I especially like their spiral of granola on page 7 of the guidelines. Depending on the kind of day I'm having, I'm either a level 1 or level 2.
Teachers to Boycott After School Programs
- Thread starter GameBoy27
- Start date
FrankJohn.
You forget that the average taxpayer is just part of the government's revenue. You have forgotten about taxes from big businesses.
For example.
Canadian banks reported a 22 billion dollar profit
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/12/06/bank-profits.html
And somehow I'm the one who doesn't understand taxes and business.
The business community certainly does not want to shell out more taxes to maintain teachers pay @ 83K
In fact you you will get a colder response from them than from the 83% of the general public who believe your plan is a bad one
Business leaders are far more concerned about the government's deficit than you will ever know
They want a stable enviorment to operate in
Now if you idea is to raise tax corporations in order to maintain the status quo, then you will have a very nasty fight on your hands because that is a potential job killer
Do not go there
And yes apparently you do not understand taxes and business at all
Frank
The business community certainly does not want to shell out more taxes to maintain teachers pay @ 83K
In fact you you will get a colder response from them than from the 83% of the general public who believe your plan is a bad one
Business leaders are far more concerned about the government's deficit than you will ever know
They want a stable enviorment to operate in
Now if you idea is to raise tax corporations in order to maintain the status quo, then you will have a very nasty fight on your hands because that is a potential job killer
Do not go there
And yes apparently you do not understand taxes and business at all
So corporations are using people and their families as pawns..... those devils.
If they are concerned about hte deficit then help out.
And your 83% is not the general public..... it's 83% of computer using hobbiests who spend time on politics threads. This is a particular subset of the population and their views are not necessarily in line with the public. Again not only do you create a biased poll you then interpret it incorrectly...... embarrassing.
For three years you've started nothing but anti union threads and shared crass jokes. Guess when you stopped reviewing in 2009 you had a lot of time on your hands.
Dwight Duncan announces a pay freeze for public sector executives by placing a cap on salaries at 418K per year plus bonuses. Of course if the executive is currently earning more than 418K he gets to keep his extra pay & bonuses. All new hires in Ontario will be subject to the cap of 418K. Well that's not necessarily true. If the agency, board or hospital doing the hiring feels that market conditions merit a higher pay the cap does not apply. The 418K can be exceeded. I can see it now, any public service executive who wants to get a pay increase only has to resign his position and then be hired back at a "market" level salary that is higher than his "capped" pay. Then of course there is the matter of the servence pay he will collect when he "resigns". Meanwhile we screw the 2nd year teacher making the ungodly salary of 35K per year. YES all is well in Dalton's Ontario of severe restraint. Must remember to become a Liberal party member.
To be fair it's more like 45 to 50K for a second year teacher. But I get your point.Dwight Duncan announces a pay freeze for public sector executives by placing a cap on salaries at 418K per year plus bonuses. Of course if the executive is currently earning more than 418K he gets to keep his extra pay & bonuses. All new hires in Ontario will be subject to the cap of 418K. Well that's not necessarily true. If the agency, board or hospital doing the hiring feels that market conditions merit a higher pay the cap does not apply. The 418K can be exceeded. I can see it now, any public service executive who wants to get a pay increase only has to resign his position and then be hired back at a "market" level salary that is higher than his "capped" pay. Then of course there is the matter of the servence pay he will collect when he "resigns". Meanwhile we screw the 2nd year teacher making the ungodly salary of 35K per year. YES all is well in Dalton's Ontario of severe restraint. Must remember to become a Liberal party member.
Only in this crazy FAST moving world could a pay cut and unpaid days be seen as teachers getting more money.So again,...the teachers are putting them selves ahead of the students for MORE money.
...
Terms
FAST
Reply to post #318, and then, we will have a discussion !!!Only in this crazy FAST moving world could a pay cut and unpaid days be seen as teachers getting more money.
FAST
Reply to post #318, and then, we will have a discussion !!!
