Rogers Centre getting demolished....finally

[shack]

Think! Who will finance the new stadium? Not the taxpayers in the post Covid debt nightmare. So, Rogers? Does anyone truly believe that the construction will not come at the expense of the baseball operations? That's all Rogers and their sports "journalists"(Rogers employees) will be talking about for the years it will take to complete the project while the Jays will continue to be treated like a small market team. They're probably hoping that the baseball fans will not notice...forgetting that Jays fans are not dumb like the Leaf fans.

I already heard that all 3 levels of gov't will be involved in the talks. Just because you (BTW does the jc in your name stand for "just criticize"?)don't know how to think on the business scale that Rogers and Gov't do, guaranteed that there will be oodles of money to be made and there will be no shortage of parties wanting a chunk of that even if it may require some seed money.

Why would Rogers even consider it? Obviously they have a different perception of what gov't involvement will be than you do. Do you know more about this than they do.

 

[seagerbuzz]

If we could build a stadium like PNC Stadium in Pittsburgh, I'd be overjoyed.

The best part of Pittsburgh is they built their own craft brewery between PNC and Heinz Field. To the person who said the vista should be looking out into Lake Ontario, that could work if Rogers wanted to build a pitcher's stadium.

I think they said a stadium by the lakefront was plan b

 

[jcpro]

I already heard that all 3 levels of gov't will be involved in the talks. Just because you (BTW does the jc in your name stand for "just criticize"?)don't know how to think on the business scale that Rogers and Gov't do, guaranteed that there will be oodles of money to be made and there will be no shortage of parties wanting a chunk of that even if it may require some seed money.

Why would Rogers even consider it? Obviously they have a different perception of what gov't involvement will be than you do. Do you know more about this than they do.

LOL! It always comes down to who will write the check. After what happened with the Sky Dome's financing, no one in Toronto, except maybe Tory, will commit any public cash for the project. These days are gone...even in Canada. Besides, it is the peak of stupidly from the public relations angle for Rogers to even bring this up at this time. There's a real suffering out there, our public finances are in complete shambles and the interest in the professional sports is at all times low.

 

[james t kirk]

This is just a cover story to make money sellling that land for condos.

Quoted for the truth.

Rogers are full of shit and anyone with half a brain will see right though this ploy.

All Rogers wants is demolish skydome and build condos and rake in the money. Simple as that. The location of skydome is THEE best real estate in Toronto. If anyone thinks that Rogers / Brookfield will build a really great stadium out of some sense of altruism for the good citizens of Toronto, please give your collective heads a shake. Rogers will build a piece of shit cheap-assed stadium. As cheap as it gets. I read a post above where it was mentioned building down by the waterfront. (Ontario Place comes to mind right away.) Puhleaze. We built skydome in 89 because the old CNE stadium was a piece of shit and the wind off the lake used to HOWL through the joint. I'm old enough to remember it SNOWING during regular season Jays' games. It was TERRIBLE. Listen, in Toronto, we have maybe 2.5 to 3 decent months of weather to watch a ball game outside. Half of June and half of September plus July and August. Maybe. That fact has not changed. People's memories sure do grow dusty with time, or they weren't around to remember it.

Since Rogers has owned the Blue Jays, it's been all about cost cutting and the result is obvious from top to bottom in the organization and on the field. Any new stadium will be exactly the same. Cheap, cheap cheap.

The skydome is a great facility in a great location, close to the subway, close to the GO lines, close to Union Station, close to hotels, right downtown. There is no other better location.

Skydome is 30 years old and was built as a multi-use sports facility with both baseball and football in mind. Now that it's exclusively baseball, renovate it to have better sight lines, change out any problematic issues inside, etc.

There is no reason that this can't be a great ball park. None.

