The 2024 US Presidential election

[Butler1000]

Now you keep on changing what I said. So once again stop lying as I stated that in the States that do not require voter ID is how it was implemented from the time that Voting was written into their Constitution. It is up to those States whether they want to change their Protocols or not as it is not mandated. It has not been proven in 60 plus Court cases that it resulted in "voter fraud", so what is your issue? The Electoral college to me is a much bigger issue than Voter ID, okay, as it does not reflect the margin of victory by the present incumbent as he is one of the few presidents that has not received the 50% majority that he boasts about!! You and scoob are bringing up some innocuous voter ID conspiracy theories when the less democratic Electoral College needs a real reform. Of course a "deflection" to only the alt righties!!

Yes. And they need to change the voter I.D laws in those states. It's that simple. The issue isn't about "following the rules". It's about changing flawed laws.

I know the last thing you want is to have voter I.D laws as it will affect votes you want to go to the Democratic Party.

As for the EC of course to should be gone. Don't be silly. But it has nothing to do with voter I.D. and btw it would be much easier to modify a State Constitution for I.D laws then to change the EC.

It's a distraction to discuss the EC. You lost. Move on.

 

[Skoob]

You are the one that is deflecting when you came up with the fake conspiracy theorist nonsense regarding this "20 million votes" hypocrisy in the first place and still cannot explain how you pulled out that number and what it is supposed to prove?

Says the guy who won't answer why he doesn't support proper voter ID for every election.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Rob Smith spitting facts

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMhWywV5J/

 

[Valcazar]

Are you really that fucking stupid? It's bver arguing WE DON'T NEED voter I.D and me saying we do.

No.
It's me answering your question about using voter ID laws to skew the results.
Try to follow the thread.

I even quoted what you said so that you wouldn't get lost.

And as to the rest, student I.D is NOT GOVT ISSUED I.D. Gun permits are. So that was a really bad Strawman on your part. Like really bad, stupid and you need to do much better.

Also, a student at a school needs to change their voter registry. All the weird state rules and all that. It's all about residency. No different Than in Canada when they ask my address and proof of it it's to ensure I am voting in the correct riding.

It really isn't complicated. Or really that political. It's basic common sense.

Might want to try to get yourself s ome

My reply wasn't about GOVT ISSUED ID.
It was about using Voter ID laws to skew the voting pool.
You know, the thing I quoted so you wouldn't get confused

I am not going to be around - (lots to do before the 21st, obviously) - so I'll walk you through it.

You mentioned the Canadian system and implied you thought it was good.

So when I vote in Canada I am required to bring photo I.D., my voter card, and proof of address. Why is this so onerous? It's a very simple thing to produce. They give you multiple options to use.

Why would only producing it once be sufficient? Do you think the poll workers remember every voter every 2 and 4 years?

That's ridiculous. Are you saying the basic requirements of pretty much every Western nation are to stringent for only the USA?

I responded that the Canadian system wasn't designed to try and use ID to skew the vote.

Canada isn't using Voter ID to try and skew the vote, though.
Try a simple thought exercise.
"They give you multiple options to use."
(They even let you vote without ID here in Canada. https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e)

What if they didn't?
What if they were very careful to restrict the options you could use?

I pointed out that one of the things you explicitly called out as a good thing in the Canadian system ("They give you multiple options to use") was at the heart of the issue.

You then feigned shock and ignorance about that being possible.

How does it skew the vote? Are you trying to say certain demographics are Incapable of presenting I.D? Other nations don't. Please explain.

I then explained that this is done by selectively targeting specific IDs.

Now, since then in the thread you have pointed out that you actually don't like the Canadian system, since it offers too many options to identify yourself, including non-government IDs.
So I freely admit that I was wrong to take your example of the Canadian system and its multiple options as praise and not criticism.

 

[Valcazar]

You Mean like proof of address? Photo I.D? You know, the shit Democrats are AGAINST?

Democrats aren't against these things.

 

[Butler1000]

No.
It's me answering your question about using voter ID laws to skew the results.
Try to follow the thread.

I even quoted what you said so that you wouldn't get lost.




My reply wasn't about GOVT ISSUED ID.
It was about using Voter ID laws to skew the voting pool.
You know, the thing I quoted so you wouldn't get confused

I am not going to be around - (lots to do before the 21st, obviously) - so I'll walk you through it.

You mentioned the Canadian system and implied you thought it was good.



