Toronto Judge bans Christmas tree from courthouse

[mandrill]

Okay, another 0.02, I guess.

Point is, that the Xmas tree decision was likely made - or at least vetted - by a committe of all 6 of the judges at 311 Jarvis. It's unlikely to be Justice Cohen's own sudden brainstorm. And these are judges, so they make "decisions" twenty times a day and seven days a week. And most of their decisions involve issues which are far more important - at least to the individual litigants before the court - than a decision to remove a Xmas tree from the courthouse lobby.

I suspect that the judges simply felt that removing the tree would make some non-Christian litigants feel less alienated and this is a reasonable balancing of the competing interests involved re the tree's continued presence in the building.

Guys, this is a courthouse. Why does the tree have to be there are all?? In the balancing process, it's more important that all the people coming before the court feel recognized and accomodated than that a Xmas Tree lives in the lobby for a couple of weeks.

Most of you will never visit 311 Jarvis. (I certainly hope not anyway). And the removal of a Xmas tree is not a big deal. The real genius of the Media is that it can take an incident, blow it out of all proportion and make a whole bunch of people feel angry, sad or happy about stuff that isn't directly relevant to their lives. IMHO this is just another good illustration of the power of the Media.

 

[Esco!]

So should they ban the Santa Claus parade then also?

Thats next, many people are apparently offended by it and I'm pretty sure its a government paid event which is supposed to be secular and not show any religious affiliation.

 

[Esco!]

the removal of a Xmas tree is not a big deal. The real genius of the Media is that it can take an incident, blow it out of all proportion and make a whole bunch of people feel angry, sad or happy about stuff that isn't directly relevant to their lives. IMHO this is just another good illustration of the power of the Media.

Not entirely true, most people are worried not so much about one tree but where it is all headed.
Like I wrote earlier, Santa, the parade and xmas trees are all on their way out, its just a matter of time.

 

[pussylicker]

Next time you go to DC and view the national buildings
and monuments look carefully. You will not see one representation of the Christian Godhead on any of those buildings. That was an intentional
act by the designers of those buildings.

Keep religious symbols out of the Courts.

Jefferson is quoted as saying: The new religion of America is the law.

Understanding what he meant may require reading several volumns of his letters. But, you get the substance by that quote.

The law deals with reason and not revelation.

There is a reason why they were designed that way. There is an underlying symbolism with the way DC is laid out. Even though the US was founded on Christian beliefs and principles, there is a different force at work. You will find out why in a very short time.

 

[Aardvark154]

Absolutely, in many way Law Societies - Bar Associations are like
belonging to the Teacher's Union. You may disagree entirely with the
position taken by the executive but look luck voting the rascals out,
the fees are mandatory and "of course they're speaking for you."

Many lawyers and judges see this crap, and far worse, day in and day out, but are literally gagged about saying anything publicly.

Oh dear, the thought police will be after you now for anti-semitic
thought patterns. (Can any of us honestly say the thought didn’t
cross our mind)

Isn't Cohen a Jewish name? *cough*

Ah for the good old days

Hey, we aren't goin' back to the Family Compact and the Clergy Reserves are we??

Well at least I can still wish everyone a Merry Christmas!

 

[jwmorrice]

The God you refer to is the God of Nature,
the Creator of the Universe.

We Americans have a history of the Public
Religion and the Private Religion. Don't
confuse the two.

There's an excellent book written by Jon
Meacham titled 'The American Gospel'.
Meacham is the Managing Editor of the
magazine, Newsweek.

If you want a full explanation of the American
tradition of Public and Private Religion I strongly
recommend his history.

Jefferson used those words and also is the
author of the concept of Public Religion to
protect Private Religion, but making a clear
distinction because of the wars in Europe in
the 18th Century.

Thanks for this.

jwm

 

[pool]

Merry christmas and if you don't like me saying that, then kiss my lily white ass.

I'm not keen on this idea of it being said with the intent of defiance ... it seems some people are getting caught up in the symbolism and inadvertently detracting from the true spirit of X-mas ... it's becoming cross-mass.

now, Sheiky, would you be open to a rusty trombone with that ass smooching : )

 

[Esco!]

I declare Jihad on all of you!!

 

[Esco!]

Please practice your martyrdom somerwhere else.

I will blow myself up wherever I see fit

 

[Esco!]

Might I make a suggestion. I envision a proper fit
somewhere in Buffalo with a little blue man, eh!

I dont wanna piss off PETA

 

[pussylicker]

A few of you are missing the point. Did you just fall off the turnip truck? This country was founded and nurtured by British tradition of Chritian beliefs, acknowledging the Monarchy, until a few years back, we sang God Save The Queen, immigrants use to pledge allegiance to the Monarchy when they became citizen's of Canada, in court, you swore on the Bible, and the picture of the Queen was on the wall, MPs are sworn in on the Bible. It's all tied together. So if the Bible was part of the court system, and the Gov't, and tradition, then the tree although part of a celebration, shouldn't be deemed as unappropriate.

