Russian and Ukrain military footage

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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Well that is not accurate 1) ukraine overthrew its democratically elected leader, 2) it has banned opposition parties and is now a one party system, and 3) It is now a cult of personality . 4, I don't see anti semitism in Russia, in fact there are many jews in positions of power and it has good relations with Israel. On media they are the same. In fact Zelensky was put into power by a Media oligarch. Well Ukraine wants Crimea back so its wanting territory where the population has already chosen to leave.
 
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Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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Well that is not accurate 1) ukraine overthrew its democratically elected leader, 2) it has banned opposition parties and is now a one party system, and 3) It is now a cult of personality . 4, I don't see anti semitism in Russia, in fact there are many jews in positions of power and it has good relations with Israel. On media they are the same. In fact Zelensky was put into power by a Media oligarch. Well Ukraine wants Crimea back so its wanting territory where the population has already chosen to leave.
.
 
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PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
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Only a fool would believe someone who want to sell him more product faster.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu.../a25577/how-to-make-your-tires-last-10-years/

When properly stored in a climate controlled warehouse, tires have an almost unlimited shelf life, and once they're on the road, proper care can add many years to a tire's life.

So mr gullible, who has more credibility? A tire vendor or an enthusiast publication.
From your article.
"In general, we see six years of service with no more than 10 years of total life since manufacture."
Yes, you can keep tires in a warehouse that is climate controlled with tires in vacuum sealed plastic, but you still have to replace the tires once installed on a military vehicle every 6 years if you want reliability.
Military tires are built with extra resistance to impact from explosions, etc. and this resistance degrades on an installed tire as well.
This is why there are Michelin military tires available in bulk with only 20% wear on them.
Nato forces change their tires as required and then sell them as military surplus.
There were 50 used Michelin tires on Alibaba one time with 80% tread remaining for $36,000 USD.
The same site had Chinese knock off military tires of the same size, brand new for $200.00 USD each.
Which one would you think had better quality?
 
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nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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From your article.
"In general, we see six years of service with no more than 10 years of total life since manufacture."
Yes, you can keep tires in a warehouse that is climate controlled with tires in vacuum sealed plastic, but you still have to replace the tires once installed on a military vehicle every 6 years if you want reliability.
Military tires are built with extra resistance to impact from explosions, etc. and this resistance degrades on an installed tire as well.
This is why there are Michelin military tires available in bulk with only 20% wear on them.
Nato forces change their tires as required and then sell them as military surplus.
There were 50 used Michelin tires on Alibaba one time with 80% tread remaining for $36,000 USD.
The same site had Chinese knock off military tires of the same size, brand new for $200.00 USD each.
Which one would you think had better quality?
Quality depends on what you need. You have 2 options, buy a better tire, knowing that it cannot really survive a direct hit from an assault rifle or sniper rifles or artillery shrapnel....option 2) stock up with lots of spares. Russian doctrine has typically favored the latter even with jet engines for some very good reasons. As for the storage conditions, 1) we have NO IDEA whythe tires failed, 2) we have no idea how old they are 3) we have no idea how they were stored 4) we have no idea when they were installed. So the whole conversation is just wild speculation. AND even if the WORST were true, the Russians could probably STILL manage the situation.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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Well that is not accurate 1) ukraine overthrew its democratically elected leader, 2) it has banned opposition parties and is now a one party system, and 3) It is now a cult of personality . 4, I don't see anti semitism in Russia, in fact there are many jews in positions of power and it has good relations with Israel. On media they are the same. In fact Zelensky was put into power by a Media oligarch. Well Ukraine wants Crimea back so its wanting territory where the population has already chosen to leave.
Lets go down the list.

1. Ukraine didn't "overthrow" Yanukovych. I've found a posted this same wiki passage for you several times. You always pop up a couple weeks later and misinform about what happened.

Parliamentary vote

On 21 February, an agreement between president Yanukovych and the leaders of the parliamentary opposition was signed that called for early elections and the formation of an interim unity government. The following day, Yanukovych fled from the capital ahead of an impeachment vote.

