RIP Jack Layton

[blackrock13]

Actually, there isn't even an official constitutional role given to a prime minister in our constitution. However, we all know that a prime minister exists, and is given a lot of power, and is given a state funeral after death. Cabinet ministers are also given state funerals if they die in office. So a sitting opposition leader should be accorded similar privileges at least as much as any cabinet minister. Opposition leaders are paid the same as cabinet ministers in the government, and given similar staffing privileges.

Sitting opposition leaders have also been given state funeral once before.

 

[someone]

Sitting opposition leaders have also been given state funeral once before.

Do you have a source? According to this source, it has not happened before, unless someone meet one of the other criteria (e.g. being a former PM).

“However, Layton’s funeral is unique in another way. Never before has someone who was solely leader of the Official Opposition died while in office, said LeBlanc. One other opposition leader, Wilfrid Laurier, did die in office, but as a former prime minister, he was automatically entitled to a state funeral.” from http://www.globalnews.ca/in+depth/6442469482/story.html

Unless you have a better source, I’m prepared to believe the “Senior Ceremonies Officer, for the Department of Canadian Heritage.”

That being said, if Layton is the first leader of the official opposition who is not a former PM to die in office, it is up to Harper to decide if he wants to start a new tradition, as he has. It would be interesting to know if there is a British precedent that might apply.

 

[Aardvark154]

Barbara Kay in The National Post has another viewpoint.

"It seems the rules are changing on who gets a state funeral in Canada. Jack Layton never led a government, never sat in cabinet and never served as governor-general. According to protocol and tradition, he should not be getting one. Why is he?

Because people liked him a lot, and because he was consumed by a cause in which triumph was contingent on overcoming tremendous odds, if at all, and because he faced up to a terrible illness with courage and dignity.

And because we live in a culture in which traditional mourning rituals dominated by religion have been discarded, but with nothing equally dignified to replace them, we have turned to sentimentality and kitsch to express our sense of loss

Call it teddy bear grief. Who can forget the hysteria around Princess Diana’s death, when a whole nation went slightly berserk with an outpouring of grief that was totally inappropriate and disproportionate. Anger at the paparazzi held responsible for the car crash was soon displaced by anger at the royal family for their seeming coolness. Hysteria grew over the fact that the flag at Buckingham Palace wasn’t at half mast even though no royal death would have warranted it according to protocol and tradition.

The only adult in the room at that time was the Queen, on holiday in Balmoral, who at first was unaware of the national mood, and when apprised of it, was instinctively repulsed by it. Tony Blair recalled that the Queen “rightly” viewed the public mood as “irrational.” But her advisors told her she had to make her sorrow public, and like the good soldier she is, she did, and the anger subsided.

Many politicians took a lesson from that episode. Stephen Harper was apparently one of them. He pre-empted condemnation of his aloofness detachment from human emotion by ordering a state funeral in order to satisfy the teddy-bear grief needs of a nation that has abandoned traditional channels for the expression of communal sorrow.

Protocol was invented for a good reason. Protocol allows people to perform on automatic pilot when stress clouds their ability to think clearly. It’s lovely to see the outpouring of affection for Jack, but a state funeral was the wrong decision. It is precisely when emotions run high that cooler heads should prevail. Stephen Harper has made a specialty of being the cooler head in many critical situations abroad. He goofed this time"

Then there was this by Joe Warmington in The Toronto Sun

How much does a state funeral for a not-normally-eligible opposition leader cost Canadian taxpayers?



Or is it not even on your mind?

Usually when you hear about unusual and unprecedented government spending, the first place you go for reaction is the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, which doesn’t pull punches — no matter who is in power.

“The Queen Mother’s funeral cost $2.3 million pounds in 2002, but they had 9,000 police and 3,000 troops,” said national director Greg Thomas. “Sgt Ryan Russell’s funeral in Toronto probably had a larger uniformed presence than the Layton funeral will. I couldn’t pull up the costs related to that funeral.”

As for Layton’s funeral?

“The Canadian Taxpayers Federation is not commenting on the state funeral for Jack Layton, except to affirm that this honour is befitting of his status as a currently serving leader of Her Majesty’s Official Opposition, on medical leave when he died.”

