Some masks better than others

[Fun For All]

You are grasping at straws now, shack.
I have repeatedly said masks in general (that most people are wearing) havent made any difference in reducing the spread.

And the current Ontario Covid numbers would back up that assertion

We know what you have said...but the really smart people who study this for a living say they are effective and the cases would even be higher if we weren't wearing them.

The really smart people who study this for a living say that physical distancing is most effective at reducing the spread.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

We know what you have said...but the really smart people who study this for a living say they are effective and the cases would even be higher if we weren't wearing them.

The really smart people who study this for a living say that physical distancing is most effective at reducing the spread.

I never said I was against physical distancing and we're not discussing physical distancing ITT.

AFA masks go, there are plenty of studies by really smart people that say they dont work.
And our current ± 3,000 daily new infection rate would back up that assertion.

Conclusion: N95 masks are needed

 

[Fun For All]

I never said I was against physical distancing and we're not discussing physical distancing ITT.

AFA masks go, there are plenty of studies by really smart people that say they dont work.
And our current ± 3,000 daily new infection rate would back up that assertion.

Conclusion: N95 masks are needed

They'd be higher without masks...3,000 daily infections could be 5,000.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

They'd be higher without masks...3,000 daily infections could be 5,000

No they wouldnt

 

[shack]

I have repeatedly said masks in general (that most people are wearing) havent made any difference in reducing the spread.

Which means that they served no purpose. They were useless (in your opinion).

 

[shack]

I never said I was against physical distancing and we're not discussing physical distancing ITT.
AFA masks go, there are plenty of studies by really smart people that say they dont work.
And our current ± 3,000 daily new infection rate would back up that assertion.

I said this before, but you claim that because cases are at record highs, that is proof that masks don't work. It is 100% logically consistent to apply that same thinking to distancing, hand washing etc. Cases are at record highs, therefore those other measures also do not work.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Which means that they served no purpose. They were useless (in your opinion).

The masks most people are currently wearing are yes, useless.
And the crazy 2nd wave we're having right now in Ontario and many EU countries would back up that assertion

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I said this before, but you claim that because cases are at record highs, that is proof that masks don't work. It is 100% logically consistent to apply that same thinking to distancing, hand washing etc. Cases are at record highs, therefore those other measures also do not work

But we're talking about masks ITT. Try to stay on topic.

You're a pretty bad debater, shack. You didnt even know that many people in China arent wearing masks.
Might wanna do more research before you post your ignorance

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/happy-new-year-from-wuhan.734628/post-6919253

 

[shack]

But we're talking about masks ITT. Try to stay on topic.

It was a fair question (it stems from the results of mask usage) that, apparently, you have no answer for.

Cases are going up. No measures are making a difference. Not just masks. By your logic all measures are useless. Why are we trying anything at all?

 

[basketcase]

I'm not sure which tests you are referring to, but the studies I have posted ITT say they dont make much difference.

At least that's what they say of you don't read or understand what they say.

Most transmission is by respiratory and aerosolized droplets and you have shown us quite clearly that surgical masks stop those particles.

 

[basketcase]

...

AFA masks go, there are plenty of studies by really smart people that say they dont work.
...

Bullshit.

There are studies that show single layer loose weave masks are less effective than surgical masks, that loos, thin polyester neck gaiters are potentially counterproductive, and that surgical masks are almost as effective as N95.

 

[basketcase]

I said this before, but you claim that because cases are at record highs, that is proof that masks don't work....

But I have a rock that keeps tigers away.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

At least that's what they say of you don't read or understand what they say.

Most transmission is by respiratory and aerosolized droplets and you have shown us quite clearly that surgical masks stop those particles

I repeat, only N95 masks will stop microscopic droplets and free particles

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Bullshit.

There are studies that show single layer loose weave masks are less effective than surgical masks, that loos, thin polyester neck gaiters are potentially counterproductive, and that surgical masks are almost as effective as N95

You're wrong

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243171683067777024

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

It was a fair question (it stems from the results of mask usage) that, apparently, you have no answer for.

