What Everyone Gets Wrong About Tulsi Gabbard

[Valcazar]

This is the most sensitive job one can have. Is she really the best out there? It's not merit. It's a different sort of DEI - hire those who are Don's Ego Inflators.
Not merit. Not competence.

It's not just "will they suck up to and obey Trump".
They also have to dislike the agency as an independent power centre.

Patel's job is to not only use the FBI as a force to harass and threaten Trump's enemies, but also make it something that can't and won't act against Trump and his cronies.
It can't continue to have its own sense of independence and responsibilities outside the president.

Gabbard's role is similar for the intelligence agencies more broadly. They will be broken to Trump's will.
Now, if you think their existence as an independent power centre was bad because they had no reason to be loyal to the interests of the country as a whole or its elected officials, you might see this as a good thing.
Making these powerful forces tools the President can use freely may be a price you think is fine to break the backs of them as a power bloc.

Butler, for instance, considers it a good tradeoff, as he says above.

 

[Butler1000]

It's not just "will they suck up to and obey Trump".
They also have to dislike the agency as an independent power centre.

Patel's job is to not only use the FBI as a force to harass and threaten Trump's enemies, but also make it something that can't and won't act against Trump and his cronies.
It can't continue to have its own sense of independence and responsibilities outside the president.

Gabbard's role is similar for the intelligence agencies more broadly. They will be broken to Trump's will.
Now, if you think their existence as an independent power centre was bad because they had no reason to be loyal to the interests of the country as a whole or its elected officials, you might see this as a good thing.
Making these powerful forces tools the President can use freely may be a price you think is fine to break the backs of them as a power bloc.

Butler, for instance, considers it a good tradeoff, as he says above.

Man, is your paranoia getting worse.

 

[Knuckle Ball]

Man, is your paranoia getting worse.

It’s not paranoia when the Nazis are in charge.

 

[Butler1000]

It’s not paranoia when the Nazis are in charge.

What's most amazing about statements like this is this. Either it's just hyperbole because the poster just doesn't understand how bad it really was in Germany under them.

Or the USA has gotten so bad under the Elites the people are willing to let it happen.

But most if all it's a complete misunderstanding of the suspensions of democracy needed to get there. And that just hasn't happened and the checks and balances won't let it. Nor will the rank and file military.

 

[kherg007]

What's most amazing about statements like this is this. Either it's just hyperbole because the poster just doesn't understand how bad it really was in Germany under them.

Or the USA has gotten so bad under the Elites the people are willing to let it happen.

But most if all it's a complete misunderstanding of the suspensions of democracy needed to get there. And that just hasn't happened and the checks and balances won't let it. Nor will the rank and file military.

You raise a good point. But it looks like the first line of checks - the congress, especially the senate - has bowed. I mean a guy who never ran anything well, who has a major character problem, doesn't know the international scene, is put in charge of the largest agency in the world??
All previous Sec Defs were longstanding generals or top executives from major defense contractors.

But you're right - let's see if there is a line for which they will show a spine. Let's hope.
Any other president firing off clearly illegal EO's would be censured by now. And, there would be a contingent who would meet with him to tell him to back off a bit or else the senate will shut him down. Congress is article I in US Constitution. The founder wanted power to come from there.

 

[Frankfooter]

What's most amazing about statements like this is this. Either it's just hyperbole because the poster just doesn't understand how bad it really was in Germany under them.

Or the USA has gotten so bad under the Elites the people are willing to let it happen.

But most if all it's a complete misunderstanding of the suspensions of democracy needed to get there. And that just hasn't happened and the checks and balances won't let it. Nor will the rank and file military.

2 years ago I would have agreed, but now we have the US funding and aiding genocide and now with a leader who is morally way worse.

 

[Knuckle Ball]

What's most amazing about statements like this is this. Either it's just hyperbole because the poster just doesn't understand how bad it really was in Germany under them.

Or the USA has gotten so bad under the Elites the people are willing to let it happen.

But most if all it's a complete misunderstanding of the suspensions of democracy needed to get there. And that just hasn't happened and the checks and balances won't let it. Nor will the rank and file military.

What’s amazing about statements like this is the poster refuses to acknowledge the obvious similarities between what is happening now and Hitler’s rise to power. If you are somehow blind to what’s happening in front of you then you are either a Nazi or one of their cheerleaders.

 

[Valcazar]

Or the USA has gotten so bad under the Elites the people are willing to let it happen.

But most if all it's a complete misunderstanding of the suspensions of democracy needed to get there. And that just hasn't happened and the checks and balances won't let it. Nor will the rank and file military.

Ahh, the good old "the deep state guardrails will stop him, so it is fine that he tries for it actually," angle. After all, the Elites fucked up enough that the people want it, so it is good."

 

[Knuckle Ball]

You raise a good point. But it looks like the first line of checks - the congress, especially the senate - has bowed. I mean a guy who never ran anything well, who has a major character problem, doesn't know the international scene, is put in charge of the largest agency in the world??
All previous Sec Defs were longstanding generals or top executives from major defense contractors.