Is questioning the cost to the public of an out-of-protocol funeral appropriate? Same goes for asking a guy battling cancer if he was healthy enough to run for the top job in the land? Seemed like a fair question last spring.

Six months later, had Layton won the election, we would be without a prime minister right now and perhaps have a former separatist as interim leader?

People seem uncomfortable with tough questions concerning popular Layton. So many — foes as well as friends — liked and respected the NDP leader and former Toronto councillor — myself included. Even Prime Minister Stephen Harper succumbed to the emotion by offering Layton’s grieving widow, MP Olivia Chow, the state funeral.

In Great Britain such a gesture would require a vote in parliament. But imagine how the left would have vilified Harper had he chosen to do that? Either way is it how taxpayer’s money should be spent?

Before you dismiss the question as heartless, consider the potential precedent setting cost. Layton was just recently elected opposition leader. We question government spending on everything bike lanes to fighter jets. Is there a limit to our probing of how public funds are spent?

For example, Layton was never prime minister or a cabinet minister or even a municipal mayor. He never held any in-power positions and certainly was not the pope, king, saint or John Lennon that some on the left want to anoint him in their quest to create a martyr.

There’s nothing wrong with it. But should you be paying for a portion of it?

Layton was a good man but up until now Canada did not have state funerals for opposition leaders.

Would that money be better off spent to help the homeless? Or the tornado-ravaged people of Goderich? Nobody questioned how and where to earmark Canada’s money more than Layton.

Would this funeral have been paid for by the taxpayers had it been a separatist as opposition leader like Lucien Bouchard? And in such a scenario would it be taboo to ask how much it cost us?

Certainly taxpayer’s money has been spent on other controversial events — close to $1 billion for the G8, G20 and $10-million on the Rolling Stones SARSTOCK at Downsview. But those decisions were scrutinized and criticized.

Should this one be?

Perhaps, it will be more appropriate when all the bills are in — especially if Saturday turns into a taxpayer-funded NDP rally.

Sun Media librarian Katherine Webb-Nelson found that former prime minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau’s state funeral in 2000 came in at $665,455 — including $68,000 for him to lie in state, $50,000 for a big screen at the church, more than $20,000 for thank you cards, newspaper ads and an official photographer and $46,000 for the travel costs of the pallbearers and for RCMP security overtime.

But Trudeau was prime minister for 15 years and a legend on the political landscape. Does an opposition leader of just months deserve the same treatment?

 

[blackrock13]

Do you have a source? According to this source, it has not happened before, unless someone meet one of the other criteria (e.g. being a former PM).

“However, Layton’s funeral is unique in another way. Never before has someone who was solely leader of the Official Opposition died while in office, said LeBlanc. One other opposition leader, Wilfrid Laurier, did die in office, but as a former prime minister, he was automatically entitled to a state funeral.” from http://www.globalnews.ca/in+depth/6442469482/story.html

Unless you have a better source, I’m prepared to believe the “Senior Ceremonies Officer, for the Department of Canadian Heritage.”

That being said, if Layton is the first leader of the official opposition who is not a former PM to die in office, it is up to Harper to decide if he wants to start a new tradition, as he has. It would be interesting to know if there is a British precedent that might apply.

Laurier was a PM, but was the Opposition Leader when he died. I believed Stanfield, was offered one but it was turned it down. Also make note of Smokey Smith VC, a simple soldier, was given the opportunity.

 

[someone]

Laurier was a PM, but was the Opposition Leader when he died. I believed Stanfield, was offered one but it was turned it down. Also make note of Smokey Smith VC, a simple soldier, was given the opportunity.

Laurier got one because he was a former PM. However, if Stanfield was offered one only because he was a former leader of the opposition, there would be a precedent. It would be an unclear one unless all were offered it but it would be some sort of precedent. BTW, I would never refer to VC recipient, as “simple solder”. A hell of a lot of VCs get awarded post humorously. That is an entirely different matter. I think you’re on much stronger ground with Stanfield if the story is true.