 

[pussylicker]

The US was based on not only Christian, but
Greek/Roman/English and European traditions.
Christian traditions as delivered to our shores
by those damn Puritans expelled from England
does not represent our values.

People came here to escape religious persecution. You know, wanting to have freedoms. You also said "was", and that is true. Was. Things have changed, and a new idiology is about to be shown to you.

 

[pussylicker]

Ever hear of globalization. Wanna be a banana republic?
Get used to it. Canada wouldn't be anywhere near what
you are today if it weren't for emigrees from all over.

Protect your Private Religion, but don't trod on others.
After all, you're not First Nation People. You surpressed
their religious beliefs as did we in the US. Why play the
hypocracy game? You're not First Nation, you're ancestry
are emigrees. Closing the door behind you to all others, eh!

I'm not closing any door. Canada WAS a GREAT country. If you want to know something, since the '70s, the people's rights in this country have been eroded.

I can't do or say what I want without offending anyone.
The immigrants now have more rights than someone who was born here.

I can't go to another country and complain, but it seems a lot of people come here and get what they want.

 

[johnhenrygalt]

I always get a kick out of these proud stalwart Christians taking a "stand" on an internet board dedicating to prostitution and the sex trade.

 

[pool]

To defy the laws of tradition ...

Culture isn't homogeneous or static. Society is comprised of many cultures of which each reflects the values and beliefs of the individual. Cultures change and evolve from within and from generation to generation over time. [Allegedly] free societies, by their very nature do change. The fact that people feel "our" traditional values are under attack neglects the essence of culture.

 

[PraiseTheLoad]

Holy Jumpin!

What's this thread about anyway...a Jewish judge with an ill-conceived idea about a Christmas tree followed by a lawyer thumping, then followed by a Holy-war?

That's not what the season is all about.

May the Load be with you all.

PTL

 

[Bearlythere]

You guys know what pisses me off the most? No one save someone looking for trouble was offended. Most Muslims and Jews in Canada, not to mention atheists and any other religious thought going KNOW Christmas is a big deal in Canada. Just like it is in any other country where 80 plus percent of the population is nominally Christian. WE have a society that was built by people mainly of Christian backgrounds, and now save for a few people with no sense of common sense, we would still have Christmas tree's and evidence of Christmas in Government buildings. Alas, no...we have people who are SO intolerent of other people's faith's that they have to use the law to eradicate any evidence that Christianity plays any part in anything in Canada, much less a Christmas tree. They hide their INTOLERANCE by claiming we are being intolerent.

No, this judge is a typical politically correct left-wing judge who didn't even have the GUTS to defend her decision in the press. Most judges of this ilk, whether they are letting murderers out on bail or making assine decisions about Christmas tree's are so arrogant they will not even consider defending their decisions outside the courtroom.

Look, Canada was created by mainly Christian white people. They then gave the country to more Christian white people who decided that immigration was a good thing. I have no problem with that. I like the fact people come to Canada to make a better life. I don't care where they are from, but ONE stinking thing they should also know is that our culture was here from the start. The only people in this land who I give credit for being here first are our First Nations, and I don't see them whining about stinking Christmas tree's in public buildings. ENOUGH of this PC crap. IT is Christmas in Canada every December. People like it, even those who were not even Christian to start with. For you whiners who have to enforce every single nuance of this non-religious tyranny on the rest of us, kiss my heiney. It is a tree, get over it. It in itself isn't even a Christian symbol truth be told.

As for politically correct judges, well, there will be a special place in hell for your ilk, and I hope when you get there, all the other lawyers join ya...

 

[The Daulfin]

Protect your Private Religion, but don't trod on others.
After all, you're not First Nation People. You surpressed
their religious beliefs as did we in the US. Why play the
hypocracy game? You're not First Nation, you're ancestry
are emigrees. Closing the door behind you to all others, eh!

All irrelevant. Catholicism is the only religion entrenched and protected in the Canadian Constitution and as such one can easily make a case that Canadian constitutional rights have now been trampled by this misguided judge. Well, except for the fact that the "Christmas tree" is actually a historically pagan symbol (go ahead and look it up) and thus is fair game for removal constitutionally. Funny as the irony may seem, the star or angel at the top would actually protect it from removal, not damn it (from a strictly legal point of view).

As for the First Nations, they emigrated here too from Asia via the Bering Strait (again, feel free to go look it up). They are the even bigger hypocrits as a result.

In closing, the judge should have her head examined and stop wasting our taxpayer dollars with this shit until an actual complaint is made. She clearly should be reprimanded.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

All irrelevant. Catholicism is the only religion entrenched and protected in the Canadian Constitution

And don't you forget it.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

Just keep your authentic traditions out of the
courts and other offices of governance.

Señor Quijote, no es actitud muy católico. ¿Olvide usted que un caballero se debe de defender no sola a las mujeres, sino también la iglesia? No me force a excommunicarle a usted.

¡Viva la santa inquisición!