probably the reason why is this. I had a talk with friends about this very topic. Other cities don't have humans selling tickets, just machines. But when I suggested that machines should be put in, I had someone say that it wouldn't be good because someone would loose their job. WHO GIVES A SHIT I SAY. That's $100,000/yr per ticket seller (or however much they damn well make) could go to upgrading the damn system.xarir said:
TTC strike official! Monday @ 4 am!
- Thread starter wetnose
- Start date
WE get paid crap for strike pay.The Bandit said:
Now for all those people bashing me because I have a job that pays the way it does with the benefits I have you need to look a little bit further. Each and every contract the TTC makes us take a step back. They have been doing this for over 15 year. Each contract the retiree's, yes the ones who have done their time and get no vote, are getting the shaft in the contract with loss of benefits and reduced pension payments. The benefits we get are not entirely paid for by the TTC. We co-pay half and half for what we get. I see the $164 deduction every second week off my cheque. What we're really fighting for is to get what we pay for here. We keep paying the same or more (%age of income) and getting less and less each contract.
Collectors (ticket takers) are mostly drivers who had enough of moving a vehicle around and couldn't handle it anymore. The only way you could convince someone to do such a mind numbingly boring job. Skill level required... someone suggested 3rd grade math skills...I actually think it is 2nd grade....but then again my 3 years in journalism never did improve my math skills. It all looks rosey until you try it. It is the dead end job that everyone thinks is the easiest thing in the world. Ever lived in a fish bowl where people yell at you all day long...again...for doing your job correctly? No wonder they get pissy when the person they are dealing with is unreasonable...yes I know they can be unreasonable over stupid things too....but you don't know if the person before you just shit down their throat because they were having a bad day and the collector was the first person they saw to yell at.DoinggWhatIDdoBest said:
That being said, have you not noticed that the TTC is closing more and more collector booths and adding more and more MetroPass and Token/ticket vending machines out side the entrance to the busier stations? One of my friends is personally responsible for the addition of these machines. But here's the kicker. You make it easier for people to get things done with less human interaction...and then they complain that there's no one there to answer their question, give them change, stand there and scratch their ass, etc.
$100 000 / year is the exception not the norm. That was one guy working a shit load of overtime to give the government 51% of his paycheque. Most collectors make less than drivers because their day is based on an 8 hour shift, not a 12 hour spread with a 3 hour split in the middle starting at Yonge street in the morning and then heading way the hell up to Cummer in the afternoon, with 20 min to get there, or some weird shit like that which is what I am faced with regularly. I made $59 000 last year and I am willing to bet I only took home about $6000 less than the guy that earned over $100k. Most of what he is doing is topping up his best years to increase his pension at the end of his career. (based on 2/3 of your best 4 years... the first 2 years being your actual best and the 2nd 2 years decided by a panel which years to incorporate into the average... think they choose the actual 2 other best years?? think again) [see my earlier point about losing what we have already fought for]
If you think the job is so easy try doing it for a week, a day , hell for even an hour. Moving a bus around the city might look easy but that because I do it for 45 hours a week. I drive more than most people sleep in a week. I guess I should be good at it, but that doesn't relieve the stress you are under to maintain a schedule, fight traffic ALL DAY (not just the annoying rush hours most people face) AND get yelled at by the public, the supervisors and management because you are more than 3 minutes early at one point an then more than 10 minutes late a little further down the line because the stupid visor watching the line has no idea what the traffic levels are as he's sitting on his ass in a computer control room ad not on the street where they belong.
Last contract I had a guy come up to me screaming that we make way too much money, we're greedy overpaid bastard with no skill required to do our job.....so I asked him would you do my job... his response was "Not for all the money in the world"......and I am greedy for wanting to maintain the means of living that I have gained over the years?
Now personally I agree that the TTC should be an essential service. I agree that we should not strike. It isn't fair to the public, the workers the people who need us most. I have been saying for years that we should just do a massive work to rule campaign where we simply stop collecting fares while continuing to deliver the people to work.
This would:
a) get and keep the public on our side because they would see that we actually DO care about them getting to work (most of us anyway.... there's always assholes in every job ....we all know at least one... that make the rest look bad and make the longest lasting, wrong impressions)
b) it would force the TTC to make up the wage deficit and not the union employees which would definitely hurt them more than a strike would hurt us.
Now when I talk about the bullshit we have to put up with it is all relative. You cannot understand the stresses I face without walking a mile in my shoes. I do not come into your office, coffee shop, McDonalds restaurant, and tell you how to do your job. I do not come in to you place of business and tell you that you are 2 minutes later than the scheduled time you were supposed to be back from your lunch break. But everyday I get called an asshole for doing my job correctly. We cannot wait at every green light waiting for people to get to us because we don't have enough scheduled time to wait for you. We would just be sitting at the same light for 8 hours a day waiting for people to cross all day. We cannot see every single person running up beside the bus while we are looking out the window/mirror to make sure we're not about to slam into someone else's vehicle after we ALREADY looked for you 3 seconds before and you weren't there. Everyday I get told I am late, early, not properly uniformed (yep ..that really happened), that I should have known the weather was bad and DRIVEN FASTER to stay on time, etc etc etc. I cannot explain everything that happens as I am sure you could not explain every single incident that has pissed you off at work......oh wait.... you only deal with 50 people a day... maybe you can. I see over 1000 faces a day, about 98% of them are great people who just want to get somewhere. 2% of the riders are dealing with their own shit and it can be understood, but why are they taking out their issues on the TTC workers? Out of that 2% (roughly 20 people a day) about half of them are the real problem. The ones we wonder "am I going to get punched in the face if I tell that guy he was $.75 short on that fare? Am I going to get verbally assaulted for asking that guy to give up his seat for an elderly rider?" How many of you have to wonder about getting punched for DOING YOUR JOB CORRECTLY?