 

[Jennifer_]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/08/23/pol-state-funeral-faq.html?ref=rss

Q: Who gets one?

A: Present and former governors general, prime ministers and sitting members of cabinet, or any other eminent Canadian for whom the prime minister wants to offer it. Families can turn them down if they choose.

 

[fuji]

For reference, the Leader of the Opposition is 14th in precedence in Canada, just behind Cabinet Ministers, but ahead of sitting Provincial Lieutenant Governors, and ahead of all Provincial Premiers, in all matters of protocol.

It is RIDICULOUS to believe that a sitting Leader of the Opposition would not receive a state funeral, given that sort of standing in Canadian tradition.

RIDICULOUS.

If you say that Layton shouldn't get a State Funeral you are implicitly saying that if a Premier died in office they should not get one either. Ridiculous. Outrageous!

http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/ceem-cced/prtcl/precedence-eng.cfm

 

[moviefan]

My hunch is most people are probably fine with a state funeral.

 

[Loosely]

..Cost of Jack Layton’s state funeral questioned as thousands pay tribute

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/cana...neral-questioned-thousands-pay-203429851.html


By Andy Radia | Canada Politics – 4 hours ago........
How much will Jack Layton's funeral cost Canadian taxpayers?

It's a question being asked by at least one, some would say crass, columnist from the Toronto Sun.

In a column Tuesday, Joe Warmington asks readers to consider the potential precedent-setting cost before deeming him heartless.

"We question government spending on everything from bike lanes to fighter jets. Is there a limit to our probing of how public funds are spent?" he wrote.

"Layton was a good man but up until now Canada did not have state funerals for Opposition leaders. Would this funeral have been paid for by the taxpayers had it been a separatist as Opposition leader like Lucien Bouchard?

"Nobody questioned how and where to earmark Canada's money more than Layton."

On Tuesday, The Globe and Mail reported Layton had hoped his funeral would be a public "celebration of life," quoting senior Layton aide Kathleen Monk as saying the funeral should be "used as an opportunity to build the movement, inspire people to work for change and create a better Canada."

If Stephen Harper hadn't offered the Layton family a state funeral, he would have faced a significant public outcry.

Barbara Kay, of the National Post, draws a link between Layton's death and the death of Princess Diana, where Queen Elizabeth was chastized for the Royal family's "coolness".

"(Harper) pre-empted condemnation of his aloofness detachment from human emotion by ordering a state funeral in order to satisfy the teddy-bear grief needs of a nation," she wrote.

As part of the pomp and circumstance of the state funeral, Layton's casket arrived on Parliament Hill Wednesday with the carillon bells tolling 15 times. When it departs on Thursday, it will be hailed by a 15-gun salute.

Traditionally, state funerals are offered to prime ministers, governor generals and current members of Cabinet. Unlike a usual state funeral, in which the deceased would lie in the Hall of Honour, Layton's body is in the foyer of the House of Commons.

In terms of cost, Sun Media librarian Katherine Webb-Nelson found former prime minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau's state funeral in 2000 came in at $665,455.

"Trudeau was prime minister for 15 years and a legend on the political landscape," added Warmington in a comment about the cost.

"Does an Opposition leader of just months deserve the same treatment?"

Only taxpayers can answer that question.

 

[someone]

It would be interesting to know if there is a British precedent that might apply.

I was hoping someone else would do the work of finding the answer to this question. Normally our traditions come from them. However, I just found out that in the UK even prime ministers are not automatically entitled to one (Churchill was the last one to get a state funeral). Moreover, their state funerals require a vote in parliament. I was surprised as normally we get these traditions from them. Given we have already broken precedent with the UK by giving all PMs state funerals, it looks like it is entirely uncharted ground, which leaves it totally up to Harper.

 

[blackrock13]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/cana...neral-questioned-thousands-pay-203429851.html


By Andy Radia | Canada Politics – 4 hours ago........
How much will Jack Layton's funeral cost Canadian taxpayers?

It's a question being asked by at least one, some would say crass, columnist from the Toronto Sun.

