Oh no!
That's going to ruin richaceg's plan!
How will Trump protect his investment if he can't convince Putin to back off with the threat of military escalation?
Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode
- Thread starter nottyboi
- Start date
That's going to ruin richaceg's plan!
How will Trump protect his investment if he can't convince Putin to back off with the threat of military escalation?
So Trump's plan is that by putting American lives in harm's way, it's a security guarantee in all but name, because he would have no choice but to send American troops to fight Russia if Russia killed an American.
He was just upset with Zelensky for calling it a security guarantee, because he wanted strategic ambiguity.
But would you trust Trump to defend American lives if there wasn't some money at stake?
That's how smart Trump is.
Not like those suckers who didn't make some scratch by charging.
That does not answer my question. How can you say Ukraine was not a threat to Russia? Russia has the power to threaten every nation on the planet, the USA even more so. That does not mean other nations cannot be a threat to them.
OMG, it's like you think negotiating involves finding these things out and trying to reconcile the differences.
Crazy.
They always can.
And, as you might expect, they will have to deal with the consequences of that choice.
Trump has supported a budget that will increase defense spending of course.
He just doesn't want to spend it on Ukraine.
Needs that money for other military action.
Whether or not he should be given the money depends on what the strategic benefits you think are for spending the money.
You've said that the US would happily send aircraft carriers and troops, spending lots of money, if they think they have this mineral deal.
(Others think this unlikely.)
It is quite obvious that the war bores Trump and he wants the channel changed and he wants to not spend the money.
And so Trump might just do that.
But as for what Zelensky wants, he pretty clearly wants the war to end.
However, he isn't willing to accept just any conditions for the war to end. Just like Putin, who has repeatedly refused to end the war.
Trump has shown no ability to thread that needle so far, or really any interest in doing it.
And, as you say, he doesn't care about the war and shouldn't, he should just care about the money.
Running a business from scratch is nothing like launching
military operations. Surely there will be risk for some business
executives or engineers spending time in Ukraine on planning
and logistics of mining operations to be started. But I don't
think any risk of such ventures would be more unacceptable
than what foreigners encountered during the occupation of Iraq.
Remember there were even UN high officials killed well after
Bush's mission was accomplished.
Trump's plan to pillage Ukraine's resources won't
be a process rushed like sending in troops to defend Ukraine.
While I did say Putin has to be a fool to wipe out an U.S. run
mine, in reality developing a mine often takes years before
production commences. Trump would have to come up
with some sort of agreement with Putin before it is
deemed safe for Americans to freely go into Ukraine.
So I believe this is the relevant segment.
Of course he had to walk it back the next day and admit he had no authorization to say any of that.
Then, of course, he had nothing to say about what concessions Russia would have to make.
You answered it yourself.
Russia has the power to threaten every nation on the planet. And they did.
They also occupied Ukraine.
Ukraine neither has the power nor did they occupy Russia.
OMG, you mean Trump will have to negotiate something that both sides agree to?
Crazy.
I mean, you are talking about negotiation and not "one side gives the other one everything they ask for" right?
It matters because if you can't articulate what the importance of this deal is, then why are you so mad it fell through? (Which it hasn't, since both sides have talked about going back to it.)
You're the one presenting this mineral deal as the magical key that makes everything work, so you should be able to explain what it is actually for and what purpose it serves.
I think morality has its place (it isn't the end all and be all of everything) in negotiation of all types between people, but I can accept that you disagree.
No.
Only some people think that.
Trump among them, yes, I will grant you.
Not at all.
The question is would this deal benefit the US (uncertain) and will the deal even be made at all, since Trump seems to have fucked it up?
(Even if Z is still trying to salvage it.)
Because Trump is all about the corruption and it is the most accurate way to describe the way the deal has been approached.
Ah!
Almost a straight answer!
"We need this deal to make the American people feel good about aiding Ukraine" (presumably into the future).
So once again, the deal has nothing to do with a peace agreement.
It's just about securing American aid to Ukraine.
Trump doesn't look good with any of this, though.
You wrote
Thats not what Hegseth said in that video. He said returning conquered land to Ukraine wasnt gonna happen, and he also said Ukraine would not become part of NATO. The peace deal that Russia originally signed in 1990 stated that Ukraine could never become part of NATO, so thats nothing new.
The only thing Russia would get is the conquered Ukrainian land, but Hegseth also said a peacekeeping force in a DMZ zone similar S. Korea is what the US wants, and Russia said they were against that also. So any peace deal that Putin signs which includes a DMZ peacekeeping force would mean Russia is not getting everything they want like you said, because they have been very much opposed to any peacekeeping force in Ukraine
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So we are back to this actually requiring a security guarantee, just like Zelensky said?
Weird.
BTW security guarantees were part of the original deal.
Those were not honored.
That needs to be kept in mind.
Again we see the deal seems to be "give us half your mineral wealth and trust Putin."
BTW I hope a DMZ gets in there. But right now I have not seen a single concession by the Russians. And they've been gaining advantages. They can more easily hack us govt computers, they got cyber operations stopped, they got weapons to Ukraine stopped, they got Trump and jd Vance attacking zelenskyy to his face and parroting russian talking points to their complete glee.
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Hegseth says it in the video you posted
What a Ukraine DMZ could look like
"Demilitarized zones sound better than they function in real life," retired Marine Corps Reserve Colonel Mark Cancian told Newsweek.
www.newsweek.com
My understanding is that the kind of security guarantee Zelensky
has in mind would be something not even South Vietnam during the
years when U.S. troops were dying to defend them was entitled to.
We in Canada can expect other NATO members coming to
our rescue when invaded. But I doubt our security is guaranteed.
