Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

If you're country is in a hole for 175B...maybe asked what the guy has to offer when he asks for another 100 billions? I mean, that's americans tax money, it probably won't fly if americans don't get something back.

So basically Trump is a loan shark pushing a protection racket.
If they want minerals, then he has got to be able to ensure Ukraine's sovereignty by offering security guarantees. (aka a formal deal where America will militarily engage Russia if the latter were to invade).

 

[The Mechanic]

To be fair, Trump has already said there is no reason for Zelensky to be part of the negotiations at all.
Trump and Putin will decide what is fair and impose it on Zelensky.

To me that sounds like dictatorship, and didn’t Trump referred to Zelensky as a dictator? Now who's the DICK ator

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Here is a better bunch of words. Those billions of free money
given to Ukraine would serve our nation's security better if spent on
our own defence in the arctic against Russian aggression. We need
to purchase more submarines and fighter jets and we also can spend
more money to pay our troops good salaries.

It isn't free. But I agree with spending money on our self defense. That is sorely lacking.

 

[countd]

There won't be weapons needed if he's able to have both sides to come up with an agreement... no one can predict what's gonna happen here...the US are already out 175B and zelensky wants more...war is still going on...If US will able to partner with Ukraine on rare earth minerals, I mean, that probably make Russia think twice (not guaranteed) If that partnership means, there will be 2 or 3 aircraft carriers in the black sea (no troops on the ground) that would probably make Russia stop the offensive (no guarantees). Having the deal won't make it a "wasteful spending" now is it? you guys really just expect Trump to hand over more billions without a deal...if he does that...what's next for the left to whine about? that he's weak...and gave up easily and gave away billions of $$$...the US is bleeding $$$...wouldn't it be good to have a leader who doesn't throw away money?

There won't be any aircraft carriers in the Black Sea, They would have to be there for at least ten years. The U.S will be cutting military spendind after Musk gets finished with his chainsaw!

 

[Valcazar]

There won't be weapons needed if he's able to have both sides to come up with an agreement...

But until there is an agreement, they keep fighting, right?
Or is part of your plan "Ukraine should lay down all arms and surrender until Trump and Putin come up with a deal"?

no one can predict what's gonna happen here...the US are already out 175B and zelensky wants more...war is still going on...

Again.
Is this a payment to keep weapons flowing or a payment to negotiate a peace deal?
I keep asking and you keep not answering, just talking about how much money is owed.
Is this a payment to pay back the previous arms?

Until you answer what Zelensky is actually paying Trump for here, I'm afraid you are going to find my answers frustrating.

If US will able to partner with Ukraine on rare earth minerals, I mean, that probably make Russia think twice (not guaranteed)

Why?
Do you even know what the rare earth deal is?
What's in the agreement?

Why would that make Russia "think twice"?
Unless you are saying that Trump is offering to fight Russia for the minerals?

If that partnership means, there will be 2 or 3 aircraft carriers in the black sea (no troops on the ground) that would probably make Russia stop the offensive (no guarantees).

So you think Trump should escalate the war by sending aircraft carriers over and confronting Russia directly?
And that the rare earth minerals deal is just cover for the excuse of spending more military assets in the region and increasing US involvement?
Interesting.
If Russia knows that the US is likely to attack in response to any future aggression by Russia, then Russia will back down.

Interesting.

Having the deal won't make it a "wasteful spending" now is it? you guys really just expect Trump to hand over more billions without a deal...if he does that...what's next for the left to whine about? that he's weak...and gave up easily and gave away billions of $$$...the US is bleeding $$$...wouldn't it be good to have a leader who doesn't throw away money?

I know you are obsessed with money, but do you really think this rare earth minerals deal is worth enough to justify all the spending that maintaining two or three aircraft carriers over to police the black sea indefinitely is worth?
Taking a more direct confrontational posture with Russia and increasing the US defense spending in order to escalate tensions?

Seems risky.

 

[oil&gas]

............................................
Are you arguing that the US should stop sending any aid to Ukraine and wipe its hands of the negotiation?
Are you arguing that the US should stop sending any aid to Ukraine but still negotiate a peace deal?
Are you saying that US should send more aid if Zelensky signs the deal, but also negotiate a peace deal?
.....................................