In a column Tuesday, Joe Warmington asks readers to consider the potential precedent-setting cost before deeming him heartless.

"We question government spending on everything from bike lanes to fighter jets. Is there a limit to our probing of how public funds are spent?" he wrote.

"Layton was a good man but up until now Canada did not have state funerals for Opposition leaders. Would this funeral have been paid for by the taxpayers had it been a separatist as Opposition leader like Lucien Bouchard?

"Nobody questioned how and where to earmark Canada's money more than Layton."

On Tuesday, The Globe and Mail reported Layton had hoped his funeral would be a public "celebration of life," quoting senior Layton aide Kathleen Monk as saying the funeral should be "used as an opportunity to build the movement, inspire people to work for change and create a better Canada."

If Stephen Harper hadn't offered the Layton family a state funeral, he would have faced a significant public outcry.

Barbara Kay, of the National Post, draws a link between Layton's death and the death of Princess Diana, where Queen Elizabeth was chastized for the Royal family's "coolness".

"(Harper) pre-empted condemnation of his aloofness detachment from human emotion by ordering a state funeral in order to satisfy the teddy-bear grief needs of a nation," she wrote.

As part of the pomp and circumstance of the state funeral, Layton's casket arrived on Parliament Hill Wednesday with the carillon bells tolling 15 times. When it departs on Thursday, it will be hailed by a 15-gun salute.

Traditionally, state funerals are offered to prime ministers, governor generals and current members of Cabinet. Unlike a usual state funeral, in which the deceased would lie in the Hall of Honour, Layton's body is in the foyer of the House of Commons.

In terms of cost, Sun Media librarian Katherine Webb-Nelson found former prime minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau's state funeral in 2000 came in at $665,455.

"Trudeau was prime minister for 15 years and a legend on the political landscape," added Warmington in a comment about the cost.

"Does an Opposition leader of just months deserve the same treatment?"

Only taxpayers can answer that question.

Well considering the hilighted point is total speculation, it will get the attention it's worth from me, not much.

So now we wan too quantify state funerals. This guy is worth 600 G's, this guy 400 G's and you, well you know, we alway did like him best. A state funeral is a state funeral.

 

[Possum Trot]

Look as long as we don't build him a fake lake I'm not sure what there is to complain about. On a related thought does anyone think there would have been the same outporing of grief and state funeral if it had been Iggy? I suppose there is precedence to consider but the cost seems minimal to me.

There is a certain Greek tragedy element to all of this which is resonating with the public. Struck down following his greatest success, after years of struggle etc etc. There is absolutely no question we are Dianifying him and I'm sure he would be happy about that. But so what.

 

[moviefan]

On a related thought does anyone think there would have been the same outporing of grief and state funeral if it had been Iggy? I suppose there is precedence to consider but the cost seems minimal to me.

This may seem uncharitable in a Blatch-like way, but do we actually know that there is a huge outpouring of grief?

The media seem to think so, but sometimes I don't know that the media reflect the public mood. For example, I don't think the public was as freaked out about that police officer who was killed last winter as the media reports suggested.

I'm not saying that people don't feel bad for Jack's family, or that they aren't sympathetic about his fight with cancer. But I'm not sure people are as consumed with Jack's death as the media reports suggest.

 

[Lord_Rambures]

RIP Jack.

This may seem uncharitable in a Blatch-like way, but do we actually know that there is a huge outpouring of grief?

The media seem to think so, but sometimes I don't know that the media reflect the public mood. For example, I don't think the public was as freaked out about that police officer who was killed last winter as the media reports suggested.

I'm not saying that people don't feel bad for Jack's family, or that they aren't sympathetic about his fight with cancer. But I'm not sure people are as consumed with Jack's death as the media reports suggest.