I responded that the Canadian system wasn't designed to try and use ID to skew the vote.



I pointed out that one of the things you explicitly called out as a good thing in the Canadian system ("They give you multiple options to use") was at the heart of the issue.

You then feigned shock and ignorance about that being possible.



I then explained that this is done by selectively targeting specific IDs.

Now, since then in the thread you have pointed out that you actually don't like the Canadian system, since it offers too many options to identify yourself, including non-government IDs.
So I freely admit that I was wrong to take your example of the Canadian system and its multiple options as praise and not criticism.

God, what a word salad, wonder where you get that from......

 

[Butler1000]

Democrats aren't against these things.

Apparently against the use of Govt issued only I.D they are.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Democrats aren't against these things

Many Democrats are against it.
Why do you think California, NY, Oregon, Washington....etc still dont require ID to vote??

 

[Valcazar]

God, what a word salad, wonder where you get that from......

You're going to be so happy over the next month or two, with me not around.

You could have just waited for a day and ignored this instead of admitting you can't follow the thread of your own conversation.

 

[Valcazar]

Apparently against the use of Govt issued only I.D they are.

"Gov't issued only ID" - nice word salad.

But good, as always, to see you move the goalposts when I point out you're full of shit.
You can't even stick to your guns on something as simple as "proof of address? Photo I.D?".
So is your claim now that Democrats are against using government issued ID to vote?
Or are they against laws mandating using only government-issued ID to vote?

 

[Valcazar]

Many Democrats are against it.
Why do you think California, NY, Oregon, Washington....etc still dont require ID to vote??

Every single one of those states requires identification in order to register to vote.

 

[bver_hunter]

Yes. And they need to change the voter I.D laws in those states. It's that simple. The issue isn't about "following the rules". It's about changing flawed laws.

I know the last thing you want is to have voter I.D laws as it will affect votes you want to go to the Democratic Party.

As for the EC of course to should be gone. Don't be silly. But it has nothing to do with voter I.D. and btw it would be much easier to modify a State Constitution for I.D laws then to change the EC.

It's a distraction to discuss the EC. You lost. Move on.

Butler where on earth did you get the notion that the ID laws favours the Democratic Party? There were 60 plus court cases brought against the so called voter fraud, including this voter ID and yet those cases had no evidence and they were thrown out of court. What has this Voter ID got to do with me? I stated what these regulations that States implements does conform and if Voter ID has to be mandated, then so should the Electoral college that is flawed as well. Why can you not accept that simple fact......oic because to butler it favour The Republicans, and so that is why it is considered to be a "distraction". I did not lose, but you have the tail between your legs and yes.... move on!!

 

[Butler1000]

"Gov't issued only ID" - nice word salad.

But good, as always, to see you move the goalposts when I point out you're full of shit.
You can't even stick to your guns on something as simple as "proof of address? Photo I.D?".
So is your claim now that Democrats are against using government issued ID to vote?
Or are they against laws mandating using only government-issued ID to vote?

Photo I.D from a recognized and verifiable govt source. Private photo I.D is not an acceptable choice


As an example. A person could use a passport and a property tax bill. But a student I.D. no.

Cripes you can't even use an OHIP ID here.

It's not difficult. Ready it isn't.

 

[Butler1000]

You're going to be so happy over the next month or two, with me not around.

You could have just waited for a day and ignored this instead of admitting you can't follow the thread of your own conversation.

I will be indifferent. Really? You think you are that important? Have fun whatever it is you are doing. And Pleae, don't rush back on my account.

 

[Butler1000]

Butler where on earth did you get the notion that the ID laws favours the Democratic Party? There were 60 plus court cases brought against the so called voter fraud, including this voter ID and yet those cases had no evidence and they were thrown out of court. What has this Voter ID got to do with me? I stated what these regulations that States implements does conform and if Voter ID has to be mandated, then so should the Electoral college that is flawed as well. Why can you not accept that simple fact......oic because to butler it favour The Republicans, and so that is why it is considered to be a "distraction". I did not lose, but you have the tail between your legs and yes.... move on!!

Ask Val, he is one saying laws requiring ID at the polls favors the GOP.

 

[bver_hunter]

Says the guy who won't answer why he doesn't support proper voter ID for every election.