I think the mineral deal was meant to smooth things out
for the U.S. to cut a deal with Putin. Putin seeing that U.S.
mining engineers pouring into Ukraine would have to realize
further advancement of Russian armies would better halt
at some point. Putin would not hesitate to have captured foreign
mercenaries fighting alongside Ukrainians executed immediately.
But he has to be a fool to allow Russian troops to wipe out a
U.S. controlled mines run by American miners.

 

[countd]

Trump has already said Europeans would have to provide security.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Bill Clinton interview from 10 years ago.
He says that Putin never reneged on any deals he made

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMBJQdnoE/

 

[Valcazar]

Vance says Trump hasn't conceded anything to Putin

TikTok - Make Your Day

Probably true technically, concerning Ukraine.
Until something is signed, it isn't really a concession.
And it was Hesgeth who basically said Putin should get everything he wants, if I recall.

 

[Valcazar]

Can someone explain to me why the media doesn’t pick up on this? Putin wants to take over Ukraine, Trump wants Canada to be the 51st state. Other than one uses force and the other one uses economic force, what’s the difference between the two to me they’re the same. Nowhere has the media picked up on this, probably give a pass to the America media they’re all scared for their jobs. Your thoughts.

I think a lot of media has commented on how much Trump envies Putin and wants to be like him.
Also on the shared idea of "spheres of influence" where the regional power gets to do what it wants in terms of threatening its neighbors and so on.

 

[mandrill]

I think the mineral deal was meant to smooth things out
for the U.S. to cut a deal with Putin. Putin seeing that U.S.
mining engineers pouring into Ukraine would have to realize
further advancement of Russian armies would better halt
at some point. Putin would not hesitate to have captured foreign
mercenaries fighting alongside Ukrainians executed immediately.
But he has to be a fool to allow Russian troops to wipe out a
U.S. controlled mines run by American miners.

Wouldn't the same thing take place if American peace keepers went into Ukraine, without the mineral rights?

 

[mandrill]

well US could easily walk away too?
Of course Trump wants a cut for the US...that 175B is on Biden... it's quite obvious, 175B went to waste without the war ending...

If any leader can sit down with Putin...what the fuck was going on in the last 3 years?

Just Curious. How much did the US charge South Viet Nam for the Viet Nam war? Or Iraq for occupying Iraq? Or the Contras for fighting the Sandinistas? Or South Korea for the Korean War?

 

[richaceg]

But until there is an agreement, they keep fighting, right?
Or is part of your plan "Ukraine should lay down all arms and surrender until Trump and Putin come up with a deal"?



Again.
Is this a payment to keep weapons flowing or a payment to negotiate a peace deal?
I keep asking and you keep not answering, just talking about how much money is owed.
Is this a payment to pay back the previous arms?

Until you answer what Zelensky is actually paying Trump for here, I'm afraid you are going to find my answers frustrating.



Why?
Do you even know what the rare earth deal is?
What's in the agreement?

Why would that make Russia "think twice"?
Unless you are saying that Trump is offering to fight Russia for the minerals?



So you think Trump should escalate the war by sending aircraft carriers over and confronting Russia directly?
And that the rare earth minerals deal is just cover for the excuse of spending more military assets in the region and increasing US involvement?
Interesting.
If Russia knows that the US is likely to attack in response to any future aggression by Russia, then Russia will back down.

Interesting.



I know you are obsessed with money, but do you really think this rare earth minerals deal is worth enough to justify all the spending that maintaining two or three aircraft carriers over to police the black sea indefinitely is worth?
Taking a more direct confrontational posture with Russia and increasing the US defense spending in order to escalate tensions?

Seems risky.

Look val...we can keep going back and forth about this...bottom line...what does Zelensky want? What does putin want? US can sit this one out if they want to...they are in the cost cutting right now and not spending billions of dollars probably sounds like a pretty good idea right now... Does Zelensky want peace? because from that last meeting, he's implying that he can't have peace with Russia...or he doesn't want to...you think it's a good idea to just h and him the money?

 

[richaceg]

Wouldn't the same thing take place if American peace keepers went into Ukraine, without the mineral rights?

depends, are they gonna start shooting Ukrainians? then we can't call them "peace keepers".