And to those who say it's a terrible place to see a concert, well, that depends. If the roof it open, it is no worse than any other large outdoor stadium. In some ways it's better because it's not so huge. The problem with seeing a concert at skydome occurs when the roof is closed because the sound waves stream out, follow the stands, then bounce of the roof structure. The result is destructive interference to the sound waves. In short, the sound moves away from the source, hits the roof, then bounces back creating a mess as the waves travelling in opposite directions crash into each other. With the roof closed, you need to be either as close as possible to sound source, or literally at the roof line. Anywhere in the middle is just a muddle of sound. I saw the U2 360 show there (twice) and both instances the lid was open and the sound was great. (You need a very powerful sound system in a large venue.) I also saw Roger Waters' second Wall Concert series there with the lid closed and was on the floor and the sound was great. But I saw the Stones there with the lid closed and was in the middle of the bowl and the sound was awful. But concerts can work there quite easily if the roof is open,

Skydome itself is only 30 years old. Nowhere near the end of its life span. It can easily be made into a remarkable baseball park but that will take money and Rogers will not spend a dime on that. All Rogers wants is to redevlope the property to build more bullshit ugly box condos that the City of Toronto is already allowing to destroy the streetscape of this great city. Don't be fooled and don't let them.

And lastly, the land is owned by the City of Toronto. (It was previously owned by the Grand Trunk Railway which was folded into CN Rail when Wilfred Laurier merged several bankrupt railways into the federal Crown Corporation Canadian National Railways and was previously known as "the railway lands" and parts were sold to the City back in the 80's after being a huge issue for a decade or more. Rogers will need to buy that land. What's ironic is way back in the 1800's, that land was given to the railways as an enticement to build railway infrastructure not into Toronto, but all across Canada. Then the railways pull up stock and sell the land for a huge a profit. There are those who believe that when the railways walk away, the land should revert back to the crown. That did not happen in downtown to Toronto.

Here's a little walk down memory lane.

 

[jcpro]

LOL! It always comes down to who will write the check. After what happened with the Sky Dome's financing, no one in Toronto, except maybe Tory, will commit any public cash for the project. These days are gone...even in Canada. Besides, it is the peak of stupidly from the public relations angle for Rogers to even bring this up at this time. There's a real suffering out there, our public finances are in complete shambles and the interest in the professional sports is at all times low.

Update- right on cue. LOL!! .https://globalnews.ca/news/7488354/rogers-centre-toronto-blue-jays-stadium-plans-coronavirus/

 

[jcpro]

Quoted for the truth.

Rogers are full of shit and anyone with half a brain will see right though this ploy.

All Rogers wants is demolish skydome and build condos and rake in the money. Simple as that. The location of skydome is THEE best real estate in Toronto. If anyone thinks that Rogers / Brookfield will build a really great stadium, please give your collective heads a shake. Rogers will build a piece of shit cheap-assed stadium. As cheap as it gets. I read a post above where it was mentioned building down by the waterfront. (Ontario Place comes to mind right away.) Puhleaze. We built skydome in 89 because the old CNE stadium was a piece of shit and the wind off the lake used to HOWL through the joint. I'm old enough to remember it SNOWING during regular season Jays' games. It was TERRIBLE. Listen, in Toronto, we have maybe 2.5 to 3 decent months of weather to watch a ball game outside. Half of June and half of September plus July and August. Maybe. That fact has not changed. People's memories sure do grow dusty with time, or they weren't around to remember it.

Since Rogers has owned the Blue Jays, it's been all about cost cutting and the result is obvious from top to bottom in the organization and on the field. Any new stadium will be exactly the same. Cheap, cheap cheap.

The skydome is a great facility in a great location, close to the subway, close to the GO lines, close to Union Station, close to hotels, right downtown. There is no other better location.

Skydome is 30 years old and was built as a multi-use sports facility with both baseball and football in mind. Now that it's exclusively baseball, renovate it to have better sight lines, change out any problematic issues inside, etc.

There is no reason that this can't be a great ball park. None.

And to those who say it's a terrible place to see a concert, well, that depends. If the roof it open, it is no worse than any other large outdoor stadium. In some ways it's better because it's not so huge. The problem with seeing a concert at skydome occurs when the roof is closed because the sound waves stream out, follow the stands, then bounce of the roof structure. The result is destructive interference to the sound waves. In short, the sound moves away from the source, hits the roof, then bounces back creating a mess as the waves travelling in opposite directions crash into each other. With the roof closed, you need to be either as close as possible to sound source, or literally at the roof line. Anywhere in the middle is just a muddle of sound. I saw the U2360 show there (twice) and both instances the lid was open and the sound was great. (You need a very powerful sound system in a large venue.) I also saw Roger Waters' second Wall Concert series there and was on the floor and the sound was great. But I saw the Stones there with the lid closed and was in the middle of the bowl and the sound was awful. But concerts can work there quite easily if the roof is open,

Skydome itself is only 30 years old. Nowhere near the end of its life span. It can easily be made into a remarkable baseball park but that will take money and Rogers will not spend a dime on that. All Rogers wants is to redevlope the property to build more bullshit ugly box condos that the City of Toronto is already allowing to destroy the streetscape of this great city. Don't be fooled and don't let them.