The vote took place on 22 February 2014, 328 of 447 members of the Ukrainian parliament (MPs)—or about 73% of the MPs—voted to "remove Viktor Yanukovych from the post of president of Ukraine" on the grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties[190][18] and to hold early presidential elections on 25 May.[18][191][19][20][21] The vote came an hour after Yanukovych said in a televised address that he would not resign. He subsequently declared himself to still be "the legitimate head of the Ukrainian state elected in a free vote by Ukrainian citizens".[23]

The constitutionality of Yanukovych's removal from office has been questioned by constitutional experts.[192] According to Daisy Sindelar from Radio Free Europe, the impeachment may have not followed the procedure provided by the constitution: "t is not clear that the hasty February 22 vote upholds constitutional guidelines, which call for a review of the case by Ukraine's Constitutional Court and a three-fourths majority vote by the Verkhovna Rada -- i.e., 338 lawmakers." The vote, as analyzed by Sindelar, had ten votes less than those required by the constitutional guidelines. However, Sindelar noted in the same article that, "That discrepancy may soon become irrelevant, with parliament expected to elect a new prime minister no later than February 24." The decision to remove Yanukovich was supported by 328 deputies.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych#cite_note-195[191][194][19][195]

Although the legislative removal by an impeachment procedure would have lacked the number of votes required by Ukraine's constitution,[193] the resolution did not follow the impeachment procedure but instead established that Yanukovych "withdrew from his duties in an unconstitutional manner" and cited "circumstances of extreme urgency",[191][194] a situation for which there was no stipulation in the then-current Ukrainian constitution.[196]

Two days later Ukraine's parliament dismissed five judges of the Constitutional Court for allegedly violating their oaths, who were then investigated for alleged malpractice.[197]

Yanukovych maintained that his replacement was a coup and continued to make statements from an official perspective.[198][199]

Disavowal by party

Yanukovych was eventually disowned by the Party of Regions. In a statement issued by Oleksandr Yefremov, parliamentary faction leader, the party and its members "strongly condemn[ed] the criminal orders that led to human victims, an empty state treasury, huge debts, shame before the eyes of the Ukrainian people and the entire world."[200][201][202]

On the same day that parliament removed Yanukovych from office, it voted to authorize the release of his rival Yulia Tymoshenko from a prison hospital.[203] She had been imprisoned since 2011, in what many saw as political payback by Yanukovych. Her release had been an unmet condition for Ukraine's signing of a European Union trade pact.[204]

Leaving Ukraine

Yanukovych left Kyiv during the night of 21 February 2014. Assisted by Russian Spetsnaz[205] he moved initially to Kharkiv with bodyguards and personal effects.[206][c] According to then governor of Kharkiv Oblast, Mykhailo Dobkin, Yanukovych had intended to make his stay in Kharkiv look like "just another presidential inspection tour" and according to Dobkin, "was desperate to make it look like he wasn't running away".[208] Yanukovych asked Dobkin to "pick out a few factories for me to visit"; the director of state-owned industrial giant Turboatom[209] declined even to take his call (according to Dobkin).[208]
 
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mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
86,591
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Well that is not accurate 1) ukraine overthrew its democratically elected leader, 2) it has banned opposition parties and is now a one party system, and 3) It is now a cult of personality . 4, I don't see anti semitism in Russia, in fact there are many jews in positions of power and it has good relations with Israel. On media they are the same. In fact Zelensky was put into power by a Media oligarch. Well Ukraine wants Crimea back so its wanting territory where the population has already chosen to leave.
2. Ukraine has banned Pro Russian parties. That's what countries in the middle of a war do, notty. That notorious tyrant Winston Churchill banned the British Nazi Party in 1940 and detained its leaders. It's normal.

3. What "cult of personality"?

4. There is a current of anti semitism in Russia that certainly appears if you follow domestic media - and you don't. I suspect your reading on Russia is limited to letters to the editor in The Guardian's editorials section. The anti semitism does not amount to open oppression. It's just sneers and jokes and social bigotry. Sort of like Toronto in the 1950's.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
86,591
131,941
113
Quality depends on what you need. You have 2 options, buy a better tire, knowing that it cannot really survive a direct hit from an assault rifle or sniper rifles or artillery shrapnel....option 2) stock up with lots of spares. Russian doctrine has typically favored the latter even with jet engines for some very good reasons. As for the storage conditions, 1) we have NO IDEA whythe tires failed, 2) we have no idea how old they are 3) we have no idea how they were stored 4) we have no idea when they were installed. So the whole conversation is just wild speculation. AND even if the WORST were true, the Russians could probably STILL manage the situation.
Notty, military logistics experts have already provided answers on all the things you now question. The threads and articles have been shown to you. You ignore them for a week or so and then start from scratch trying to make all the same points.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
26,086
4,134
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Lets go down the list.

1. Ukraine didn't "overthrow" Yanukovych. I've found a posted this same wiki passage for you several times. You always pop up a couple weeks later and misinform about what happened.

