Should we halt Immigration until we can get it under control.

[drewstar]

You said what you said. You said refugees. That is different than immigrants. Even by your own admission. Refugees are often not skilled workers like most immigrants are.

Just own it and say what you mean next time. Especially when you are listing of a bunch of other shit in your rant.

This is about immigration- not all the other bullet points you listed off in your rant about the liberals. My message stands. You posted a rant about the liberals and nothing about actual true immigration and its process.

It was a rant yes, but heres what you dont understand. Our government is actively destroying our country, and all those points are either directly or indirectly impacting each other.

Ive offered plenty of solutions, youre just too ignorant to acknowledge them.

 

[drewstar]

Incorrect.

Refugees made up roughly 9.1% of all immigrants (permanent residents, students, temporary workers and refugees) to Canada in 2022. And that number does not even include assylum approvals, it is just the total number of applications received.

Link please?

Also assuming your stats are accurate, visible tent cities like the one on Peter and Richmond are just normal and nothing to see right?

 

[drewstar]

Maybe the dyed in the wool Conservatives will get it, after reading this. Penned just after Ford won. By a very right wing economist…Scales are different, as are some specifics. But the premise is the same. Mostly

Mintz, one of the few economists worth following.

Jack Mintz: Congrats Doug Ford. You might get to fix Ontario’s economic trainwreck

Rather than balancing the budget, Ontario plans to have an $8 billion deficit in the coming year

financialpost.com

Ford is a progressive and not a true conservative. Its just that Onterrible has literally zero mainstream parties remotely right of center on the politicial spectrum. Were screwed.

 

[Not getting younger]

Ford is a progressive and not a true conservative. Its just that Onterrible has literally zero mainstream parties remotely right of center on the politicial spectrum. Were screwed.

Ford, like all of them cares first and foremost about the crown. As Gerald Butts ( first McGuintys top advisor and the Trudeau’s) said during the JWR scandal.

we can have the best policies, they don’t matter if we don’t win….

and that mean winning the GTA, both provincially and Federally. As some liberal MP said with respect to Northern Ontario….who cares, they don’t matter…

Ford has spent and spent. Why?
Because that’s what um…the gta wanted. And if he doesn’t…..he doesn’t win.

Federally? Try living out West. The Liberals don’t care about the west. By the time polls close here, the election is over before they start closing in Manitoba

 

[explorerzip]

I dont believe immigration should be halted completely, but Il address a few of your points that I think we should be doing, but obviously arent.

1. Rise in cost of living, high taxes leads to less people being able to afford to have more kids. The elderly in my family chose to retire early because the system has no incentive to work hard after paying astronomical taxes their entire life. Its on them to live as long as they can so that the govt gives back. Our country doesnt reward hard work, and the loopholes many industries need to jump through here gives ZERO incentive to do business here.

2. Certain workforce shortages are the result of un$cientific mandates. Why hire foreign workers when we have perfectly fit and qualified ones here kicked to the curb?

3. Infrastructure needs to be able to support the increase in population which includes housing, jobs and transportation. We have a big issue with those areas already, mass immigration with no realistic plan is only going to compound problems. We have more and more bad drivers on the road than ever before, yet GTA gridlock will only get much worse.

Let's say we slow down immigration. What is the magic number you have in mind? The same problem still exists that once you slow things down it becomes hard to ramp it back up. Immigration policy is not like a faucet in the OP's analogy where the effects are instantenous. It will take many decades to see the consequences. I already gave you the example of what happens when governments try to control the population.

What unscientific mandates are you referring to exactly? If the Canadian born population is unwilling to go into certain industries, then businesses have to hire foreign workers. Let's assume there an equal amount of foreign vs Canadian workers with identical skills. In all likelyhood, the foreign workers are going to win out because they may be wiling to accept lower wages, worse working conditions, over time, overnight shifts, etc. vs Canadian born.

 

[Kurt]

No.

1. Canada is an aging country and is in a demographic decline. Hence we need immigration to make the country younger, and pay into the system so our social services can be supported.
2. We need immigration to fill shortages in jobs - both skilled and unskilled.
3. A higher population also means a bigger market and potential for growth.