Its obvious you don't like him, but you have to let this go. You have no idea how small minded and petty you appear to most people on this board.

http://torontoist.com/2011/08/mourning_jack_layton_in_nathan_phillips_square.php

Have you been to Nathan Phillips Square this week? I had business downtown yesterday and stopped by for a few minutes, all I can say is 'amazing'! Jack Layton was an engaging individual. He touched old and young alike with his enthusiasm, and belief that the people of Canada deserve better from their elected officials. Jack entered the political arena in 1982, but don't forget, he was also a Professor at Ryerson for a number of years 1974 - 1982.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...-hill-opens-doors-hearts-to-layton-and-family

By day’s end, more than 3,000 had gone through and officials decided to keep Parliament’s doors open until well after the appointed closing time.

http://news.buzzgain.com/how-many-tweets-does-it-take-to-be-a-trending-topic-on-twitter/

#RIPJACKLAYTON trended Worldwide on Twitter for most of the day on Monday, and again on Tuesday.

How many tweets does it take to be a trending topic on Twitter?

Trending topic on Twitter
While not completely convinced of the value of a trending topic on twitter, besides an ego boost, its nevertheless a very question that we get asked by a lot of customers. It is usually asked in one of two ways:

“How many tweets does it take in a given time period to be a trending topic on twitter?” or

“How many people have to talk about this on twitter to make this topic appear as a top one on Twitter Search?”

First some quick facts and numbers so we can baseline over the last 7 days:

1. The average number of tweets per day is 1.9 Million

2. The average number of unique twitter users per day is about 631,737

3. The average number of unique twitter users online per hour is 48,233

4. The average number of unique tweets per hour is 83,394 and unique tweets / minute is ~ 1350

5. Number of unique trending topics per day is ~8900 (these are for one specific day, but average over the last 7 days is in this range). Trending topic has a “shelf life” of 11 minutes, most though are less than 5 minutes. N.B. There are 10 top trending topics shown on Search.Twitter.com at any time.

Unique Twitter users and tweets by hour
The million $ question of how many tweets it takes to trend depends on 2 things - # of people tweeting at the same time on topic and the hour of the day.

What other factors matter?

1. How many followers in total exist for the people online at that time? This will make it easier for that topic to be distributed quicker and hence trend faster on twitter

2. Nature of the topic – Breaking news, politics and technology related topics do very well on Twitter. We ignored inane (in our words) topics like Good night, tired etc.

3. Location of twitter users – this is a nature of time, but most twitter users are in coastal United States, Japan. If you wish to trend a topic on Twitter, during the timezone they are most active, you are better off talking about topics that interest them.

Assuming Pacific Standard Time, our research indicates:

Between 12 (midnight) to 6 am PDT: approximately 1200 tweets and about 500 users to be trending

Between 6 am to 12 Noon PDT: 1700 tweets and about 733 users

Between 12 noon to 6 pm: 1500 tweets and about 812 users (this may be because there are more people during this time but they tweet a lot less)

Between 6 pm to 12 midnight: 1900 tweets and about 922 users

Some points to note: These numbers will vary by nature of topic, date and appeal of topic worldwide. This gives you a rough estimate or a ballpark,but is not in anyway comprehensive.

 

[Loosely]

Gutsy Jack — a tough socialist

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/22/gutsy-jack--a-tough-socialist


They always seem to say nice things after you are dead.



The truth is Jack Layton was a crafty, unrelenting and tricky political opponent for those on the right. He was as formidable as he was calculating. In the end it was only cancer that could stop him in his tracks.

And even it had a difficult time.

Layton, who died Monday at 61, was a tough SOB of a socialist.

Even he wouldn’t want to sugar coat it. He never apologized for it, never wavered in his principles and never complained about being routinely trotted out as the right wing’s boogeyman. He wore it like a badge of honour.

And he went a long way.

Certainly, on the left federally, there arguably has never been anybody as effective, or more a thorn in the side of corporate Canada. Jack was a left-over 1960s hippie type who made it to the top of the halls of power but never sold out along the way.

But he did cash in.

Last year he and his fellow MP wife Olivia Chow billed taxpayers more than $1.1-million in expenses to go along with their combined almost $370,000 in salary.

He may have advocated for the homeless but he was hardly one of them — in fact, he lived on the public purse for the better part of 30 years. However, he was elected there.

People wanted him and right up to his last breath, he was doing his very best to try to serve and push forward their interests and agenda.