No - The 3 days unpaid PD days are part of the regular PD days. However this only applies to the Catholic teachers. It is not in the Legislation and the Catholic teachers do have the option of accepting any terms impossed on the public teachers. Since the three unpaid days are not included in the legislation so I assume the Catholic teachers will opt to drop the 3 days from their contract while keeping the salary grid increases for new teachers. Again in Dalton's world of restraint costs go up.
Depends if the unpaid days are spotted for when pd days were supposed to happen then no the kids don't miss a thingSo again,...the teachers are putting them selves ahead of the students for MORE money.
Also,...does "3 unpaid PD days" mean that the students will be in the class room 3 days less per "year" ??
FAST
Timing
FAST
My understanding is that PD days were "negotiated" with the boards to be "paid" days DURING the school YEAR,...instead of during,... say,...summer off, march break and the 10 days off at Xmas break.Depends if the unpaid days are spotted for when pd days were supposed to happen then no the kids don't miss a thing
FAST
Sorry I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. The days are unpaid not sure if it means they still have to go or not and not sure if it will fall on days that students are supposed to be there or not.My understanding is that PD days were "negotiated" with the boards to be "paid" days DURING the school YEAR,...instead of during,... say,...summer off, march break and the 10 days off at Xmas break.
FAST
Very simple - the kids do not go to school on PD Days. Teachers are supposed to be on Professional Development activities on those days. Exactly the same as when a private company employer sends its employees to a professional development or continuing education seminar on a day that employee was supposed to be at his or her desk working. However if you see some of the Professional Development activities the school boards create you may question why PD Days exist.
Especially the ministry hosted ones. I have sat through more than one curriculum roll out where there was a huge spread put on just so they could read straight out of the document....Huge waste of time and money that would be much better spent in other ways. If the PD is unpaid and voluntary then I would expect that it will be mostly self directed and go towards things like marking and report card preparation and other things we have no time to do.
As far as the extracurricular goes here is an idea, how about if we start tracking all of the extra time that we put in and once we reach a certain number of hours the we stop.... what would be reasonable? 100 000 hours 300 000? Unlimited how many free hours do any of you work? How many hours do you volunteer at some sort of community building activity? I will not count the hours for prep and marking as that is reasonable given the profession. Just the extra hours of coaching and mentoring and running all of the very important clubs and activities that require a caring adult to supervise them.
As far as the extracurricular goes here is an idea, how about if we start tracking all of the extra time that we put in and once we reach a certain number of hours the we stop.... what would be reasonable? 100 000 hours 300 000? Unlimited how many free hours do any of you work? How many hours do you volunteer at some sort of community building activity? I will not count the hours for prep and marking as that is reasonable given the profession. Just the extra hours of coaching and mentoring and running all of the very important clubs and activities that require a caring adult to supervise them.
Strange
Instead, we insist that they are taken during teaching days,...just to show how important we are,...and because that would cost tax payers more money, as they would have to pay the teachers on their PD days, and baby sitters to watch their kids. !!!
I think thats a responsible profession !!!
One thing I don't get though, why do we say that teachers are taking a pay cut because they have less PD days,... just show up,...and teach,...and you will get paid,...or is the school year suddenly shorter by 3 days !!!
FAST
So the teachers told the boards that we want PD days just like everbody else,...you know,... sorta like play business,...but we don't want them during our summer off, march break or 10 days at Xmas holidays.Very simple - the kids do not go to school on PD Days. Teachers are supposed to be on Professional Development activities on those days. Exactly the same as when a private company employer sends its employees to a professional development or continuing education seminar on a day that employee was supposed to be at his or her desk working. However if you see some of the Professional Development activities the school boards create you may question why PD Days exist.
Instead, we insist that they are taken during teaching days,...just to show how important we are,...and because that would cost tax payers more money, as they would have to pay the teachers on their PD days, and baby sitters to watch their kids. !!!
I think thats a responsible profession !!!
One thing I don't get though, why do we say that teachers are taking a pay cut because they have less PD days,... just show up,...and teach,...and you will get paid,...or is the school year suddenly shorter by 3 days !!!