The problems:

1. When immigrants come here, they only have a few cities to move to. People will move to places where there are jobs. So it is impractical to ask immigrants to move to...for example, Thunder Bay. What will they do there? Where will they work? Not practical. The way Canada is set up they have to inevitably move to Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver or one of the few big cities.

2. Canadian Experience requirements. These are racist and discriminatory employment practices that have nothing to do with skills or credentials. This is basically an arbitrary standard where people are told that they are not "Canadian enough". This prevents immigrants from taking up jobs that they otherwise could. You don't see this in the US btw. Only in Canada.

3. Supply side issues with housing. Permitting, zoning laws, taxation, real estate investors buying up property and jacking up prices and so on. Immigration is but one factor on the demand side and this is not the only or even the major driver of rising housing costs. Rising housing costs is primarily caused by government policy and inaction.

Agree with many of your points above.

The problem is that the Government makes it difficult for companies to bring in key individuals for jobs that we are struggling for I am working with a client in Oshawa that is looking for skilled trades and we are finding great candidates overseas and looking to sponsor and pay for relocations cost, family support and cultural integrations support. The bureaucrats are taking up to 3 months to approve, even though these roles have been identified as not needing a Labour Market Impact Assessment (LMIA).

But what is happening is that they have opened up the flood gates and don't know who they are bring in.
Just look at what is happening in France and Germany.
Toronto is next and the new Mayor will do nothing about it but blame everyone else which is her MO.

 

[Jenesis]

It was a rant yes, but heres what you dont understand. Our government is actively destroying our country, and all those points are either directly or indirectly impacting each other.

Ive offered plenty of solutions, youre just too ignorant to acknowledge them.

Too ignorant to acknowledge them???? Really? Anyone who doesn’t get involved in discussion with you on those off topic point is ignorant????

Why would anyone want to discuss anything with you if that is your attitude???? You are already insulting before we can get to the actual topic at hand.

You are just acting like a bully. A narcissistic one at that. “Pay attention to me or your are ignorant” Did you stomp your little feet while you said it too????

oh and for the record - I have not even stated my stance. Which is I agree. There are too many refugees brought it and dumped in Toronto. I think immigration reform is needed and people need to be placed in other areas of the country. I think recourses are needed to be set up. Better housing. So before you call me ignorant - maybe take the time to find out my actual stance.

 

[drewstar]

Too ignorant to acknowledge them???? Really? Anyone who doesn’t get involved in discussion with you on those off topic point is ignorant????

Why would anyone want to discuss anything with you if that is your attitude???? You are already insulting before we can get to the actual topic at hand.

You are just acting like a bully. A narcissistic one at that. “Pay attention to me or your are ignorant” Did you stomp your little feet while you said it too????

oh and for the record - I have not even stated my stance. Which is I agree. There are too many refugees brought it and dumped in Toronto. I think immigration reform is needed and people need to be placed in other areas of the country. I think recourses are needed to be set up. Better housing. So before you call me ignorant - maybe take the time to find out my actual stance.

Youve relentless attacked the messenger and love to act the victim. Instead of addressing each individual point on its own merit, you resorted to painting the whole post with one brush.

Other posters have countered my arguments with context and facts - I am open and happy to acknowledge their points which were reasonable and well thought out.

The one lashing out first was you - spare me your gaslighting.

 

[drewstar]

Ford, like all of them cares first and foremost about the crown. As Gerald Butts ( first McGuintys top advisor and the Trudeau’s) said during the JWR scandal.

we can have the best policies, they don’t matter if we don’t win….

and that mean winning the GTA, both provincially and Federally. As some liberal MP said with respect to Northern Ontario….who cares, they don’t matter…

Ford has spent and spent. Why?
Because that’s what um…the gta wanted. And if he doesn’t…..he doesn’t win.

Federally? Try living out West. The Liberals don’t care about the west. By the time polls close here, the election is over before they start closing in Manitoba

Agreed and thats why Ontario is in trouble - the rest of the country gets screwed in the process because of the GTA.

 

[Not getting younger]

Jenesis. I personally know…knew…an electrician. Don’t recall his exact status so will say landed. He was working at a plant in Uxbridge (surprise). He name went into a pool. Alberta drew him. So he and his family had to up and move. This was 2016. No work for him out there.

