agency in the world??
All previous Sec Defs were longstanding generals or top executives from major defense contractors.

But you're right - let's see if there is a line for which they will show a spine. Let's hope.
Any other president firing off clearly illegal EO's would be censured by now. And, there would be a contingent who would meet with him to tell him to back off a bit or else the senate will shut him down. Congress is article I in US Constitution. The founder wanted power to come from there.

They haven't "bowed". The American people, narrowly, voted for some real change, primarily on immigration policy and war policy, and a more domestic centric focus as opposed to being the world policeman.

Is Trump the guy for it, I have no idea, but he was the only one OFFERING it. And that's why he won.

 

[Butler1000]

And you forget how many of the guardrails bowed and took damage in the first term.

Even if you believed the guardrails would always stop him, "Look, he failed last time, so it is only right to let him try again" is a dumb approach to things.
It only makes sense if you either agree with his goals or you figure the magic guardrail fairies will make it so that only the things you don't like in government will be damaged, and everything else will be good.
Or that once the wrecking ball hits, the new world order that replaces it will align with your desires.

It's simple. All the talk about him becoming a dictator was false. It didn't happen. And in four years the same will happen. A transition will occur.

And the American people will once again decide on the direction of the nation.

 

[Valcazar]

No, I think in the end the actual good people in Congress, govt positions, and the military just would not follow illegal orders. Or let it happen. And the majority of the good people of the USA would see it for what it was.

I have more faith I guess in the common people. But it tends to be Elites that panic when any push back on their agenda occurs.

Oh right.
I forgot your whole "the people are always with me, which is why when they disagree, they must be crushed under authoritarianism until they do what I want them to do" mindset.

This will be interesting, though.
Since this authoritarian push is what you want, what will you do when the people push back?
Just re-define them as actually bad?
Or just claim that the new elite power structure is what you wanted in the first place and it was all a great success?

It will be interesting to watch.

But I think you are misunderstanding me if you think I don't believe there will be pushback or that it shouldn't be celebrated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/01/30/usaid-trump-purge-foreign-assistance-freeze/

 

[Butler1000]

Oh right.
I forgot your whole "the people are always with me, which is why when they disagree, they must be crushed under authoritarianism until they do what I want them to do" mindset.

This will be interesting, though.
Since this authoritarian push is what you want, what will you do when the people push back?
Just re-define them as actually bad?
Or just claim that the new elite power structure is what you wanted in the first place and it was all a great success?

It will be interesting to watch.

But I think you are misunderstanding me if you think I don't believe there will be pushback or that it shouldn't be celebrated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/01/30/usaid-trump-purge-foreign-assistance-freeze/

You really are panicking aren't you? You lose a job over this? Some stocks down? Consultant friends feeling the pinch?

Of course there will be pushback, lots of it. Which probably means it will result in less done then you are crying about.

You keeping trying to swing me into these supposed extreme positions. The USA government is a huge ship that won't turn on a dime. But it will end up in a moderately different direction.

I see no authoritarian government here. EO's are common, but transitory. Court checks are already in play. Congress, once settled in, will pass a few things, the mid terms will hit, one house will likely swing, and then lame duck for two years.

Some things will happen in the Depts. Some of the entrenched Mandarins will be shown the door. Hopefully a few people not bought off get hired in. And some policy changes occur. I would love to see chemicals in food supply, a re look at drug approval policy, at the FDA. And if Tulsi does manage to squeek in(not looking good) some changes to the American spying apparatus.

Military, who knows what happens there. We shall see.

But really, you think in six months it's suddenly Germany in 1935?

 

[bver_hunter]

Kushner was convicted in 2005. Try and keep up.

Amazing how many Democrats have been seeing the truthwhen the tables are tuned...

Menendez claimed "political prosecution" outside the New York federal courthouse after he was sentenced.