And lastly, the land is owned by the City of Toronto. (It was previously owned by the Grand Trunk Railway which was folded into CN Rail when Wilfred Laurier merged several bankrupt railways into the federal Crown Corporation Canadian National Railways and was previously known as "the railway lands" and parts were sold to the City back in the 80's after being a huge issue for a decade or more. Rogers will need to buy that land. What's ironic is way back in the 1800's, that land was given to the railways as an enticement to build railway infrastructure not into Toronto, but all across Canada. Then the railways pull up stock and sell the land for a huge a profit. There are those who believe that when the railways walk away, the land should revert back to the crown. That did not happen in downtown to Toronto.

Here's a little walk down memory lane.

I wouldn't worry about the weather. With Rogers in charge Jays will not have many dates in the fall.

 

[Zoot Allures]

part of the issue is the arrogance of MLB. They demand you build a stadium to their standards and the taxpayers PAY FOR THE ARROGANT DEMANDS OF THEIR MONOPOLY

Someone should sue their monopoly in court of law

Same with the NHL. If a city like Hamilton wants a franchise they should get it

Fuck the Leafs with their arrogant turf claims

 

[Fun For All]

part of the issue is the arrogance of MLB. They demand you build a stadium to their standards and the taxpayers PAY FOR THE ARROGANT DEMANDS OF THEIR MONOPOLY

MLB should have standards set or they'd risk building crappy stadiums.

 

[james t kirk]

Ding, ding, ding ..... GAGNANT/WINNERS!

Camden Yards birth was the death knell of these plastic, antiseptic multipurpose arena stadiums of which the Skydome was the last to be built that were unsuited for football and especially unsuited for baseball. Think of all those 'toilet bowl stadiums that were built in 60's, 70's, 80's: Shea, Fulton County, Three Rivers, Riverfront, Anaheim, Oakland Coliseum, Astrodome, Veterans Stadium, Busch, Jack Murphy, the one in SF and the temporary bubble top stadiums in Detroit, Minneapolis, Seattle, Indianapolis.

I remember that Saturday in 1992 in when I saw a 2 - 3 page photo spread and article on Camden Yards in the Toronto Star. I went over to my brother-in-law's house, plopped that paper on his kitchen table and said, "the Skydome is dead".

It was that architectural firm out in Kansas I believe, not far from the 'Field of Dreams' corn fields of Iowa that came up with that blend of nostalgia, that longing for "a past no longer with us" and modernity that created Camden Yards and other similar type baseball stadiums.

Not another "Camden Yards" is the be all to end all. (And I think you're referring to HOK Architects.)

Camden yards is located in Baltimore MARYLAND which is at latitude of 39 degrees. Baltimore is right on top of Washington DC.

Toronto has a latitude of 43.6 degrees. That's 740 kilmotres SOUTH of us, or a 9 hour drive SOUTH.

Here's what Washington DC looks like around the 3'rd week in March:

Here's what Toronto looks like in the 3'rd week in March:

Notice a difference?

 

[Fun For All]

Quoted for the truth.

Rogers are full of shit and anyone with half a brain will see right though this ploy.

All Rogers wants is demolish skydome and build condos and rake in the money. Simple as that. The location of skydome is THEE best real estate in Toronto. If anyone thinks that Rogers / Brookfield will build a really great stadium, please give your collective heads a shake. Rogers will build a piece of shit cheap-assed stadium. As cheap as it gets. I read a post above where it was mentioned building down by the waterfront. (Ontario Place comes to mind right away.) Puhleaze. We built skydome in 89 because the old CNE stadium was a piece of shit and the wind off the lake used to HOWL through the joint. I'm old enough to remember it SNOWING during regular season Jays' games. It was TERRIBLE. Listen, in Toronto, we have maybe 2.5 to 3 decent months of weather to watch a ball game outside. Half of June and half of September plus July and August. Maybe. That fact has not changed. People's memories sure do grow dusty with time, or they weren't around to remember it.

