Probably true technically, concerning Ukraine.
Until something is signed, it isn't really a concession.
And it was Hesgeth who basically said Putin should get everything he wants, if I recall.
Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode
- Thread starter nottyboi
- Start date
Until something is signed, it isn't really a concession.
And it was Hesgeth who basically said Putin should get everything he wants, if I recall.
I think a lot of media has commented on how much Trump envies Putin and wants to be like him.
Also on the shared idea of "spheres of influence" where the regional power gets to do what it wants in terms of threatening its neighbors and so on.
Wouldn't the same thing take place if American peace keepers went into Ukraine, without the mineral rights?
Just Curious. How much did the US charge South Viet Nam for the Viet Nam war? Or Iraq for occupying Iraq? Or the Contras for fighting the Sandinistas? Or South Korea for the Korean War?
Look val...we can keep going back and forth about this...bottom line...what does Zelensky want? What does putin want? US can sit this one out if they want to...they are in the cost cutting right now and not spending billions of dollars probably sounds like a pretty good idea right now... Does Zelensky want peace? because from that last meeting, he's implying that he can't have peace with Russia...or he doesn't want to...you think it's a good idea to just h and him the money?
depends, are they gonna start shooting Ukrainians? then we can't call them "peace keepers".
Aren't you saying they should?
I thought that was the whole point.
"Pay us or we walk away."
(Well, you keep not answering what the US is supposed to be paid for, although your last few posts seem to make it that they will be paid protection money to drive Russia off and keep it afraid of attacking again.)
Again, so this is payment for past money (I suppose this wipes out the loans Ukraine owes, or is this payment on top of the loans?) primarily?
(But also a reason for Trump to spend much more money keeping Russia in line in the future?)
Putin had invaded. No one wanted to talk to him and he repeatedly said (like he said to Trump in December) that their offers weren't good enough.
Plus there was still constant negotiation between all the parties involved via diplomats.
You know, diplomacy.
The thing you think is going to work now that Trump will meet with Putin and tell him that the US is going to start sending battle ships and aircraft carriers to go get the raw earth metals so Putin needs to back off.
Do you have a video clip or link for what Hegseth said??
Because I don't remember him saying that, or I must have missed it
No, richacg has that covered.
Trump isn't going to sign a formal guarantee, he's just going to do a lot of escalation and military flexing to subtly threaten Putin until Putin takes the hint.
Because Trump needs to protect his investment, see?
So nothing formal, just a nod and a wink.
(What's that? What if Putin says "let me take over and I will give you a better deal on the minerals? Well, then that's just good for Trump, right?)
We are all speculating what's gonna happen here... Trump wants the deal to happen, wants the war to stop...he was clear about it. Does Zelensky want the deal too? does he want the war to stop? Can Trump have both?
The deal and peace deal can be tied up or not..does it really matter? Are you all about the "morality" of Trumps strategy? US right now felt like they are being fleeced out of their tax funds....is Trump wrong for making a deal that benefits the US? You can call it "bribe", payment etc etc...whatever. it will make Americans feel good about aiding Ukraine if that's what it takes... be honest...you're not liking Trump making this deal happen because he will look good....
How nice of you to make it about just Trump...he's mandated by Americans...he's the POTUS...he won't waste anymore tax money if Americans won't get anything in return...i guess you still don't get it.
Oh no!
That's going to ruin richaceg's plan!
How will Trump protect his investment if he can't convince Putin to back off with the threat of military escalation?
So Trump's plan is that by putting American lives in harm's way, it's a security guarantee in all but name, because he would have no choice but to send American troops to fight Russia if Russia killed an American.
He was just upset with Zelensky for calling it a security guarantee, because he wanted strategic ambiguity.
But would you trust Trump to defend American lives if there wasn't some money at stake?
That's how smart Trump is.
Not like those suckers who didn't make some scratch by charging.
That does not answer my question. How can you say Ukraine was not a threat to Russia? Russia has the power to threaten every nation on the planet, the USA even more so. That does not mean other nations cannot be a threat to them.
OMG, it's like you think negotiating involves finding these things out and trying to reconcile the differences.
Crazy.
They always can.
And, as you might expect, they will have to deal with the consequences of that choice.
Trump has supported a budget that will increase defense spending of course.
He just doesn't want to spend it on Ukraine.
Needs that money for other military action.
Whether or not he should be given the money depends on what the strategic benefits you think are for spending the money.
You've said that the US would happily send aircraft carriers and troops, spending lots of money, if they think they have this mineral deal.
(Others think this unlikely.)
It is quite obvious that the war bores Trump and he wants the channel changed and he wants to not spend the money.
And so Trump might just do that.
But as for what Zelensky wants, he pretty clearly wants the war to end.
However, he isn't willing to accept just any conditions for the war to end. Just like Putin, who has repeatedly refused to end the war.
Trump has shown no ability to thread that needle so far, or really any interest in doing it.
And, as you say, he doesn't care about the war and shouldn't, he should just care about the money.
Running a business from scratch is nothing like launching
military operations. Surely there will be risk for some business
executives or engineers spending time in Ukraine on planning
and logistics of mining operations to be started. But I don't
think any risk of such ventures would be more unacceptable
than what foreigners encountered during the occupation of Iraq.
Remember there were even UN high officials killed well after
Bush's mission was accomplished.
Trump's plan to pillage Ukraine's resources won't
be a process rushed like sending in troops to defend Ukraine.
While I did say Putin has to be a fool to wipe out an U.S. run
mine, in reality developing a mine often takes years before
production commences. Trump would have to come up
with some sort of agreement with Putin before it is
deemed safe for Americans to freely go into Ukraine.
So I believe this is the relevant segment.
Of course he had to walk it back the next day and admit he had no authorization to say any of that.
Then, of course, he had nothing to say about what concessions Russia would have to make.