• "President Trump was right," Menendez said.
• "This process is political, and it's corrupted to the core. I hope President Trump cleans up the cesspool and restores the integrity to the system."
  https://www.axios.com/2025/01/30/bob-menendez-sentenced-trump-political-prosecution

btw If Trump proactively pardoned his own family like Biden did, you would be setting yourself on fire. Biden does it............the usual hypocritical silence.

Who said that Kushner was not convicted in 2005?
But Trump pardoned him in 2020. You should try to keep up!!
He knows that the pardon was just to add to his Nepotism within his administration!!
You are the one defending Trump's nepotism for pardoning his daughter's in-law. That's being a typical hypocrite!!
Remember that Convicted Felon Trump promised to go on a witch hunt against all of Biden's family and others who rightly found him guilty of his 34+ Felons!!
Easy to praise Menendez, but how about Trump's own Lawyer called Mike Cohen who revealed the truth after Trump threw him under the bus?
We know that the righties hate him for revealing all of Trump's skeletons hidden in his closet!!

 

[Knuckle Ball]

No, I think in the end the actual good people in Congress, govt positions, and the military just would not follow illegal orders. Or let it happen. And the majority of the good people of the USA would see it for what it was.

I have more faith I guess in the common people. But it tends to be Elites that panic when any push back on their agenda occurs.

That is why Trump is purging all of the “good people” from every facet of government and replacing them with his own loyal deep state.

Trump will keep the country in a perpetual state of emergency and chaos which will then be used as justification for him to declare states of emergency, override congress, suspend the constitution, and make himself Leader for Life. That’s what he tried last time but he didn’t have enough stooges in place to get it done; this time he’s getting off to an early start and stripping down the civil service and inserting culture wars into the military.

And I’m not sure what gives you faith in the American people after they just elected a fascist who channeled Hitler throughout his campaign. The American people want the US to be a white ethno-state…they will be cheerleading Trump as he burns down democracy.

 

[Knuckle Ball]

The circumstances are vastly different. Completely different economic circumstances to start. Different political system. The "leader" is not nearly as popular. Different world politics in play.

Hitler never won more than a third of the German popular vote.

This is merely a rise in populism brought on by the increased presence of oligarchs in US politics. A far better historical comparison is the era 1900-1925.

Nazi Germany was very similar in its relationship with oligarchs. As far as I can tell, though, Hitler was at least somewhat more ethical than Trump in his dealings with these oligarchs as Adolf was more ideologically driven and not seeking to stuff his own pockets along the way…unlike you know who.

When the Fascists Arrive Holding Hands with the Oligarchs


From the link above:
Once the Nazis took power in Germany they banned books, outlawed drag shows, and homosexuality, changed school curricula to remove mention of their atrocities in WWI, and rewrote election laws so they’d never again lose an election. Sound familiar?

 

[Butler1000]

Hitler never won more than a third of the German popular vote.



Nazi Germany was very similar in its relationship with oligarchs. As far as I can tell, though, Hitler was at least somewhat more ethical than Trump in his dealings with these oligarchs as Adolf was more ideologically driven and not seeking to stuff his own pockets along the way…unlike you know who.

When the Fascists Arrive Holding Hands with the Oligarchs


From the link above:
Once the Nazis took power in Germany they banned books, outlawed drag shows, and homosexuality, changed school curricula to remove mention of their atrocities in WWI, and rewrote election laws so they’d never again lose an election. Sound familiar?

Man are you reaching.

 

[Butler1000]

That is why Trump is purging all of the “good people” from every facet of government and replacing them with his own loyal deep state.

Trump will keep the country in a perpetual state of emergency and chaos which will then be used as justification for him to declare states of emergency, override congress, suspend the constitution, and make himself Leader for Life. That’s what he tried last time but he didn’t have enough stooges in place to get it done; this time he’s getting off to an early start and stripping down the civil service and inserting culture wars into the military.