Since Rogers has owned the Blue Jays, it's been all about cost cutting and the result is obvious from top to bottom in the organization and on the field. Any new stadium will be exactly the same. Cheap, cheap cheap.

The skydome is a great facility in a great location, close to the subway, close to the GO lines, close to Union Station, close to hotels, right downtown. There is no other better location.

Skydome is 30 years old and was built as a multi-use sports facility with both baseball and football in mind. Now that it's exclusively baseball, renovate it to have better sight lines, change out any problematic issues inside, etc.

There is no reason that this can't be a great ball park. None.

And to those who say it's a terrible place to see a concert, well, that depends. If the roof it open, it is no worse than any other large outdoor stadium. In some ways it's better because it's not so huge. The problem with seeing a concert at skydome occurs when the roof is closed because the sound waves stream out, follow the stands, then bounce of the roof structure. The result is destructive interference to the sound waves. In short, the sound moves away from the source, hits the roof, then bounces back creating a mess as the waves travelling in opposite directions crash into each other. With the roof closed, you need to be either as close as possible to sound source, or literally at the roof line. Anywhere in the middle is just a muddle of sound. I saw the U2360 show there (twice) and both instances the lid was open and the sound was great. (You need a very powerful sound system in a large venue.) I also saw Roger Waters' second Wall Concert series there and was on the floor and the sound was great. But I saw the Stones there with the lid closed and was in the middle of the bowl and the sound was awful. But concerts can work there quite easily if the roof is open,

Skydome itself is only 30 years old. Nowhere near the end of its life span. It can easily be made into a remarkable baseball park but that will take money and Rogers will not spend a dime on that. All Rogers wants is to redevlope the property to build more bullshit ugly box condos that the City of Toronto is already allowing to destroy the streetscape of this great city. Don't be fooled and don't let them.

And lastly, the land is owned by the City of Toronto. (It was previously owned by the Grand Trunk Railway which was folded into CN Rail when Wilfred Laurier merged several bankrupt railways into the federal Crown Corporation Canadian National Railways and was previously known as "the railway lands" and parts were sold to the City back in the 80's after being a huge issue for a decade or more. Rogers will need to buy that land. What's ironic is way back in the 1800's, that land was given to the railways as an enticement to build railway infrastructure not into Toronto, but all across Canada. Then the railways pull up stock and sell the land for a huge a profit. There are those who believe that when the railways walk away, the land should revert back to the crown. That did not happen in downtown to Toronto.

Here's a little walk down memory lane.

I'm not against Skydome/Rogers Centre as much as others...it is a great location and nice big concourse...seats are a little snug.

 

[james t kirk]

Why do I smell some sort of deal brewing between the Doug Ford Conservatives and Rogers?

Ford and company have been trying to figure out what the fuck to do with Ontario Place and have come up with Fuck All. (I say just turn the place into a park already.)

Now along comes Rogers wanting some free land to build a cheap assed stadium and redevelop the skydome into condos.

A match made in heaven.

I sure hope the fuck not.

 

[Fun For All]

Why do I smell some sort of deal brewing between the Doug Ford Conservatives and Rogers?

Ford and company have been trying to figure out what the fuck to do with Ontario Place and have come up with Fuck All. (I say just turn the place into a park already.)

Now along comes Rogers wanting some free land to build a cheap assed stadium and redevelop the skydome into condos.

A match made in heaven.

I sure hope the fuck not.

Why not...it sounds like something good could happen...

 

[jcpro]

Why not...it sounds like something good could happen...

Good for Rogers and Brookfield....and the Chinese "investors". Remember the big plans we had for the waterfront? The City Hall talked about it for over thirty years. It was going to be so glorious, it would put the Chicago's waterfront to shame and all we had there at the time was rat infested fuck all. And what happened? The land was sold individually and the condos are going up- roughly 30 more buildings are in the pipe line right now. A little parquette here and there, a few fancy curbs and that's the extent of the "vision". The rest is just tax rate per square foot.

 

[shack]

Quoted for the truth.

Rogers are full of shit and anyone with half a brain will see right though this ploy.