Cases are going up. No measures are making a difference. Not just masks. By your logic all measures are useless. Why are we trying anything at all?

Well lets see. Our first lockdown started around March/April IIRC. That one coupled with distancing, washing hands.....etc flattened the curve nicely.
Ontario cases went down to about 400 in the Spring to about 100 to 150 by mid July. So that worked well.

Then Ford/Tory decided lets mandate masks to bring it down even further.
Masks became mandatory around July 14th.
At first I was all for it thinking masks would perhaps decrease new cases to double digits.

Unfortunately it had no impact (see graph). From July 14th to the start of September there was no decrease.
The chart shows it basically flatlined (see red line):

That tells me masks didnt do shit.
Only lockdowns, distancing, washing hands....etc so far has worked. The data clearly proves this.

Will our 2nd lockdown work??
So far it hasnt, but its going to need more time.
We shall see

 

[Fun For All]

Well lets see. Our first lockdown started around March/April IIRC. That one coupled with distancing, washing hands.....etc flattened the curve nicely.
Ontario cases went down to about 400 in the Spring to about 100 to 150 by mid July. So that worked well.

Then Ford/Tory decided lets mandate masks to bring it down even further.
Masks became mandatory around July 14th.
At first I was all for it thinking masks would perhaps decrease new cases to double digits.

Unfortunately it had no impact (see graph). From July 14th to the start of September there was no decrease.
The chart shows it basically flatlined (see red line):

That tells me masks didnt do shit.
Only lockdowns, distancing, washing hands....etc so far has worked. The data clearly proves this.

Will our 2nd lockdown work??
So far it hasnt, but its going to need more time.
We shall see

Couple things that you haven't included...

-March/April numbers appear lower because we weren't testing as much as we did after that
-when masks became mandated, physical distancing and crowds become more of a challenge because of selfish attitudes
-we went from a hard lockdown in March to a re-opening strategy shortly after where physical distancing was harder to achieve
-Masks were not not suppose to stop the spread but slow it...other factors have contributed in the rising numbers
-the experts always said we'd have another wave at this time of the year, they were right
-if nobody was wearing masks the experts think we'd have higher numbers

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Couple things that you haven't included...

-March/April numbers appear lower because we weren't testing as much as we did after that

True, but if you factor in that we're testing more the stats show we still have way higher numbers than our 1st wave

-when masks became mandated, physical distancing and crowds become more of a challenge because of selfish attitudes

But if masks work so well that shouldnt have mattered, or would have still kept numbers reasonably under control

-when masks became mandated, physical distancing and crowds become more of a challenge because of selfish attitudes

Not true in all the stores I've been to.

Possibly true for subways, streetcars, buses....etc

-Masks were not not suppose to stop the spread but slow it...other factors have contributed in the rising numbers

Such as??

-the experts always said we'd have another wave at this time of the year, they were right

No argument from me

-if nobody was wearing masks the experts think we'd have higher numbers

This is unprovable on your part

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

3,128 new cases today: https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-r...-hospitalizations-hit-all-time-high-1.5253947

 

[basketcase]

I repeat, only N95 masks will stop microscopic droplets and free particles

Despite what facts say.

BTW, in case you missed it, N95 masks are listed so as they have at least a 95% efficient at stopping particles as small as 0.1 microns. Just like any other mask, they REDUCE transmission, not stop transmission.

Meanwhile a study of FDA approved surgical masks found that they were 98% efficient at 0.1 microns.

Filtration Performance of FDA-Cleared Surgical Masks - PMC

Ashortage of NIOSH-approved respirators is predicted during an influenza pandemic and other infectious disease outbreaks. Healthcare workers may use surgical masks instead of respirators due to non-availability and for economical reasons. This study ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I know that science won't change your opinion but facts are facts.

 

[basketcase]

You're wrong

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243171683067777024

Great, a tweet from March before the science was in. Bet you still think bleeding is a good way to fix your humours