And I’m not sure what gives you faith in the American people after they just elected a fascist who channeled Hitler throughout his campaign. The American people want the US to be a white ethno-state…they will be cheerleading Trump as he burns down democracy.

Are you sleeping at all?

 

[Knuckle Ball]

Are you sleeping at all?

No…your Mom’s snoring keeps me awake.

 

[Butler1000]

No…your Mom’s snoring keeps me awake.

So no. You are worrying over something you have absolutely no control over.

 

[Knuckle Ball]

So no. You are worrying over something you have absolutely no control over.

I keep telling your Mom to use her CPAP machine but she is stubborn and won’t listen…plus…we can hear you wandering around the basement at night: When tf are you gonna move out and get a job?

 

[Butler1000]

I keep telling your Mom to use her CPAP machine but she is stubborn and won’t listen…plus…we can hear you wandering around the basement at night: When tf are you gonna move out and get a job?

The problem I think is you haven't been getting laid. You need a bit of post nut clarity in your life.

 

[Valcazar]

That is why Trump is purging all of the “good people” from every facet of government and replacing them with his own loyal deep state.

Clearly just the necessary egg breaking needed to make the omelette.
The "good people" will stop things before they inconvenience anyone other than the "bad people" Trump and Gabbard and company will target.
That's just how government works.
Things magically work out and everybody is happy.

Trump will keep the country in a perpetual state of emergency and chaos which will then be used as justification for him to declare states of emergency, override congress, suspend the constitution, and make himself Leader for Life. That’s what he tried last time but he didn’t have enough stooges in place to get it done; this time he’s getting off to an early start and stripping down the civil service and inserting culture wars into the military.

And I’m not sure what gives you faith in the American people after they just elected a fascist who channeled Hitler throughout his campaign. The American people want the US to be a white ethno-state…they will be cheerleading Trump as he burns down democracy.

To be fair, he is right that it isn't "The American people".
The US is a big place and people have lots and lots of diversity in it.
Trump didn't even win a majority of the popular vote in this win.

There is pushback and there will be pushback.
It's going to be ugly and there is going to be damage.

Hitler never won more than a third of the German popular vote.

People tend not to go back and look up the actual elections the Nazis were involved in.
It might interfere with their narratives.

Nazi Germany was very similar in its relationship with oligarchs. As far as I can tell, though, Hitler was at least somewhat more ethical than Trump in his dealings with these oligarchs as Adolf was more ideologically driven and not seeking to stuff his own pockets along the way…unlike you know who.

Yes, Trump's issues are not the same as Hitler's.
I don't know if that maps to "more ethical" really, though.

When the Fascists Arrive Holding Hands with the Oligarchs

From the link above:
Once the Nazis took power in Germany they banned books, outlawed drag shows, and homosexuality, changed school curricula to remove mention of their atrocities in WWI, and rewrote election laws so they’d never again lose an election. Sound familiar?

That Trump is more about money is balanced somewhat by the many ideologues among his main supporters.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is those ideologues are not unified. There is more than one ideology at play and once they're done with the things they agree about, they will go after each other since their final goals don't agree.

 

[Valcazar]

You really are panicking aren't you? You lose a job over this? Some stocks down? Consultant friends feeling the pinch?

The fantasy version of me in your head never ceases to amuse me.

Of course there will be pushback, lots of it. Which probably means it will result in less done then you are crying about.

But you're perfectly fine with the damage.

You keeping trying to swing me into these supposed extreme positions. The USA government is a huge ship that won't turn on a dime. But it will end up in a moderately different direction.

But you're perfectly fine with the damage.

I see no authoritarian government here.

Willfull blindness is a superpower.

Some things will happen in the Depts. Some of the entrenched Mandarins will be shown the door.

This is actually something I agree will happen.
Of course, it matters in my view who replaces them.

Hopefully a few people not bought off get hired in.

What's that?
A sliver of doubt creeping in that things will magically be better?

And some policy changes occur. I would love to see chemicals in food supply, are look at drug approval policy, at the FDA.