But you're right - let's see if there is a line for which they will show a spine. Let's hope.
Any other president firing off clearly illegal EO's would be censured by now. And, there would be a contingent who would meet with him to tell him to back off a bit or else the senate will shut him down. Congress is article I in US Constitution. The founder wanted power to come from there.

Exactly.

And what are the other checks on Trump’s power?
The Supreme Court? .
The media?
The American people?

America is enthusiastically hurtling towards fascism.

 

[Butler1000]

What’s amazing about statements like this is the poster refuses to acknowledge the obvious similarities between what is happening now and Hitler’s rise to power. If you are somehow blind to what’s happening in front of you then you are either a Nazi or one of their cheerleaders.

The circumstances are vastly different. Completely different economic circumstances to start. Different political system. The "leader" is not nearly as popular. Different world politics in play.

This is merely a rise in populism brought on by the increased presence of oligarchs in US politics. A far better historical comparison is the era 1900-1925.

In that era you saw the rise of new tech(airplane, cars, assembly line, electricity, indoor plumbing) in society. Attempted monopolies. Now it's Tech oligarchs and the rise of AI, E-commerce, Battery storage, and more. Resulting in shifts in the workplace.

In that time period you also had a war weary nation, like now, a pandemic, a migrant crisis, a general hedonism, all of which led to similar fights on the political scene.

Even as things became far worse in the depression, the absolute worst it got was the infamous Madison Square Garden rally, which while a stain on history, in reality led nowhere. Fascism never took hold. Because at its core the psyche of the nation just doesn't allow for it.

Until I see real change similar to that era in Germany, Spain, Italy etc, I just don't buy it.

 

[Butler1000]

Ahh, the good old "the deep state guardrails will stop him, so it is fine that he tries for it actually," angle. After all, the Elites fucked up enough that the people want it, so it is good."

No, I think in the end the actual good people in Congress, govt positions, and the military just would not follow illegal orders. Or let it happen. And the majority of the good people of the USA would see it for what it was.

I have more faith I guess in the common people. But it tends to be Elites that panic when any push back on their agenda occurs.

 

[Valcazar]

You raise a good point. But it looks like the first line of checks - the congress, especially the senate - has bowed.

And you forget how many of the guardrails bowed and took damage in the first term.

Even if you believed the guardrails would always stop him, "Look, he failed last time, so it is only right to let him try again" is a dumb approach to things.
It only makes sense if you either agree with his goals or you figure the magic guardrail fairies will make it so that only the things you don't like in government will be damaged, and everything else will be good.
Or that once the wrecking ball hits, the new world order that replaces it will align with your desires.

 

[Butler1000]

You raise a good point. But it looks like the first line of checks - the congress, especially the senate - has bowed. I mean a guy who never ran anything well, who has a major character problem, doesn't know the international scene, is put in charge of the largest agency in the world??
All previous Sec Defs were longstanding generals or top executives from major defense contractors.

But you're right - let's see if there is a line for which they will show a spine. Let's hope.
Any other president firing off clearly illegal EO's would be censured by now. And, there would be a contingent who would meet with him to tell him to back off a bit or else the senate will shut him down. Congress is article I in US Constitution. The founder wanted power to come from there.

They haven't "bowed". The American people, narrowly, voted for some real change, primarily on immigration policy and war policy, and a more domestic centric focus as opposed to being the world policeman.

Is Trump the guy for it, I have no idea, but he was the only one OFFERING it. And that's why he won.

 

[Butler1000]

And you forget how many of the guardrails bowed and took damage in the first term.

Even if you believed the guardrails would always stop him, "Look, he failed last time, so it is only right to let him try again" is a dumb approach to things.
It only makes sense if you either agree with his goals or you figure the magic guardrail fairies will make it so that only the things you don't like in government will be damaged, and everything else will be good.
Or that once the wrecking ball hits, the new world order that replaces it will align with your desires.

It's simple. All the talk about him becoming a dictator was false. It didn't happen. And in four years the same will happen. A transition will occur.

And the American people will once again decide on the direction of the nation.

 

[Valcazar]

No, I think in the end the actual good people in Congress, govt positions, and the military just would not follow illegal orders. Or let it happen. And the majority of the good people of the USA would see it for what it was.

I have more faith I guess in the common people. But it tends to be Elites that panic when any push back on their agenda occurs.

Oh right.
I forgot your whole "the people are always with me, which is why when they disagree, they must be crushed under authoritarianism until they do what I want them to do" mindset.

This will be interesting, though.
Since this authoritarian push is what you want, what will you do when the people push back?
Just re-define them as actually bad?
Or just claim that the new elite power structure is what you wanted in the first place and it was all a great success?

It will be interesting to watch.

But I think you are misunderstanding me if you think I don't believe there will be pushback or that it shouldn't be celebrated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/01/30/usaid-trump-purge-foreign-assistance-freeze/

 

[Butler1000]

Oh right.
I forgot your whole "the people are always with me, which is why when they disagree, they must be crushed under authoritarianism until they do what I want them to do" mindset.