All Rogers wants is demolish skydome and build condos and rake in the money. Simple as that. The location of skydome is THEE best real estate in Toronto. If anyone thinks that Rogers / Brookfield will build a really great stadium out of some sense of altruism for the good citizens of Toronto, please give your collective heads a shake. Rogers will build a piece of shit cheap-assed stadium. As cheap as it gets. I read a post above where it was mentioned building down by the waterfront. (Ontario Place comes to mind right away.) Puhleaze. We built skydome in 89 because the old CNE stadium was a piece of shit and the wind off the lake used to HOWL through the joint. I'm old enough to remember it SNOWING during regular season Jays' games. It was TERRIBLE. Listen, in Toronto, we have maybe 2.5 to 3 decent months of weather to watch a ball game outside. Half of June and half of September plus July and August. Maybe. That fact has not changed. People's memories sure do grow dusty with time, or they weren't around to remember it.

Excellent post. There are some assumptions but reasonable ones.

One question. The downtown condo market is crapping out right now and seems to be the lone weak sector in the whole housing market. Investors are getting killed.

Wouldn't Rogers be wary about basing this plan on such a currently weak segment? Even without considering covid, it already seems like an issue of oversupply.

 

[Fun For All]

Excellent post. There are some assumptions but reasonable ones.

One question. The downtown condo market is crapping out right now and seems to be the lone weak sector in the whole housing market. Investors are getting killed.

Wouldn't Rogers be wary about basing this plan on such a currently weak segment? Even without considering covid, it already seems like an issue of oversupply.

Oversupply...it's about time...

 

[mandrill]

Excellent post. There are some assumptions but reasonable ones.

One question. The downtown condo market is crapping out right now and seems to be the lone weak sector in the whole housing market. Investors are getting killed.

Wouldn't Rogers be wary about basing this plan on such a currently weak segment? Even without considering covid, it already seems like an issue of oversupply.

It'll bounce back with the economy, as soon as the vaccine hits.

 

[mandrill]

Good for Rogers and Brookfield....and the Chinese "investors". Remember the big plans we had for the waterfront? The City Hall talked about it for over thirty years. It was going to be so glorious, it would put the Chicago's waterfront to shame and all we had there at the time was rat infested fuck all. And what happened? The land was sold individually and the condos are going up- roughly 30 more buildings are in the pipe line right now. A little parquette here and there, a few fancy curbs and that's the extent of the "vision". The rest is just tax rate per square foot.

What do you want? A massive park in the middle of the most expensive real estate in North America outside of Manhattan?

Plenty of room for parks further east or further west on the waterfront. And like JTK says, this isn't the optimum climate for parks exactly. Nice in May through September. What about the other 7 months?

 

[mandrill]

Why do I smell some sort of deal brewing between the Doug Ford Conservatives and Rogers?

Ford and company have been trying to figure out what the fuck to do with Ontario Place and have come up with Fuck All. (I say just turn the place into a park already.)

Now along comes Rogers wanting some free land to build a cheap assed stadium and redevelop the skydome into condos.

A match made in heaven.

I sure hope the fuck not.

Not the worst outcome though. Provincial governments have been sucking corporate dick for a century in the city and that's not going to change. A renewed Ontario Place built around "Roger-tario Ballpark" would at least make that land viable. And a corporation makes a dirty killing on real estate??... Well, that's the way of things. At least, we don't have insect-brain Kathleen Wynn suggesting we tear down the Gardiner, so she could throw more land into the mix for her sleazeball bagmen.

I hope to fuck they put a roof on Camden Yards North though! Maybe rebuild the existing Rogers Centre with ivy on the walls like Wrigley and a hotdog concession just like Boog Powell used to have at CY, just so it can be "classic Canadiana".

 

[jcpro]

What do you want? A massive park in the middle of the most expensive real estate in North America outside of Manhattan?

Plenty of room for parks further east or further west on the waterfront. And like JTK says, this isn't the optimum climate for parks exactly. Nice in May through September. What about the other 7 months?

LOL!!! I would settle for one of the fifty proposals I have personally seen. And not one of them involved a park. Although many did. The point is, there was no design, no vision, no theme and no esthetical or architectural considerations. Just a mad rush to collect by the developers and the city. Fine, we all cashed in, but don't be selling the same BS for the Roger's site. We know how that'll turn out.

 

[Zoot Allures]

MLB should have standards set or they'd risk building crappy stadiums.

So? A city and their taxpayers make that decision not a bunch of arrogant owners