FAST
Actually the government is who came up with this FAST and it was imposed on teachers. We have had no discussions with the boards, in fact we have had no discussions with the government. THIS WAS IMPOSED and instead of fucking over all of the younger teachers who are still on the grid we all agreed to share the pain in lost wages. I don't know why the 3 PD days were included but that's how negotiations work. Just like the Rae days of the past. So yes there will be 3 fewer days but only for the students there will still be work being done on those days because there is always work to be done in education. If you want some perspective read Tony Danza's new book about his first year as a teacher or watch his show. I doubt you will Fast because you are an ideologue and will only see things from your very narrow point of view. It makes it difficult to have a well reasoned conversation. I don't know what the fuck you think we do all day but having been in the world of executive sales for many years I will tell you that my life as a teacher of high risk kids is far harder than anything I ever did in business. There are other rewards in education beyond the financial and that keeps me going, but I also need to be able to live my life too and it is only now after 7 or 8 years in the profession that I can say I have reached any kind of level of comfort. I live a modest life, rent an apartment, own an older model car. Nothing extravagant. And that seems to fit with most every one around me for whom teaching is a primary income. I don't know why you don't value what I do and begrudge my making a living wage or the rights that we give to other workers both in the public and private sector. I don't need a pay raise or extra PD or what ever else you will find to rip on us about.
Until the government agrees to sit down at the table and bargain properly I am not going to sit by and pretend that everything is right in the world. Yes we are in hard times, yes the public sector will have to take a hit. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT, but there needs to be a fair and equitable process. By breaching that fundamental concept the government is forcing everything that happens from now on and it is going to be ugly there is really no way around it. If someone came to you and took your rights away wouldn't you fight to get them back. The government and the unions are playing chicken and the kids are in the road. If you want to avoid them getting hurt in all this stop bitching about how privileged the teachers are and put some pressure on the government to come back to a fair process. Had this been properly negotiated I would be doing my job right now and would have accepted any contract with the faith that it was the best that my union could do given the current situation. But that is not how it went down.
There is a strike vote this week and once it is done the unions will have the ability to use other pressure points than withdrawal of extra-curriculars, this does not mean that all the teachers will go back to doing them because they are voluntary, unpaid, and not part of our contract so there is no way to force those teachers who no longer want to help out to do so. Good will is such a fickle thing.
Until the government agrees to sit down at the table and bargain properly I am not going to sit by and pretend that everything is right in the world. Yes we are in hard times, yes the public sector will have to take a hit. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT, but there needs to be a fair and equitable process. By breaching that fundamental concept the government is forcing everything that happens from now on and it is going to be ugly there is really no way around it. If someone came to you and took your rights away wouldn't you fight to get them back. The government and the unions are playing chicken and the kids are in the road. If you want to avoid them getting hurt in all this stop bitching about how privileged the teachers are and put some pressure on the government to come back to a fair process. Had this been properly negotiated I would be doing my job right now and would have accepted any contract with the faith that it was the best that my union could do given the current situation. But that is not how it went down.
There is a strike vote this week and once it is done the unions will have the ability to use other pressure points than withdrawal of extra-curriculars, this does not mean that all the teachers will go back to doing them because they are voluntary, unpaid, and not part of our contract so there is no way to force those teachers who no longer want to help out to do so. Good will is such a fickle thing.
Lets seeSo corporations are using people and their families as pawns..... those devils.
If they are concerned about hte deficit then help out.
Corporations employ people and provide us with the goods and services we demand
However according to you they are using peoples and families as pawns
You lefties have a very strange way of viewing life
If not for the private sector companies you would not have an economy, jobs or the taxes which you take for granted
If you do not like the way a corp acts or you thank they are charging too much, you switch and examine their competitors product or service
With unions, if they are gouging (WHICH THEY DO), your choices have been artificially made unavailable
That poll is factually correct and completely absent of bias.And your 83% is not the general public..... it's 83% of computer using hobbiests who spend time on politics threads. This is a particular subset of the population and their views are not necessarily in line with the public. Again not only do you create a biased poll you then interpret it incorrectly...... embarrassing.
