OMG, I'm not questioning that. I'm just saying the law is now in a paradox where not only is it illegal to buy a legal service, but you can be charged for failing to pay for something you will be charged with if you do buy it anyway. The law is an ass and it should be made legal for every side if you're going to charge someone for theft/fraud.
Toronto area man charged after allegedly failing to pay for sexual services
- Thread starter canada-man
- Start date
It’s not really that much of a paradox.
unenforced laws happened. Have you ever been given a warning for speeding?
I agree the law is stupid, but it was created to protect sex workers (by allowing them to work openly, safely) and at the same time criminalize clients who they see as the bad guys in all this. Stupid, and why can’t 2 adults decide on the terms around them having sex?
but that is what the law is. Legal to sell, illegal To buy.
The discussion was about the drug dealer ripping off the customer.
If you're referring to what I posted I meant the drug purchaser not paying the dealer. That may have been a bad example but I've never heard of someone being charged criminally for not paying for a service rendered. It's my understanding that's civil litigation so the service provider would file a lawsuit for the funds owed.
Drug dealers have their own methods of collecting money owed…
His intent was to pay as expressed to the person providing the service. It's like going to a restaruant, you order the food, you eat it. If you don't pay you stole the the food.The guys seems to be a grade A scumbag and has a history of ripping people off.
However am a bit confused. So he did not pay the sex worker, so it means he technically did not purchase sex. So how can purchasing sex and not purchasing sex both be a crime?
Just legalize the damn thing already.
I was wondering that myself. To think they are probably someone already in a hard spot and then this asshole does this to them. Not cool.
I believe the story to be real though.
With countless threads in all sections about personal hygiene of client and SP , from the mug shot of this scum bag, an hour in a car wash may not have bee sufficient.
Story can be true, but with a crack head or alcoholic.
Since when did "play now, pay later" start ? Unless I am wrong, the donation is up front and then the show starts.
Story can be true, but with a crack head or alcoholic.
Since when did "play now, pay later" start ? Unless I am wrong, the donation is up front and then the show starts.
The drug dealer finds you and pops two bullets between your eyes and anyone else with you. Debt collected.
Suppose he argues that he was not happy with the “service” in graphic detail and thus did not pay ?
How can someone be charged with not paying for an illegal service by LE ? The accused will be incriminating himself under Bill C-36 . Perhaps the accused should sue Durham LE and the sex workers go after the guy in civil court or send him to “ collections”
What a waste of taxpayer money and court resources !!!!
How can someone be charged with not paying for an illegal service by LE ? The accused will be incriminating himself under Bill C-36 . Perhaps the accused should sue Durham LE and the sex workers go after the guy in civil court or send him to “ collections”
What a waste of taxpayer money and court resources !!!!
It is not “purchasing” sexual services. It is “obtaining” sexual services. Too completely different things. He is can be guilty of obtaining and not paying. It is not that hard to figure out.
You don’t send a shoplifter to collections, you send them to jail. Seems like you think he should not be charged at all and should be able to basically get away with not paying escort.
I don't think the argument is that he shouldn't be charged, although I do agree that it is more a civil litigation issue than a criminal one. As was pointed out, not paying for a service is generally not a criminal issue. I wish it were as I would love to be able to have the deadbeats that stiff me charged as opposed to having to file a suit against them.
I just wish they would end the double standard. I understand that Bill C-36 was to protect sex workers but for every client that stiffs, pun intended, a sex worker I would bet that there are 10+ 'Johns' that get stiffed/robbed/scammed by so called sex workers. The sad part is, the John is expected to suck it up and move on but the sex worker has the option to call the police.
I don't think anyone can argue that it's not a level playing field.
It was not a level playing field for years for us. It is not like we don’t know what it is like to be on the shit end of the stick. And I think you are totally over estimating your numbers. But at least you don’t have to worry about buying raped or murdered so you have that bonus going for you. Bottomline - we all accept the risk. You don’t need to pay for sex. You can use your hand or find free sex. Not being rude. Just being factual.
And our “service” is different. We don’t bill. We get paid right away. Like a restaurant. If you don’t pay for your meal, you get arrested. This is criminal. Not civil. All the way. I don’t see how you can see it any differently.
There are many variations. If a provider requires a deposit and then ghosts, what then? As for risk of being assaulted, read the thread about the guy who got pistol whipped by a pimp and robbed for everything in his wallet. Is that not a risk? So saying that we don't have to deal with risk while engaging in this hobby is not being factual. Also, at a restaurant if I don't pay I have stolen product that could have been sold to someone else. The service you provide, if not paid for, is just theft of time. I have my time wasted regularly and I can't have the perpetrator charged. At least if it was legal you would have a basis for chasing after payment for all the no shows and false bookings that are constantly complained about.
I will gladly acknowledge the fact that I didn't base my numbers on any real statistics because you will never find 'real' numbers to use. I'm sure that, much like the number of rapes that are reported, the number of assaults/robberies of Johns are under reported. Even on a site like this one, I'm sure that most members would be too ashamed of what happened to own up to it.
IMHO, sex work should absolutely be legalized. Screw the whole 'decriminalized' crap that is spouted. Make it legal, invoice it like any other business, and either build in the HST or have it added on as it is with any other service out there. I think there is a strong argument to be made that a regular sex life, paid or otherwise, is essential for mental health. Intimate connection with another human being is good for a number of things that I don't have the time or inclination to look up right now but I think it would be a net positive for the government to legalize it. Collect their HST and allow individuals to claim it as a medical expense.
So you are willing to have us have detailed records, which can be submitted to the government upon request at any time? I think you are on an island alone on that one. LOL
If it is legalized, why not? I can't see the government sharing that kind of information with the general public as it would be confidential financial information for the purpose of verifying income that you declare. It may also be a forced sharing with Health Canada. If it is mandatory for anyone engaged in sex work to have regular checks for STD's, Health Canada may follow up with any and all customers on a positive result for certain STD's, or STI's, whatever you want to call them.
I'm sure there are a number of people that would be hesitant about providers being given all of our personal data but I'm sure I'm not alone on my island in feeling that things are drastically slanted against us in the current framework. Plus, if everything is legalized we, the customer, could start to demand that the providers we see, and share information with, are insured and that we have standard NDA's in place to protect us. That way if you 'leak' our information and it causes us hardship, we can sue you and be satisfied by your insurer. We wouldn't have to worry that the provider would just declare bankruptcy to avoid having to pay up.
You might be right that a majority wouldn't be happy about it but when things change you either adapt or quit. No real difference here that I can see. To quote your earlier statement, "Bottomline - we all accept the risk. You don’t need to pay for sex. You can use your hand or find free sex. Not being rude. Just being factual."