My SOs BiL. A master electrician l. Top dog for an oil company in the fields. He had to move back to the GTA in 2015. No work…He now runs his own very successful business in Durham

 

[drewstar]

2. Certain workforce shortages are the result of un$cientific mandates. Why hire foreign workers when we have perfectly fit and qualified ones here kicked to the curb?

3. Infrastructure needs to be able to support the increase in population which includes housing, jobs and transportation. We have a big issue with those areas already, mass immigration with no realistic plan is only going to compound problems. We have more and more bad drivers on the road than ever before, yet GTA gridlock will only get much worse.

Let's say we slow down immigration. What is the magic number you have in mind? The same problem still exists that once you slow things down it becomes hard to ramp it back up. Immigration policy is not like a faucet in the OP's analogy where the effects are instantenous. It will take many decades to see the consequences. I already gave you the example of what happens when governments try to control the population.

What unscientific mandates are you referring to exactly? If the Canadian born population is unwilling to go into certain industries, then businesses have to hire foreign workers. Let's assume there an equal amount of foreign vs Canadian workers with identical skills. In all likelyhood, the foreign workers are going to win out because they may be wiling to accept lower wages, worse working conditions, over time, overnight shifts, etc. vs Canadian born.
[/QUOTE]

Theres no perfect solution for immigration, but we do need to make international qualifications matter - I had family members who were doing well financially at a high ranking visible position internationally only to be considered unqualified here and initially work a low paying entry level accounting job - just terrible.

The mandates I speak of are the covid ones in health care that remain in some jurisdictions. The covid hysteria led to so much excessive spending that is part of the reason we have reached historic debt levels now, and our currency devalued which ultimately leads to a lower standard of living.

 

[Jenesis]

Youve relentless attacked the messenger and love to act the victim. Instead of addressing each individual point on its own merit, you resorted to painting the whole post with one brush.

Other posters have countered my arguments with context and facts - I am open and happy to acknowledge their points which were reasonable and well thought out.

The one lashing out first was you - spare me your gaslighting.

Dude - you admitted it was a rant. I called it a rant. You admit refugees are different than immigrants. I said refugees are different than immigrants. You said there was a problem, I agreed there was a problem but I’m the ignorant one who is gaslighting?????? You are out to lunch buddy.

 

[bazokajoe]

Japan birth rate hits record low amid concerns over shrinking and aging population

TOKYO (AP) — Japan’s birth rate declined for a seventh consecutive year in 2022 to a record low of 1.26, the Health Ministry said Friday, adding to a sense of urgency in a country where the government is seen as too slow to take measures to address its rapidly shrinking and aging population.

apnews.com

You havent been reading the posts carefully enough. The birth rate in Western countries is not enough to sustain their economies. From an earlier post, I showed what is happening in Japan. The death rate is significantly higher than the birth rate And there is no immigration to fill the gap. So the population declined by 800,000 in 2022 and projected to decline to 87 million by 2070 from the current 125 million. Entire industries will be closed because of shortage of workers, there will not be enough workers to support the ageing population and the standard of living will fall correspondingly. If this is the fate you want for Canada, then cheer on. And good luck.

Even Germany has seen the light. They love refugees and admitted 1 million of them in 2022, including 560,000 Syrians. Since the war in Ukraine, Germany has admitted 900,000 refugees from Ukraine. They put them in German immersion schools right away and then in various programs after that based on aptitude. The German industrial machine needs skilled workers and they dont care where they come from: they will train them to do the job.

I'll be more than happy to cheer on.

 

[drewstar]

Dude - you admitted it was a rant. I called it a rant. You admit refugees are different than immigrants. I said refugees are different than immigrants. You said there was a problem, I agreed there was a problem but I’m the ignorant one who is gaslighting?????? You are out to lunch buddy.

Who was the one calling the other the bully? Who was the one that dismissed the entire initial post?

This is the last time Il address your gaslighting.

And Im not your buddy. Dont address me that way ever again.

 

[Jenesis]

Who was the one calling the other the bully? Who was the one that dismissed the entire initial post?