Now I get it where you came ut with this 20 Million votes numbers that you will not respond to when asked in the first place, but started this Voter ID Distraction. Here it goes:

Soon, pro-Trump influencers began sharing them to their own large audiences. Their numbers varied — some said there were 20 million "missing" Democratic votes, while some put it at 15 million, depending on how many votes had been counted for Harris at the time they were posting. But the message was consistent.

A file photo of Dinesh D'Souza from 2018.
"Where did those 20 million Democratic voters go? The truth is, they never existed. I think we can put the lie about Biden's 80 million votes to rest once and for all," wrote Dinesh D'Souza, who popularized conspiracy theories about ballot boxes after the 2020 election. His post has been viewed more than 4 million times on X.

A similar post from YouTuber Benny Johnson was viewed more than 22 million times.

The narrative took visual form in a bar chart shared by the far-right website ZeroHedge in a post that has received 20 million views. Images are a potent and easily shareable way of communicating ideas online, and the graphic comparing 2024's incomplete count with totals in 2016 and 2020 was quickly picked up and passed along by many other accounts.

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/09/nx-s1-5184405/election-2024-fraud-claims

Yes, the dude that was found guilty of violating campaign regulations and then got pardoned by Trumpty Dumpty.
He produced that 20,000 or so mules documentary with all the conspiracy theories that the far right website called ZeroHedge magnified and skoob bought it!!

 

[squeezer]

Elon Musk Has ‘MASSIVE BLOWUP’ With Trump Staff! | The Kyle Kulinski Show

 

[bver_hunter]

Ask Val, he is one saying laws requiring ID at the polls favors the GOP.

For once go by the facts butler:

In the first two decades of the twenty-first century, many American state governments implemented voter identification (ID) laws for elections held in their states. These laws, which commonly mandate photo ID and/or require significant effort by voters lacking ID, sparked an ongoing national debate over the tension between election security and access in a democratic society. The laws’ proponents—primarily politicians in the Republican Party—claim that they prevent voter fraud, while Democratic opponents denounce the disproportionate burden they place on historically disadvantaged groups such as the poor and people of color. While these positions may reflect sincerely held beliefs, they also align with the political parties’ rational electoral strategies because the groups most likely to be disenfranchised by the laws tend to support Democratic candidates. Are these partisan views on the impact of voter ID correct? Existing research focuses on how voter ID laws affect voter turnout and fraud. But the extent to which they produce observable electoral benefits for Republican candidates and/or penalize Democrats remains an open question. We examine how voter ID impacts the parties’ electoral fortunes in races at the state level (state legislatures and governorships) and federal level (United States Congress and president) during 2003 to 2020. Our results suggest negligible average effects but with some heterogeneity over time. The first laws implemented produced a Democratic advantage, which weakened to near zero after 2012. We conclude that voter ID requirements motivate and mobilize supporters of both parties, ultimately mitigating their anticipated effects on election results.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2217323120

On the other hand :

Majority of Americans continue to favor moving away from Electoral College

• In 2020, while President Joe Biden won the popular vote by more than 7 million votes, his Electoral College victory was decided by fewer than 50,000 votes in a few close states.

Majority of Americans continue to favor moving away from Electoral College

63% of U.S. adults say the way the president is elected should be changed so that the winner of the popular vote nationwide wins the presidency.

www.pewresearch.org

That is why the Electoral College Reform makes much more total sense. it's present Protocols in the various States are not consistent!!

You lost once again butler!!

 

[JohnLarue]

Ask Val, he is one saying laws requiring ID at the polls favors the GOP.

laws requiring ID at the polls favours no one except the electorate
having a secure voting system gives each voter confidence their vote counts and matters

apparently a lot of deceased people voted in the 1960s presidential election, which was a close one
no indication of which side was the beneficiary of the ghost vote other than Chicagoland apparently had a lot of politically active graveyards

now how can one keep up-to-date on events and carefully consider candidate platforms and policies if one...... is dead?
Ghosts cant carry ID

 

[Butler1000]

For once go by the facts butler:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2217323120

On the other hand :

Majority of Americans continue to favor moving away from Electoral College

Majority of Americans continue to favor moving away from Electoral College

63% of U.S. adults say the way the president is elected should be changed so that the winner of the popular vote nationwide wins the presidency.

www.pewresearch.org

That is why the Electoral College Reform makes much more total sense. it's present Protocols in the various States are not consistent!!

You lost once again butler!!

Once again. You are Completely clueless, off topic, not understanding the thread, and off in your own little world