Jaedon said:
Are you saying that it is NOT part of your job description to make sure that passengers pay a fare? Are you saying that the "Rule" is to let people on for free and therefore by "working to rule" you are in fact obeying the rule that actually says let people on for free?
If that is the case then the system is truly fucked up and I suggest that it be shut down and the entire fleet and system be handed over to the private sector which will be allowed to compete with multiple providers on whichever routes they want to cherry pick.
If the "rule" is that you are supposed to collect fares then your "work to rule" is actually breaking the rules of operation and you should be fired. As far as garnering public sympaty with free rides you are wrong. The majority of us are smart enough to realize that there is no free ride ride in life unless of course you belong to the TTC Union in which case 1. you are not smart enough to get a job in the private sector and 2. you do feel entitled to a free ride.
I have two TTC drivers living on my street. One is an older white guy who drives his pickup truck like a fucking banshee. He is an accident waiting to happen. The other is a native indian who of course comes with his own unique "free ride" provisos and he enhances the neighbourhood by parking his 5th wheel and huge sailboat in his yard year round. He can afford his toys because of his extra "free ride" tickets. Neither one of these clowns exhibits any class that should come with being a home owner and none of you deserve one more cent of taxpayers money.
Try getting a real job where you are not sucking on the giant teat of the taxpayer.
how the hell did you get the idea that is idsn't part of my job? OF COURSE IT IS! That's why I am saying that we should STOP doing it. If that isn't clear to you then you are a little more fucked up then you are portraying yourself to be.
And yet again.. painting the entire world with the same brush that you see 2 individuals need to be painted with. I know about 35 assholes just like the ones you describe at my division.......theres 7 500 operators .... do you think that everyone of us is the same as the 2 assholes you know?
And as for a job description....we don't have one. We've been fighting for 6 years to get the TTC to actually put on paper what it is EXACTLY that they expect of us. Instead of constantly being told contradictory things that are your job one day for one supervisor, but told the very next day by another that you're not supposed to do that. There's no consistancy from one person in management to the next.
As for not being smart enough to get a job in the private sector..... we are actually smart enough to realize what a good tihng it is that we have and theat's why MOST of us LEFT the private sector to be here. We're still the lowest denominator in the city worker/union scheme of things.
That's EXACLTY what working to rule means. NOT doing a part of your job that is required. Ask the cops that don't write speeding tickets when they catch you speeding during a work to rule campaign? Are they getting a free ride? Think your statements through before making them so that they at least make sense. Wouldn't you rather save $25 a week in fares than spend a week stuck in traffic because of the strike?
And yet again.. painting the entire world with the same brush that you see 2 individuals need to be painted with. I know about 35 assholes just like the ones you describe at my division.......theres 7 500 operators .... do you think that everyone of us is the same as the 2 assholes you know?
And as for a job description....we don't have one. We've been fighting for 6 years to get the TTC to actually put on paper what it is EXACTLY that they expect of us. Instead of constantly being told contradictory things that are your job one day for one supervisor, but told the very next day by another that you're not supposed to do that. There's no consistancy from one person in management to the next.
As for not being smart enough to get a job in the private sector..... we are actually smart enough to realize what a good tihng it is that we have and theat's why MOST of us LEFT the private sector to be here. We're still the lowest denominator in the city worker/union scheme of things.
Deadline set at 4PM Sunday to announce whether there is a settlement or a strike Monday
Toronto the ghost town: http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/416326
Talks continue: http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/416320
Public weighs in on 'essential service': http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/416371
Toronto the ghost town: http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/416326
Talks continue: http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/416320
Public weighs in on 'essential service': http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/416371
Photographers should make as much as they can in this competitive market.xdog said:
Have not noticed many people complaining about the pay bus drivers make. Driving a bus is a difficult job that requires someone to pay attention all day, and put up with BS from the public. The bus drivers are out front and exposed to the public. I would not want to be a bus driver going back to work after a strike for sure.
It is the ticket takers, cleaners etc that are extremely overpaid. They are also easily replaced either with contracting out, or automation. How can it be justified that a ticket taker makes 3-4x the market rate for the job, or as much as a bus driver?
In some ways it is the bus drivers who are getting screwed, because the unions will not allow the automation, or contracting out of services. If the system could be made more efficient, there would be fewer strikes, rates could be lowered, and the public might be nicer to the bus drivers who are out in front taking the blame for everything that is wrong with the TTC.