The fact 83% voted for the responsible answer is a much better indicator of public opinion that your personal opinion
The embarrassment is all yours if you are unwilling to accept the fact that tax increase to continue to enrich your special interest group is not going to happen
This creepy statement is more than enough justification for not wanting to post personal information about my family or occupation on the Internet.For three years you've started nothing but anti union threads and shared crass jokes. Guess when you stopped reviewing in 2009 you had a lot of time on your hands.
Apparently you have enough time on your hands to search through three years of my posts and make inaccurate and foolish and irrelevant statements.
While I understand when I post, that information is fair game, I will ask you to occupy your time doing something a little more productive and to keep your creepy, inaccurate observations about my posting history to yourself.
I do not like or respect you and I suspect the feeling is mutual
I you feel the need to try and dig up dirt on me, I suggest you grow up and just place me on ignore
I will let this one slide, however we do not wish to add creepy to the growing list of adjectives which can be associated with you.
Smarten up
Yes it is & teachers should realize their actions and very generous compensation package has eroded much of the goodwill the taxpaying public has for themGood will is such a fickle thing.
Continue to use kids as pawns at your own peril
Oh relax john if you use advanced search you can look for all threads started by the person of your choice. Reading the titles takes secondes. Don't worry a mere few minutes was invested in looking up your posting habits. Context is important, looking at your posting habits tells us a lot about you. Combine that with the insults your are so comfortable flinging shows that this is not just about hte taxes as your like to claim.
Use whatever adjectives you want because it really doesn't bother me. In fact I think it helps to highlight your character or lack there of so keep it up. And it also helps to highlight your insistance on making this a personal topic.
If you want to call your poll 83% of the general population you would be wrong. Do you think the general population is as accepting of prostitution as us? So how can you assume that the views of terbites reflects the general population? Terbites also tend to be people who can afford a fairly expensive hobby so again their views might not reflect the average joe which you love to champion.
This is just basics of sampling, bias and survey taking.
There are biases in that you should have posted the question without your preamble. Proper surveys ask people just hte question and that's it.
But then again this is the same person who meets a few teachers at a cottage and assumes that all teachers can afford cottages.
If you want to say 83% of the terbites that responded to your poll feel that way that's fine but to assume that the general population will vote the same way is not realistic.
If you don't like my posts you're welcome to put me on ignore as well. But thanks for all the advice about what I should or shouldn t say or who I should ignore.
Use whatever adjectives you want because it really doesn't bother me. In fact I think it helps to highlight your character or lack there of so keep it up. And it also helps to highlight your insistance on making this a personal topic.
If you want to call your poll 83% of the general population you would be wrong. Do you think the general population is as accepting of prostitution as us? So how can you assume that the views of terbites reflects the general population? Terbites also tend to be people who can afford a fairly expensive hobby so again their views might not reflect the average joe which you love to champion.
This is just basics of sampling, bias and survey taking.
There are biases in that you should have posted the question without your preamble. Proper surveys ask people just hte question and that's it.
But then again this is the same person who meets a few teachers at a cottage and assumes that all teachers can afford cottages.
If you want to say 83% of the terbites that responded to your poll feel that way that's fine but to assume that the general population will vote the same way is not realistic.
If you don't like my posts you're welcome to put me on ignore as well. But thanks for all the advice about what I should or shouldn t say or who I should ignore.
If both sides agree to the wage freeze, then the next issue that is receiving the most publicity is the inordinate number of sick days and the ability to cash them in. If the "public" excludes other public sector workers then I think you would find the majority do not support the teachers.
Just my opinion but get rid of the current ads. They are just annoying people and no one believes you are doing this for the kids. You need a new public relations guru. If it's any consolation Dalton's ratings are at an all time low as well.
Just my opinion but get rid of the current ads. They are just annoying people and no one believes you are doing this for the kids. You need a new public relations guru. If it's any consolation Dalton's ratings are at an all time low as well.
