You always blame Jews when Palestinians forces commit atrocities. Sadly your elitist racism has you believing Palestinians are so far beneath you they can't be held responsible for their choices.
The Israel Lobby
- Thread starter southpaw
- Start date
Why do you keep trying to claim that Palestinians chose to live under an apartheid occupation, have their land stolen from them, their rights stripped and their families killed?
You really think Palestinians chose the occupation and zionist colonization?
Its all the same, Ben Gurion preached terrorism.
And its been going on since.
Palestinian leadership sure prefers continual violence to accepting that Jews live there. And 75% of Palestinians don't want a peace that includes a Jewish presence.
But you have to ignore that for the same reason you need top believe that American Jews (and any terb poster you disagree with) are all really working for Israel.
Sure, and only 4% of Israelis trust Netanyahu and 4/5 want him to resign.
Most of them want more genocide, though.
Palestinians don't want to be occupied, live under apartheid or in a concentration camp Israel is turning into a death camp.
The world voted against Israel, only Biden is stopping action now.
This is what you keep arguing for more of to happen.
This is what you claim Palestinians want.
HASBARA'S EASY WIN: Just 11 emails kill SANTA'S GIG!
He Was Set to Play Santa. His Views on the Middle East Got in the Way.
Ken Dorph had grown out his white beard, but a tense discussion of the Israel-Hamas war at a local synagogue led to complaints that cost him the gig.
The Sag Harbor Chamber of Commerce replaced Ken Dorph a few days before its holiday event, opting for an “anonymous Santa.”Credit...Lindsay Morris for The New York Times
- Share full article
By Andrew Keh
- Dec. 15, 2023
In the months since the beginning of the Israel-Hamas war, disputes over the boundaries of political expression have cost prominent people their jobs in fields like show business, publishing and academia.
Last week, these clashes left another famous figure suddenly out of work: Santa Claus.
This very 2023 Christmas tale took place in Sag Harbor, a village on Long Island, where a longtime resident named Ken Dorph had been hired as a volunteer to wear the iconic red costume at an event hosted by the local chamber of commerce.
The plan was for Santa to ride majestically atop a fire truck to the village’s picturesque windmill, where the spreading of joy would commence. Mr. Dorph, 70, had previously played Santa at a gathering last year at the town’s cinema, and even given an interview in character to a local paper. In other words, he took the Santa stuff very seriously.
“I normally have a professionally trimmed beard, but I was growing it out,” he said. “I looked like Santa.”
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But on Dec. 6, three days before the jamboree, Mr. Dorph received an email from the president of the chamber of commerce, telling him he had been relieved of his duties. She offered no explanation, he said, beyond saying he was too outspoken for the gig.
The truth was, when word got out that he would be Santa this year, a group of people from a local synagogue, Temple Adas Israel, sent a flurry of emails to the event organizers objecting to his selection.
Sign up for the New York Today Newsletter Each morning, get the latest on New York businesses, arts, sports, dining, style and more. Get it sent to your inbox.
Mr. Dorph, they said, had made people uncomfortable during a Nov. 30 talk at the synagogue about the Israel-Hamas crisis, sharply criticizing a pair of speakers from the American Jewish Committee, a nonprofit advocacy group that supports Jewish people and Israel, from his seat in the audience.
“He was very antagonistic, belittling them,” said Rona Klopman, 85, a member of the temple who attended the event virtually but was not involved in the email campaign. “I could see why people would not be comfortable with him as Santa, who is supposed to be this jolly fellow trying to keep peace in the world.”
Fluent in Arabic, Mr. Dorph fostered an interest in the Middle East over more than four decades working frequently in the region as a consultant in the financial sector. Beyond his day job, he regularly gives talks as an expert on the subject, believing Arab cultures and the Middle East are gravely misunderstood.
“I love Israel, and I love Palestine, and I do not think those are contradictory thoughts and emotions,” he said in October at a local speaking engagement.
Mr. Dorph attended the talk at the synagogue — titled “Answering Tough Questions on Israel” — as a guest of a member.
Israel-Hamas War: Live Updates
Updated
Dec. 15, 2023, 7:09 a.m. ET2 hours ago
2 hours ago
- Sullivan sidesteps questions over a timetable for scaling back Israel’s military campaign.
- Israeli forces recover the bodies of three hostages in Gaza.
- Satellite imagery and videos show cemeteries in Gaza razed by Israeli ground forces.