That's exactly the point I was trying to Make KBear. Thanks.
I am not one of those guys who wants to be a collector so I can do less. I like to see the results of what I do making a difference. No matter what job I do. I do find it hard to defend the collectors salary... but on the same token (no pun intended) .... there are only about 200 collectors of the 7500 in that section of the union. They are not the biggest problem with waste. That is management.
How is it that fares went up almost 25% over the past 6 years, which was blamed on the unions of course wanting to be greedy, and yet in that same time frame my income only increased a little more than 11%. Where is the other 50% of the fare increase going? Management got an 18% increase over the same time frame..... in oder to attract more quality people to the positions.... bullshit.. in order to line the pockets of the overpaid, bloated salaried, people who do less than I do by a wide mile, at the top of the food chain. Want to see where your money gets wasted in the TTC?? Look at management salaries and their bonus structure.
The very same people fighting us on our wage increase because they took too much to begin with.. and now there's no money left for the front line.
I am not one of those guys who wants to be a collector so I can do less. I like to see the results of what I do making a difference. No matter what job I do. I do find it hard to defend the collectors salary... but on the same token (no pun intended) .... there are only about 200 collectors of the 7500 in that section of the union. They are not the biggest problem with waste. That is management.
How is it that fares went up almost 25% over the past 6 years, which was blamed on the unions of course wanting to be greedy, and yet in that same time frame my income only increased a little more than 11%. Where is the other 50% of the fare increase going? Management got an 18% increase over the same time frame..... in oder to attract more quality people to the positions.... bullshit.. in order to line the pockets of the overpaid, bloated salaried, people who do less than I do by a wide mile, at the top of the food chain. Want to see where your money gets wasted in the TTC?? Look at management salaries and their bonus structure.
The very same people fighting us on our wage increase because they took too much to begin with.. and now there's no money left for the front line.
Well put.Jaedon said:
I wouldn't want your job for sure.
I don't begrudge a person earning a decent living. As far as I am concerned, a TTC driver contributes more to society than a hockey player making 2 million a year.
My only criticism of the TTC is that it's bloated. Other than that, they seem to do a pretty fair job.
While I agree that there are too many managers, an organization the size of the TTC will need some very highly skilled people to keep it running:Jaedon said:
Accountants
Engineers
Planners
Communications
Logistics
etc.
You can't think that you are going to pay these people 70 or 80 grand a year. You simply won't attract them.
Ever take a look at the track layout at Roncessvailles and Queen. The guy who designed that deserves a medal.
But it was designed almost 50 years ago..... sure they need engineers but not that amount that they have on staff. When David Gunn came to run the system he looked at the planning dept... just as an example..... In NY where he ran the system before coming to Toronto he had over 500 bus lines and 25 subway lines and less than 10 people in the department. TTC has over 200 staff in that department for 175 bus and 3 subway lines. See my point? Thats only one snapshot.. examples like this are EVERYWHERE in the system... but it's the socialist regime at City Hall that has put them in this position and we the union members get made to look like the bad guys. We fight for the wage increases and then the non-union members get the benefit of them as well.james t kirk said:
Actually, truth be told, it's the other way round.KBear said:
David Miller is like an ostrich with his head buried in the sand whenever there is a controversial issue.
His number ONE tactic is "I was on vacation when that happened". His number TWO tactic is to be out of town.
Example,
Evicting the homeless. Miller told staff to evict the homeless in this one area of town when he was on vacation.
Miller didn't want to face the media on the issue, so he told his staff the date and they did it.
Miller came back from vacation and stood there and claimed he was on vacation and didn't know.
That's our Mayor.
Roncessvailles was completely rebuilt about 4 or 5 years ago and the track layouts were changed, all the while, keeping everything in service.Jaedon said:
How would you possibly know how many engineers are on staff at NYC?
or the TTC for that matter.
I mean that there are lots of things that should be done at TTC that aren't because the money has to come from somewhere.Esco! said:
Eg.
Double doors on subway platforms to prevent jumpers and pushers. Obvious solution, however, who is going to pay for it. So instead, we allow a suicide or two a week (resulting in one very scarred subway driver), and the odd push every few years.
Eg.
Cameras on Buses
Eg.
the driver enclosures
etc. etc.
I do not know how many engineers there are in either company... the point I was making is that in every area there are probably about 25% more staff in that department then are needed... and about 25% less drivers and collectors (lets not get started on how much collectors need to be paid again) than are needed...thus the overtime availability.james t kirk said:
The number about the staffing of the planning department are public knowledge as well as information given to each employee during their training before they start operating for the TTC. At least it was information I was given back then.
The simple answer for that is because it makes sense. Ever notice that government always makes decisions based on cost analysis rather than common sense? If it makes sense there is very little chance of the TTC doing it.james t kirk said:
Fighting the stop callers is the best example of that. They spent 35% more than it would have cost them to put the callers in 10 years ago when the court battle started.....to fight it and then ended up having to do it anyway which then made the cost in the end over50% higer than it would have been had they just done it.