This will be interesting, though.
Since this authoritarian push is what you want, what will you do when the people push back?
Just re-define them as actually bad?
Or just claim that the new elite power structure is what you wanted in the first place and it was all a great success?

It will be interesting to watch.

But I think you are misunderstanding me if you think I don't believe there will be pushback or that it shouldn't be celebrated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/01/30/usaid-trump-purge-foreign-assistance-freeze/

You really are panicking aren't you? You lose a job over this? Some stocks down? Consultant friends feeling the pinch?

Of course there will be pushback, lots of it. Which probably means it will result in less done then you are crying about.

You keeping trying to swing me into these supposed extreme positions. The USA government is a huge ship that won't turn on a dime. But it will end up in a moderately different direction.

I see no authoritarian government here. EO's are common, but transitory. Court checks are already in play. Congress, once settled in, will pass a few things, the mid terms will hit, one house will likely swing, and then lame duck for two years.

Some things will happen in the Depts. Some of the entrenched Mandarins will be shown the door. Hopefully a few people not bought off get hired in. And some policy changes occur. I would love to see chemicals in food supply, a re look at drug approval policy, at the FDA. And if Tulsi does manage to squeek in(not looking good) some changes to the American spying apparatus.

Military, who knows what happens there. We shall see.

But really, you think in six months it's suddenly Germany in 1935?

 

[bver_hunter]

Kushner was convicted in 2005. Try and keep up.

Amazing how many Democrats have been seeing the truthwhen the tables are tuned...

Menendez claimed "political prosecution" outside the New York federal courthouse after he was sentenced.

• "President Trump was right," Menendez said.
• "This process is political, and it's corrupted to the core. I hope President Trump cleans up the cesspool and restores the integrity to the system."
  https://www.axios.com/2025/01/30/bob-menendez-sentenced-trump-political-prosecution

btw If Trump proactively pardoned his own family like Biden did, you would be setting yourself on fire. Biden does it............the usual hypocritical silence.

Who said that Kushner was not convicted in 2005?
But Trump pardoned him in 2020. You should try to keep up!!
He knows that the pardon was just to add to his Nepotism within his administration!!
You are the one defending Trump's nepotism for pardoning his daughter's in-law. That's being a typical hypocrite!!
Remember that Convicted Felon Trump promised to go on a witch hunt against all of Biden's family and others who rightly found him guilty of his 34+ Felons!!
Easy to praise Menendez, but how about Trump's own Lawyer called Mike Cohen who revealed the truth after Trump threw him under the bus?
We know that the righties hate him for revealing all of Trump's skeletons hidden in his closet!!

 

[Knuckle Ball]

No, I think in the end the actual good people in Congress, govt positions, and the military just would not follow illegal orders. Or let it happen. And the majority of the good people of the USA would see it for what it was.

I have more faith I guess in the common people. But it tends to be Elites that panic when any push back on their agenda occurs.

That is why Trump is purging all of the “good people” from every facet of government and replacing them with his own loyal deep state.

Trump will keep the country in a perpetual state of emergency and chaos which will then be used as justification for him to declare states of emergency, override congress, suspend the constitution, and make himself Leader for Life. That’s what he tried last time but he didn’t have enough stooges in place to get it done; this time he’s getting off to an early start and stripping down the civil service and inserting culture wars into the military.

And I’m not sure what gives you faith in the American people after they just elected a fascist who channeled Hitler throughout his campaign. The American people want the US to be a white ethno-state…they will be cheerleading Trump as he burns down democracy.

 

[Knuckle Ball]

The circumstances are vastly different. Completely different economic circumstances to start. Different political system. The "leader" is not nearly as popular. Different world politics in play.

Hitler never won more than a third of the German popular vote.

This is merely a rise in populism brought on by the increased presence of oligarchs in US politics. A far better historical comparison is the era 1900-1925.

Nazi Germany was very similar in its relationship with oligarchs. As far as I can tell, though, Hitler was at least somewhat more ethical than Trump in his dealings with these oligarchs as Adolf was more ideologically driven and not seeking to stuff his own pockets along the way…unlike you know who.

When the Fascists Arrive Holding Hands with the Oligarchs


From the link above:
Once the Nazis took power in Germany they banned books, outlawed drag shows, and homosexuality, changed school curricula to remove mention of their atrocities in WWI, and rewrote election laws so they’d never again lose an election. Sound familiar?

 

[Butler1000]

Hitler never won more than a third of the German popular vote.



Nazi Germany was very similar in its relationship with oligarchs. As far as I can tell, though, Hitler was at least somewhat more ethical than Trump in his dealings with these oligarchs as Adolf was more ideologically driven and not seeking to stuff his own pockets along the way…unlike you know who.

When the Fascists Arrive Holding Hands with the Oligarchs


From the link above:
Once the Nazis took power in Germany they banned books, outlawed drag shows, and homosexuality, changed school curricula to remove mention of their atrocities in WWI, and rewrote election laws so they’d never again lose an election. Sound familiar?

Man are you reaching.