This is the last time Il address your gaslighting.

When you name call - that is bullying. Get it together

 

[amazing age]

There are a couple of overlooked points in this discussion, for example

(1) Granted we need high levels of immigration to maintain (even remotely) the ratio of workers to retirees we have enjoyed to date. But is this even possible? Are we even going to be in a position to attract half a million people a year? Canada is not the only country in the world facing a demographic crisis. At least tweny countires are now experiencing population decline, including most of the European nations that are able to supply the educated people we are seeking. Many African nations are generating excess population, but these people don't usually have the eduation levels Canada is looking for. And no, this has nothing to do with "Canadian racism". Canada is NOT, in general, a racist place. Really, it's not;

(2) In spite of what we like to imagine, many people do not consider Canada all that great of a choice, and our immigrant retention rate is on the low side (lousey cimate, taxes too high, nowhere to live, lousey food, fat, unattractive population, the impossibility of getting foreign credentials recognized, well, you get the picture);

(3) We may very well have to resign ourselves to working longer and living on less (well, not public employees and politicians. They deserve more that the rest of us for the great job ther're doing). And yes, I'm speaking from expereience; I'm seventy-three and I still run my business on a full-time basis.

(4) As many have pointed out, Japan is the test case of what happens to a declining population that refuses immigration. Well it looks bleak for that island nation, but they do have two advantges that we do not: the people accept working into old age (they realize retirement is often destructive), and they are a vastly fitter and healthier population. Perhaps we should look along these lines for our future solutions to the demographic problem.

 

[Frankfooter]

The candidate who won the popular vote lost the last two elections gon

Look at the “landslide” victory for Olivia Chow recently. You think a left wing socialist party is gona manage our finances properly? Or the crime?

Mismanagement/corruption is draining our wallets and sky high taxes when it could be used to actually build efficient public transportation system unlike what we have now - this creates jobs and takes cars off the street gridlock. Yet, there is a guarantee that something sensible like this will almost certainly NOT be done.

Our laws here reward laziness. People retire early because they get taxed into oblivion when theyre in the top bracket - would you rather collect from the govt or get taxed by them if youve already made enough? I know what Id do.

Housing crisis? It doesnt help when the laws all protect tenants as though landlords are a free social service. You can see the entitlement from many. Good luck to all because no rent leads to default on mortgages, which leads to EVERYONE on the streets.

Even seniors who have the most incentive to stay (theyve paid into the system their whole lives) are considering gtfo woke Canada.

There was an excellent transit plan put in place and fully funded by the province by a previous mayor.
But that was cancelled by the right wing Ford's, in exchange they spent $2 billion on a single subway station.
Now the remaining brother wants to spend $650 million of our money on a foreign spa at Ontario place and give them a 95 year lease.

Its not the left wing that's corrupt or bad managers.

 

[drewstar]

There was an excellent transit plan put in place and fully funded by the province by a previous mayor.
But that was cancelled by the right wing Ford's, in exchange they spent $2 billion on a single subway station.
Now the remaining brother wants to spend $650 million of our money on a foreign spa at Ontario place and give them a 95 year lease.

Its not the left wing that's corrupt or bad managers.

Ford isnt a conservative - no true conservative would ever implement the covid policies he did.

 

[toguy5252]

Ford isnt a conservative - no true conservative would ever implement the covid policies he did.

Covid policy has nothing to do with one political affiliation. It has everything to do with science and medicine. Regrettably the despicable north and south of the border have weaponized it for their own political reasons.

 

[drewstar]

Covid policy has nothing to do with one political affiliation. It has everything to follow with science and medicine. Regrettably the despicable north and south of the border have weaponized it for their own political reasons.

I disagree. But thats a whole nother topic. My point is, Ford is a progressive and not a true conservative.

Even something like the landlord and tenant board where it is universally agreed that the law doesnt protect landlords - this is provincial jurisdiction and a reflection of just some of the problems here provincially. But make no mistake - many movements and policies trickle down from the feds. And Ford bends over for JT the moment our dictator does not approve of Fords messaging. Ford says he loves Freeland - one of the prominent clowns in JT’s cabinet.