Okay thanks Groggy. The Sun article mentions that $320M will be going towards the Kennedy Stn redevelopment costs.
Toronto council votes in favour of Scarborough subway in major victory for Rob Ford
- Thread starter boodog
- Start date
How? Development costs?!If Rob Ford has the city council re-visit the Casino in Woodbine Racetrack and approve it and other auxilliary entertainment complex, there will be enough money for the capital carrying cost and finish the subway project.
$54 m a year for Holding Fee plus additional annual property tax on the Casino building and other casino-related entertainment property. Totalling $70-80 m a year (may add even more from other operation licensing fee from shops, cafe, restaurant for example) very conservative estimate? Plus one time developement fee from casino building and other entertainment and shopping complex. The city can pay off this budget gap of $1 b in less than 10 years or the third or fourth year of the new subway operation.
As if Ford has any spine.Maybe not.
Remember, the Liberal government at Queen's Park has no principles and no spine. Ford may very well get what he wants.
The man voted against his own budget and voted against subways before.
But it doesn't sound like Wynn will move, Flaherty isn't in a rush to bail him out and now Mississauga is getting all pissed off that Toronto could be hogging all the cash.
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2013/07/19/mississauga_to_toronto_wait_your_turn_for_more_transit_cash.html
Its going to be another loss for Ford.
Don't be so sure.But it doesn't sound like Wynne will move....
On CP-24 earlier today, Transportation Minister Glen Murray said: "We're gonna have a subway."
Talk is cheap (especially for Liberals - sorry couldn't resist he he).Don't be so sure.
On CP-24 earlier today, Transportation Minister Glen Murray said: "We're gonna have a subway."
The Liberal Minister of Transportation claims the province is paying 2/3 of new subway cost at $1.4b (Didn't he also claim the total cost is $2.4b?) so where do you get this $2.8b?The $1-1.5 billion is difference in costs estimated between subway and LRT for Scarborough, the total cost is around $2.8 billion for a subway.
The Ontario government has committed $1.8 billion to the LRT expansion and transit projects, but now says only $1.4 billion can be transferred to LRT, due to costs of conversions and expenses spent already.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2013/07/18/toronto-subway-murray-scarborough.html
Ford wants Ontario and the feds to pay for pretty much all of it, with his token 'skin in the game' a relative pittance.
Ontario won't commit more then $1.4 billion and Flaherty would allow $333 million to be taken from Sheppard but won't commit any new money, it appears.
Which makes the subway dead in the ground, and the LRT will happen by default.
Another loss looming for Ford.
Let's hope his math is correct. Thanks.The Liberal Minister of Transportation claims the province is paying 2/3 of new subway cost at $1.4b (Didn't he also claim the total cost is $2.4b?) so where do you get this $2.8b?
How? Development costs?!
Sorry I mean Developement Charge the City levies on all new construction including the land transfer tax.
Well, I'm learning. How much are we talking about? $400MIL?Sorry I mean Developement Charge the City levies on all new construction including the land transfer tax.
Precisely I don't know. But In Mississauga which is part of Peel region, $150,000 10 years ago for $3m developement.Well, I'm learning. How much are we talking about? $400MIL?
The Leafs win the Stanley cup and the subway is still not completed. Look back to this statement in the year 2048.
No he's still stupid. Wonder how long it's going to take to build this subway. I'm expecting not to be alive when it's completed and i'm still in my young 30's.27 councillors across the political spectrum support him.
They are confident.
Go ahead and ask them where the money come from.
You might think Rob Ford is stupid but all councillors were equipped with reliable informations and they debated thoroughly.
The 28-16 vote is a major victory for Mayor Rob Ford who isn't that stupid afterall.
No he's still stupid. Wonder how long it's going to take to build this subway. I'm expecting not to be alive when it's completed and i'm still in my young 30's.
Well that makes 28 Councillors stupid as well! No wonder Ford wants to downsize council to 22.
Let private companies build roads from now on. Let them pay market rates for the land too. Why are we subsidising cars?Let private companies build and run our subway system and they will attract development along the subway lines.
The councilors know what is up, you can tell by the conditions they put on the subway passing. I'm sure they know that there is no reasonable way to fund it without killing other projects or getting new money in. Vote for subway and then they can blame the whole disaster on Ford. His plan, his fate. When it fails it will be on his shoulder, and at least they were smart enough to put a deadline on it as well so it can't drag on.Well that makes 28 Councillors stupid as well! No wonder Ford wants to downsize council to 22.
Ford has been outplayed, putting all his will into a doomed plan.
If this falls apart, it will be Wynne who wears it.Ford has been outplayed, putting all his will into a doomed plan.
Few people are going to understand how a government that can squander billions on utterly useless windmills couldn't find an extra $400 million to pay for something important such as transit.
+1If this falls apart, it will be Wynne who wears it.
Few people are going to understand how a government that can squander billions on utterly useless windmills couldn't find an extra $400 million to pay for something important such as transit.
No matter what happens Ford will use this as a cudgel, his base will lap it up, and he may actually get public buy in.
-If they find the money: "Ford builds Subway"
-If they take the money from another project: "For Builds Subway" (and you won't hear much about, 'Those whiny bastards over there'.)
-If they end up with LRT, Ford will talk about elites and bullies, and depriving the poor folks in Scarborough.
-If the whole thing gets scrapped because of dithering, Ford will talk about elites and bullies, and depriving the poor folks in Scarborough.
Ford nation will think so. Thinking so will be obligatory.If this falls apart, it will be Wynne who wears it.
For the rest of us, it's another $85 million wasted by Ford, to add on to the hundreds of millions he has already cost us in prior cancellations.
I remember how Ford nation used to tell us all that the streetcar contracts could be cancelled without any real cost because those companies would be falling over themselves to build subways instead. Well, we just paid it. And we will just pay this $85 million.
Ford is fucking expensive. Hundreds of millions in cancellation fees with NOTHING to show for it -- my god.
In a perfect world, we would all be paying the true cost of things including transportation I.e. no subsidies or artificially lowering our raising prices and credit would be harder to obtain. That would cause people to think a lot more about the choices they make.Let private companies build roads from now on. Let them pay market rates for the land too. Why are we subsidising cars?
It won't just be Ford Nation.Ford nation will think so. Thinking so will be obligatory.
Wynne has talked a big game about her commitment to transit. And $400 million is nothing compared with the amounts that regularly get wasted by the Liberal government (eg., windmills, doubling up on teachers and ECEs in kindergarten classes, etc.).
If Wynne can't deliver, I think you can say goodbye to the Big Move.