So the plan is, "let Trump put in corrupt people and then hope that they address things I want addressed"?

I see you're as grounded as always.

And if Tulsi does manage to squeek in(not looking good) some changes to the American spying apparatus. Military, who knows what happens there. We shall see.

Just "changes". Doesn't matter what they are.
As always.

But really, you think in six months it's suddenly Germany in 1935?

Of course not.
Authoritarian regimes follow multiple models.
No reason to think Germany is the best match.

 

[Butler1000]

The fantasy version of me in your head never ceases to amuse me.



But you're perfectly fine with the damage.



But you're perfectly fine with the damage.



Willfull blindness is a superpower.



This is actually something I agree will happen.
Of course, it matters in my view who replaces them.



What's that?
A sliver of doubt creeping in that things will magically be better?



So the plan is, "let Trump put in corrupt people and then hope that they address things I want addressed"?

I see you're as grounded as always.



Just "changes". Doesn't matter what they are.
As always.



Of course not.
Authoritarian regimes follow multiple models.
No reason to think Germany is the best match.

You are projecting again.

And yes, I think you have a personal stake in the Elites running things.

As I keep saying, the world is headed for tougher times. Trump is a symptom, not a cause. He is now going down the isolationism road I predicted. Buts it's one that was coming for awhile. Who ever had come out and said it would probably have won.

It will get better, but it will be years in the making. Because of people like you who let the oligarchs run things from the back, to the point they came out in the open. I hope things work out for everyone. I set myself up financially to weather this storm coming.

But it's inevitable imo. That's why I'm not suddenly going nuts. I saw it coming. Was laughed at as an "accelerationist". Well here it is. Caused by bad Neo Liberal policy.

 

[Skoob]

Who said that Kushner was not convicted in 2005?
But Trump pardoned him in 2020. You should try to keep up!!
He knows that the pardon was just to add to his Nepotism within his administration!!
You are the one defending Trump's nepotism for pardoning his daughter's in-law. That's being a typical hypocrite!!
Remember that Convicted Felon Trump promised to go on a witch hunt against all of Biden's family and others who rightly found him guilty of his 34+ Felons!!
Easy to praise Menendez, but how about Trump's own Lawyer called Mike Cohen who revealed the truth after Trump threw him under the bus?
We know that the righties hate him for revealing all of Trump's skeletons hidden in his closet!!

No silly...he pardoned him in 2020 after he already served his sentence many years before that (around 2006/2007). He didn't pardon him proactively like Biden pardoned his own family.

Sounds like you're against witch hunts if they are about people you support and not people you don't.

That's funny and hypocritical at the same time! Lol!

ps if the Biden family members have nothing to hide then they should be fine right? Why pardon them ahead of time? Are they trying to prevent some kind of investigation that may uncover the horrors they are afraid of getting caught for?

No one cares about hush money to a porn star if you haven't noticed.

But the Biden family seems really worried about being investigated...god knows what they were up to...if Hunter is any indication...this is going to be interesting indeed.

 

[Valcazar]

And yes, I think you have a personal stake in the Elites running things.

This is still my favourite fantasy of yours.

As I keep saying, the world is headed for tougher times. Trump is a symptom, not a cause. He is now going down the isolationism road I predicted. Buts it's one that was coming for awhile. Who ever had come out and said it would probably have won.

It will get better, but it will be years in the making. Because of people like you who let the oligarchs run things from the back, to the point they came out in the open. I hope things work out for everyone. I set myself up financially to weather this storm coming.

But it's inevitable imo. That's why I'm not suddenly going nuts. I saw it coming. Was laughed at as an "accelerationist". Well here it is. Caused by bad Neo Liberal policy.

I do like how you've gone mask off, though.

"Everyone should suffer to prove I was right. I'm safe, so fuck 'em."

Observing which authoritarians get your support will be interesting, I guess, in a morbid way.