 

[Valcazar]

well US could easily walk away too?

Aren't you saying they should?

I thought that was the whole point.
"Pay us or we walk away."

(Well, you keep not answering what the US is supposed to be paid for, although your last few posts seem to make it that they will be paid protection money to drive Russia off and keep it afraid of attacking again.)

Of course Trump wants a cut for the US...that 175B is on Biden... it's quite obvious, 175B went to waste without the war ending...

Again, so this is payment for past money (I suppose this wipes out the loans Ukraine owes, or is this payment on top of the loans?) primarily?
(But also a reason for Trump to spend much more money keeping Russia in line in the future?)

If any leader can sit down with Putin...what the fuck was going on in the last 3 years?

Putin had invaded. No one wanted to talk to him and he repeatedly said (like he said to Trump in December) that their offers weren't good enough.
Plus there was still constant negotiation between all the parties involved via diplomats.
You know, diplomacy.
The thing you think is going to work now that Trump will meet with Putin and tell him that the US is going to start sending battle ships and aircraft carriers to go get the raw earth metals so Putin needs to back off.

 

[oil&gas]

Wouldn't the same thing take place if American peace keepers went into Ukraine, without the mineral rights?

Trump would not beTrump to be willing to send peace keepers to
Ukraine at America's expenses if he knows the fools of NATO-Europe
would be happy to put their troops in harm's way.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Probably true technically, concerning Ukraine.
Until something is signed, it isn't really a concession.
And it was Hesgeth who basically said Putin should get everything he wants, if I recall

Do you have a video clip or link for what Hegseth said??

Because I don't remember him saying that, or I must have missed it

 

[Valcazar]

So basically Trump is a loan shark pushing a protection racket.
If they want minerals, then he has got to be able to ensure Ukraine's sovereignty by offering security guarantees. (aka a formal deal where America will militarily engage Russia if the latter were to invade).

No, richacg has that covered.
Trump isn't going to sign a formal guarantee, he's just going to do a lot of escalation and military flexing to subtly threaten Putin until Putin takes the hint.

Because Trump needs to protect his investment, see?

So nothing formal, just a nod and a wink.

(What's that? What if Putin says "let me take over and I will give you a better deal on the minerals? Well, then that's just good for Trump, right?)

 

[richaceg]

Aren't you saying they should?

I thought that was the whole point.
"Pay us or we walk away."

(Well, you keep not answering what the US is supposed to be paid for, although your last few posts seem to make it that they will be paid protection money to drive Russia off and keep it afraid of attacking again.)



Again, so this is payment for past money (I suppose this wipes out the loans Ukraine owes, or is this payment on top of the loans?) primarily?
(But also a reason for Trump to spend much more money keeping Russia in line in the future?)



Putin had invaded. No one wanted to talk to him and he repeatedly said (like he said to Trump in December) that their offers weren't good enough.
Plus there was still constant negotiation between all the parties involved via diplomats.
You know, diplomacy.
The thing you think is going to work now that Trump will meet with Putin and tell him that the US is going to start sending battle ships and aircraft carriers to go get the raw earth metals so Putin needs to back off.

We are all speculating what's gonna happen here... Trump wants the deal to happen, wants the war to stop...he was clear about it. Does Zelensky want the deal too? does he want the war to stop? Can Trump have both?
The deal and peace deal can be tied up or not..does it really matter? Are you all about the "morality" of Trumps strategy? US right now felt like they are being fleeced out of their tax funds....is Trump wrong for making a deal that benefits the US? You can call it "bribe", payment etc etc...whatever. it will make Americans feel good about aiding Ukraine if that's what it takes... be honest...you're not liking Trump making this deal happen because he will look good....

 

[richaceg]

No, richacg has that covered.
Trump isn't going to sign a formal guarantee, he's just going to do a lot of escalation and military flexing to subtly threaten Putin until Putin takes the hint.

Because Trump needs to protect his investment, see?

So nothing formal, just a nod and a wink.

(What's that? What if Putin says "let me take over and I will give you a better deal on the minerals? Well, then that's just good for Trump, right?)

How nice of you to make it about just Trump...he's mandated by Americans...he's the POTUS...he won't waste anymore tax money if Americans won't get anything in return...i guess you still don't get it.