A video of the event viewed by The New York Times confirmed that Mr. Dorph on multiple occasions voiced frustration with the content of the A.J.C.’s hourlong presentation. The atmosphere remained mostly civil, but the room at times grew tense.
Mr. Dorph, who emphasized that he was heartbroken by the war and “desperately” wanted it to end, objected during the event to the speakers’ characterizations of several topics — the exact language of the Hamas charter, the relevance of the West Bank settlements to the current conflict. When called on during a question-and-answer session, he implied they were feeding the audience political talking points.
“Honestly, you two could have been propaganda for the Netanyahu government,” he said, referring to Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli leader. “I am appalled.”
ADVERTISEMENT
SKIP ADVERTISEMENT
Certain audience members were visibly taken aback by Mr. Dorph’s comments. The guest speakers engaged politely, but sternly, with Mr. Dorph each time he spoke up, and the session ended without other issues.
Mr. Dorph acknowledged later that he should have just left. Given the title of the talk, he said he had expected a forum for debate. Instead, he said, it felt more like a workshop designed to equip pro-Israel attendees with responses to touchy questions about the conflict.
“I never said a curse word or stood up or threatened anyone, but it was hot under the collar, and I regret that,” Mr. Dorph said.
But the damage was done.
Ellen Dioguardi, the president of the chamber of commerce, said in a statement that she had received 11 emails from synagogue members requesting they “find a different Santa.” Some parents said they would not come to the Christmas event if Mr. Dorph were there. It was by far the most complaints the organization had ever received about any issue, she said.
“We were able to find an anonymous Santa Claus free of distraction, and had a great event focused on the simple joy and wonder that is the holiday season,” her statement read.
ADVERTISEMENT
SKIP ADVERTISEMENT
The Dec. 9 gathering otherwise proceeded as planned, even though the alternate Santa had unfortunately shaved his beard, thinking his services were not needed this year. Mr. Dorph stayed home and made a gingerbread house. But restlessness in the community has lingered.
“If we’re going to have a democracy, even if it’s angry exchanges, we need to be able to have these conversations without being punished,” Mr. Dorph said.
Rabbi Daniel Geffen of Temple Adas Israel said the temple’s leadership had not been involved in the email campaign. He rued the turn of events, but, conceding he was “not an expert on Santa,” offered a slightly different lesson: Acknowledging that free speech was indeed part of the “beauty of democracy,” he suggested it also required “taking responsibility for not just what we say, but how we say it and when we say it.”
Mr. Dorph has no ill feelings toward the chamber of commerce or the rabbi. The episode, while disheartening, has inspired him to keep educating people about Arab cultures, perhaps through a website or podcast. He said he was proud to stand out in his close-knit community — among other things as a gay, white father of two Black adopted children — and that he would keep sharing his views on anything, with anyone.
And despite feeling down, he appreciates the absurdity of the situation, too. This was not the first time, he pointed out, that Saint Nick had lost his job.
“In ‘Miracle on 34th Street,’ Santa was canceled because he was drunk,” he said, referring to the classic holiday film. But Mr. Dorph was not on Santa duty that night at the synagogue: “I was canceled because I said something in a completely independent setting.”
Andrew Keh is a sports reporter in New York. He was previously an international correspondent based in Berlin and has reported from more than 25 countries. More about Andrew Keh
- Share full article
People who publicly portray Santa Claus as someone's employee are doing it for the sake of commerce - whether it's for a specific store, a shopping mall, or local chamber of commerce. If the person who is going to play the role is bad for business, they have to go. Simple as that. Any person who is recognizable in the community as someone other than Santa is probably bad for business. This person made themselves a publicly recognizable person. I completely understand the decision to turf him.HASBARA'S EASY WIN: Just 11 emails kill SANTA'S GIG!
He Was Set to Play Santa. His Views on the Middle East Got in the Way.
Ken Dorph had grown out his white beard, but a tense discussion of the Israel-Hamas war at a local synagogue led to complaints that cost him the gig.
The Sag Harbor Chamber of Commerce replaced Ken Dorph a few days before its holiday event, opting for an “anonymous Santa.”Credit...Lindsay Morris for The New York Times
- Share full article
By Andrew Keh
- Dec. 15, 2023
In the months since the beginning of the Israel-Hamas war, disputes over the boundaries of political expression have cost prominent people their jobs in fields like show business, publishing and academia.
Last week, these clashes left another famous figure suddenly out of work: Santa Claus.