Parliamentary vote

On 21 February, an agreement between president Yanukovych and the leaders of the parliamentary opposition was signed that called for early elections and the formation of an interim unity government. The following day, Yanukovych fled from the capital ahead of an impeachment vote.

The vote took place on 22 February 2014, 328 of 447 members of the Ukrainian parliament (MPs)—or about 73% of the MPs—voted to "remove Viktor Yanukovych from the post of president of Ukraine" on the grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties[190][18] and to hold early presidential elections on 25 May.[18][191][19][20][21] The vote came an hour after Yanukovych said in a televised address that he would not resign. He subsequently declared himself to still be "the legitimate head of the Ukrainian state elected in a free vote by Ukrainian citizens".[23]

The constitutionality of Yanukovych's removal from office has been questioned by constitutional experts.[192] According to Daisy Sindelar from Radio Free Europe, the impeachment may have not followed the procedure provided by the constitution: "t is not clear that the hasty February 22 vote upholds constitutional guidelines, which call for a review of the case by Ukraine's Constitutional Court and a three-fourths majority vote by the Verkhovna Rada -- i.e., 338 lawmakers." The vote, as analyzed by Sindelar, had ten votes less than those required by the constitutional guidelines. However, Sindelar noted in the same article that, "That discrepancy may soon become irrelevant, with parliament expected to elect a new prime minister no later than February 24." The decision to remove Yanukovich was supported by 328 deputies.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych#cite_note-195[191][194][19][195]

Although the legislative removal by an impeachment procedure would have lacked the number of votes required by Ukraine's constitution,[193] the resolution did not follow the impeachment procedure but instead established that Yanukovych "withdrew from his duties in an unconstitutional manner" and cited "circumstances of extreme urgency",[191][194] a situation for which there was no stipulation in the then-current Ukrainian constitution.[196]

Two days later Ukraine's parliament dismissed five judges of the Constitutional Court for allegedly violating their oaths, who were then investigated for alleged malpractice.[197]

Yanukovych maintained that his replacement was a coup and continued to make statements from an official perspective.[198][199]

Disavowal by party

Yanukovych was eventually disowned by the Party of Regions. In a statement issued by Oleksandr Yefremov, parliamentary faction leader, the party and its members "strongly condemn[ed] the criminal orders that led to human victims, an empty state treasury, huge debts, shame before the eyes of the Ukrainian people and the entire world."[200][201][202]

On the same day that parliament removed Yanukovych from office, it voted to authorize the release of his rival Yulia Tymoshenko from a prison hospital.[203] She had been imprisoned since 2011, in what many saw as political payback by Yanukovych. Her release had been an unmet condition for Ukraine's signing of a European Union trade pact.[204]

Leaving Ukraine

Yanukovych left Kyiv during the night of 21 February 2014. Assisted by Russian Spetsnaz[205] he moved initially to Kharkiv with bodyguards and personal effects.[206][c] According to then governor of Kharkiv Oblast, Mykhailo Dobkin, Yanukovych had intended to make his stay in Kharkiv look like "just another presidential inspection tour" and according to Dobkin, "was desperate to make it look like he wasn't running away".[208] Yanukovych asked Dobkin to "pick out a few factories for me to visit"; the director of state-owned industrial giant Turboatom[209] declined even to take his call (according to Dobkin).[208]

Ok so you are saying a unconstitutional removal the president , a party coup make this somehow legit? And then before the new election and with a provisional leader, the parliament acts to repeal a law that governs language rights? And somehow this is OK? LOL. Clearly the coup was hell bent on oppressing minorities if this is what they did.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
86,591
131,941
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Ok so you are saying a unconstitutional removal the president , a party coup make this somehow legit? And then before the new election and with a provisional leader, the parliament acts to repeal a law that governs language rights? And somehow this is OK? LOL.
Yanukovych was not "overthrown". There was a constitutional impeachment vote in parliament and he fled the country, which made the impeachment vote moot.
 

PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
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kingston
you don't think that piece of ordinance had anything to do with the tires deflating?
Look at the picture again.
That piece of ordinance next to the tire is an electric motor most likely blown off of what ever it was meant to rotate, at the end is a piece of bell housing where a gear reducer would have been held, the gear has been sheared off.
Did you not notice the missing and loose lug nuts on all the tires indicating poor maintenance or failure to properly torque the wheel nuts.
In this case, I might add, the tires were most likely deflated when the airlines for the central tire inflation system were damaged by the vehicle being hit ( you can see the wheel hub inflation tubes going to the valve stem).
But this brings up another maintenance point in that central tire inflation systems need check valves at every valve stem to keep all tires from deflating in the event of a catastropic failure of one wheel.
One other thing to note, the fuel tank strap is not connected, the stud is still intact and you can see where the nut was on the threads so the nut has fallen off due to improper tighting of the fastener
 
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PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
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Well that is not accurate 1) ukraine overthrew its democratically elected leader, 2) it has banned opposition parties and is now a one party system, and 3) It is now a cult of personality . 4, I don't see anti semitism in Russia, in fact there are many jews in positions of power and it has good relations with Israel. On media they are the same. In fact Zelensky was put into power by a Media oligarch. Well Ukraine wants Crimea back so its wanting territory where the population has already chosen to leave.
#4
" Russia’s Foreign Ministry said Tuesday that Israel supports the “neo-Nazi regime” in Ukraine, as tensions between Moscow and Jerusalem ratcheted up following Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s incendiary remarks on the Holocaust earlier this week."
https://www.timesofisrael.com/mosco...nts-says-israel-backing-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/

  • However, recently there's been a shift in Israel's policy, with more public criticism of Russia — including a strong condemnation of Lavrov's comments this week — and more willingness to support Ukraine.
https://www.axios.com/2022/05/04/tensions-flare-israel-russia-ukraine
Russia-Israel relations have been relatively good in the nearly four years since a major crisis between the two countries erupted in September 2018, when a Russian military plane was downed by Syrian anti-aircraft fire during an Israeli airstrike.

  • Meanwhile, a Hamas delegation arrived in Moscow today for a surprise visit that Israeli officials see as another form of retaliation by Russia
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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When properly stored in a climate controlled warehouse, tires have an almost unlimited shelf life, and once they're on the road, proper care can add many years to a tire's life.

So mr gullible, who has more credibility? A tire vendor or an enthusiast publication.
Russia is corrupt, army and everywhere.
There is zero evidence of proper storage and plenty of evidence of tires falling apart on abandoned vehicles.
The gullible one here is the one listening to 'fascist' media.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
26,086
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Russia is corrupt, army and everywhere.
There is zero evidence of proper storage and plenty of evidence of tires falling apart on abandoned vehicles.
The gullible one here is the one listening to 'fascist' media.
Ok so you are saying the country that built more then half the space station cannot store tires properly. lol
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
26,086
4,134
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Look at the picture again.
That piece of ordinance next to the tire is an electric motor most likely blown off of what ever it was meant to rotate, at the end is a piece of bell housing where a gear reducer would have been held, the gear has been sheared off.
Did you not notice the missing and loose lug nuts on all the tires indicating poor maintenance or failure to properly torque the wheel nuts.
In this case, I might add, the tires were most likely deflated when the airlines for the central tire inflation system were damaged by the vehicle being hit ( you can see the wheel hub inflation tubes going to the valve stem).
But this brings up another maintenance point in that central tire inflation systems need check valves at every valve stem to keep all tires from deflating in the event of a catastropic failure of one wheel.
One other thing to note, the fuel tank strap is not connected, the stud is still intact and you can see where the nut was on the threads so the nut has fallen off due to improper tighting of the fastener
Were the lug nuts not properly torqued, or do you think someone may have tried to removed the wheel to change it? You area listing all these flaws at the same time you conclude the vehicle has been the victim of at least a near miss, probably showered with shrapnel and shockwaves. There is clearly damage to the bodywork. Yet somehow its all shoddy Russian incompetence. Good lord
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
104,319
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Ok so you are saying the country that built more then half the space station cannot store tires properly. lol
Yes.
Were the lug nuts not properly torqued, or do you think someone may have tried to removed the wheel to change it? You area listing all these flaws at the same time you conclude the vehicle has been the victim of at least a near miss, probably showered with shrapnel and shockwaves. There is clearly damage to the bodywork. Yet somehow its all shoddy Russian incompetence. Good lord
You are missing the point.
Look at the condition of the tires in that photo, they are old and show cracks from age. That's why they failed.
 

NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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Ok so you are saying the country that built more then half the space station cannot store tires properly. lol
They can, they just don't. The SU and Russia have been notorious even before the invasion for just having their stored equipment sitting out there rotting away. Everyone knows this except for you. I suspect even you know this but you are either trolling or you are such a poutine stan that you don't care and will argue things you know not to be true.
Hell it seems their slack maintenance extends to equipment that is in use.
 
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Leimonis

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