This very 2023 Christmas tale took place in Sag Harbor, a village on Long Island, where a longtime resident named Ken Dorph had been hired as a volunteer to wear the iconic red costume at an event hosted by the local chamber of commerce.
The plan was for Santa to ride majestically atop a fire truck to the village’s picturesque windmill, where the spreading of joy would commence. Mr. Dorph, 70, had previously played Santa at a gathering last year at the town’s cinema, and even given an interview in character to a local paper. In other words, he took the Santa stuff very seriously.
“I normally have a professionally trimmed beard, but I was growing it out,” he said. “I looked like Santa.”
ADVERTISEMENT
SKIP ADVERTISEMENT
But on Dec. 6, three days before the jamboree, Mr. Dorph received an email from the president of the chamber of commerce, telling him he had been relieved of his duties. She offered no explanation, he said, beyond saying he was too outspoken for the gig.
The truth was, when word got out that he would be Santa this year, a group of people from a local synagogue, Temple Adas Israel, sent a flurry of emails to the event organizers objecting to his selection.
Sign up for the New York Today Newsletter Each morning, get the latest on New York businesses, arts, sports, dining, style and more. Get it sent to your inbox.
Mr. Dorph, they said, had made people uncomfortable during a Nov. 30 talk at the synagogue about the Israel-Hamas crisis, sharply criticizing a pair of speakers from the American Jewish Committee, a nonprofit advocacy group that supports Jewish people and Israel, from his seat in the audience.
“He was very antagonistic, belittling them,” said Rona Klopman, 85, a member of the temple who attended the event virtually but was not involved in the email campaign. “I could see why people would not be comfortable with him as Santa, who is supposed to be this jolly fellow trying to keep peace in the world.”
Fluent in Arabic, Mr. Dorph fostered an interest in the Middle East over more than four decades working frequently in the region as a consultant in the financial sector. Beyond his day job, he regularly gives talks as an expert on the subject, believing Arab cultures and the Middle East are gravely misunderstood.
“I love Israel, and I love Palestine, and I do not think those are contradictory thoughts and emotions,” he said in October at a local speaking engagement.
Mr. Dorph attended the talk at the synagogue — titled “Answering Tough Questions on Israel” — as a guest of a member.
Israel-Hamas War: Live Updates
Updated
Dec. 15, 2023, 7:09 a.m. ET2 hours ago
2 hours ago
- Sullivan sidesteps questions over a timetable for scaling back Israel’s military campaign.
- Israeli forces recover the bodies of three hostages in Gaza.
- Satellite imagery and videos show cemeteries in Gaza razed by Israeli ground forces.
A video of the event viewed by The New York Times confirmed that Mr. Dorph on multiple occasions voiced frustration with the content of the A.J.C.’s hourlong presentation. The atmosphere remained mostly civil, but the room at times grew tense.
Mr. Dorph, who emphasized that he was heartbroken by the war and “desperately” wanted it to end, objected during the event to the speakers’ characterizations of several topics — the exact language of the Hamas charter, the relevance of the West Bank settlements to the current conflict. When called on during a question-and-answer session, he implied they were feeding the audience political talking points.
“Honestly, you two could have been propaganda for the Netanyahu government,” he said, referring to Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli leader. “I am appalled.”
ADVERTISEMENT
SKIP ADVERTISEMENT
Certain audience members were visibly taken aback by Mr. Dorph’s comments. The guest speakers engaged politely, but sternly, with Mr. Dorph each time he spoke up, and the session ended without other issues.
Mr. Dorph acknowledged later that he should have just left. Given the title of the talk, he said he had expected a forum for debate. Instead, he said, it felt more like a workshop designed to equip pro-Israel attendees with responses to touchy questions about the conflict.
“I never said a curse word or stood up or threatened anyone, but it was hot under the collar, and I regret that,” Mr. Dorph said.
But the damage was done.
Ellen Dioguardi, the president of the chamber of commerce, said in a statement that she had received 11 emails from synagogue members requesting they “find a different Santa.” Some parents said they would not come to the Christmas event if Mr. Dorph were there. It was by far the most complaints the organization had ever received about any issue, she said.
“We were able to find an anonymous Santa Claus free of distraction, and had a great event focused on the simple joy and wonder that is the holiday season,” her statement read.
ADVERTISEMENT
SKIP ADVERTISEMENT
The Dec. 9 gathering otherwise proceeded as planned, even though the alternate Santa had unfortunately shaved his beard, thinking his services were not needed this year. Mr. Dorph stayed home and made a gingerbread house. But restlessness in the community has lingered.
“If we’re going to have a democracy, even if it’s angry exchanges, we need to be able to have these conversations without being punished,” Mr. Dorph said.
Rabbi Daniel Geffen of Temple Adas Israel said the temple’s leadership had not been involved in the email campaign. He rued the turn of events, but, conceding he was “not an expert on Santa,” offered a slightly different lesson: Acknowledging that free speech was indeed part of the “beauty of democracy,” he suggested it also required “taking responsibility for not just what we say, but how we say it and when we say it.”
Mr. Dorph has no ill feelings toward the chamber of commerce or the rabbi. The episode, while disheartening, has inspired him to keep educating people about Arab cultures, perhaps through a website or podcast. He said he was proud to stand out in his close-knit community — among other things as a gay, white father of two Black adopted children — and that he would keep sharing his views on anything, with anyone.
And despite feeling down, he appreciates the absurdity of the situation, too. This was not the first time, he pointed out, that Saint Nick had lost his job.
“In ‘Miracle on 34th Street,’ Santa was canceled because he was drunk,” he said, referring to the classic holiday film. But Mr. Dorph was not on Santa duty that night at the synagogue: “I was canceled because I said something in a completely independent setting.”
Andrew Keh is a sports reporter in New York. He was previously an international correspondent based in Berlin and has reported from more than 25 countries. More about Andrew Keh
- Share full article
There is no limit to the amount of genocide you will support, nor any limit to the method.
Bombing women and children you love.
Starving, depriving them of clean water and medical care is right up your alley.
And now you get to do your happy dance to trying to kill them all through disease.
So your excuse for avoiding that 75% of Palestinians and all of their leadership hate the idea of peace alongside Jews is to say that Netanyahu will likely be destroyed in their next election?
if you wanted a negotiated peace, you'd be happy that Netanyahu will likely lose power but we know the only peace you support is the one that 75% of Palestinians support, ethnic cleansing of Jews.
A reminder, this didn't start on oct 7.
Right now Palestinians are justifiably distrustful and hateful of the zionist movement that is committing genocide on them right now.
Nobody should expect otherwise.
Turning things around will take longer the more this genocide continues.
The more it continues the more Israelis should end up behind bars and the bigger the restitution should be towards Palestinians after zionism is ended as a movement.
It took a long time for Rwanda to get over their genocide but this will take decades of long and hard work.
Killing Palestinians will not lead to peace.
Genocide, apartheid and ethnic cleansing will only lead to the end of the zionist movement.
Yes. 75% hate the idea of living alongside Jews. If you actually think a One State peace is the way to go, you'd be criticizing the Palestinian leadership and people for hating it. But instead you just make clear that you hate the idea of Jews being there as much as they do.
Part of Rwanda (or Ireland) getting past their ethnic conflict was admitting the others had a right to be there, something Hamas, the PA, the Palestinian populace, and you refuse to do.
Part of getting past this will be Israelis accepting that Palestinians have the right to be there as well, and not just in a bantustan/concentration camp, but as full citizens with equal rights.
Something you've called 'genocide' previously.
You need to get over your hate just as much as Hamas.
Palestinians are justified now in their hate, they are the victims of genocide like the Jews were in WWII.
How do you think Israel is going to eventually make ammends?
It would be like any other part of the world, with it's own conflicts, issues and problems. But it would be their problems, for them to sort out.
The US got out of Vietnam and Afghanistan. But they can never get out of the Israel-Palestine conflict. Why? Because of the Israel Lobby.
But the Bible, THE BIBLE, says you have a right to the land, even though the Romans booted you out...
Ah, the nonsense excuses to avoid commenting on what I posted.
And the need to claim anyone who disagrees with you is a Jew.
They generally do.
Sadly you refuse to comment on 75% of Palestinians as well as much of the PA and all of Hamas r3efuse to accept living either in a state where Jews live or beside a state with Jews.
p.s. Israelis are justified in their hate too having lived through 100 years of Palestinians militants attacking them based on their religion. The Irish managed to get past it so there's no excuse other than Palestinians not wanting to live with Jews.
I did comment, Israel is committing genocide on Palestinians, they have all the justification for hate possible. Its going to take years to get past this and every day it goes on peace will be harder.
It was never about religion, as you said it was about a foreign colonial movement coming and stealing their land then ruling them through a brutal apartheid occupation, not religion.