Jack was no angel and never purported to be. He had his share of controversies from being investigated by the Chief Julian Fantino for being part of a anti-poverty riot at Queen’s Park, to living in rent controlled housing while earning major income to a bizarre encounter with police years ago inside a Chinatown massage parlour that resulted in no charges.

However his slickest political move was in 2008 when he led the failed “coup” to form a coalition government in an attempt to knock minority-elected Prime Minister Stephen Harper to the sidelines.
Rough and tumble is how Layton liked his politics. He never held a grudge; he had the thickest skin. Along the way Jack has picked up many nicknames: Citizen Jack, Gentleman Jack, Genius Jack, Vladimir Jack, Taliban Jack, Chairman Jack and Jack-O-Lenin!

The one I think is most poignant is Gutsy Jack.

When the spring election was called he was just coming out of surgery for his cracked hip, had publicly been battling prostate cancer and looked thin and gaunt. He was walking with a cane and the speculation was he was riddled with cancer and would not be able to fight a federal election.

He insisted he was more than ready to go — telling me personally “when you are lying in a hospital bed after hip surgery you kind of lose your appetite. Don’t worry, I have got my appetite back and I will be packing on the pounds again soon.”

Six months later he’s gone.

Whether or not his secondary cancer had already spread, he went out and won enough seats to become the leader of Canada’s official and loyal opposition. He will go down in history.

No NDP leader led his party to more seats in parliament and his wiping the separatist Bloc Quebecois off the political landscape may be his most important contribution.

“It’s sad because with Jack there was a real opportunity to bring Quebec in to Canada,” former CAW president Buzz Hargrove told me. “He had a real love of the idea of a united Canada.”

Alive or dead, that’s not a bad thing to have said about you.

 

[Aardvark154]

I was hoping someone else would do the work of finding the answer to this question. Normally our traditions come from them. However, I just found out that in the UK even prime ministers are not automatically entitled to one (Churchill was the last one to get a state funeral). Moreover, their state funerals require a vote in parliament. I was surprised as normally we get these traditions from them. . . .

Further to which most "formal funerals" in the U.K. are Ceremonial Funerals even the late Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother's funeral was a Royal Ceremonial Funeral rather than a State Funeral (since her husband King George VI predeceased her).

 

[Lord_Rambures]

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/22/gutsy-jack--a-tough-socialist


They always seem to say nice things after you are dead.



The truth is Jack Layton was a crafty, unrelenting and tricky political opponent for those on the right. He was as formidable as he was calculating. In the end it was only cancer that could stop him in his tracks.

And even it had a difficult time.

Layton, who died Monday at 61, was a tough SOB of a socialist.

Even he wouldn’t want to sugar coat it. He never apologized for it, never wavered in his principles and never complained about being routinely trotted out as the right wing’s boogeyman. He wore it like a badge of honour.

And he went a long way.

Certainly, on the left federally, there arguably has never been anybody as effective, or more a thorn in the side of corporate Canada. Jack was a left-over 1960s hippie type who made it to the top of the halls of power but never sold out along the way.

But he did cash in.

Last year he and his fellow MP wife Olivia Chow billed taxpayers more than $1.1-million in expenses to go along with their combined almost $370,000 in salary.

He may have advocated for the homeless but he was hardly one of them — in fact, he lived on the public purse for the better part of 30 years. However, he was elected there.

People wanted him and right up to his last breath, he was doing his very best to try to serve and push forward their interests and agenda.

Jack was no angel and never purported to be. He had his share of controversies from being investigated by the Chief Julian Fantino for being part of a anti-poverty riot at Queen’s Park, to living in rent controlled housing while earning major income to a bizarre encounter with police years ago inside a Chinatown massage parlour that resulted in no charges.

However his slickest political move was in 2008 when he led the failed “coup” to form a coalition government in an attempt to knock minority-elected Prime Minister Stephen Harper to the sidelines.
Rough and tumble is how Layton liked his politics. He never held a grudge; he had the thickest skin. Along the way Jack has picked up many nicknames: Citizen Jack, Gentleman Jack, Genius Jack, Vladimir Jack, Taliban Jack, Chairman Jack and Jack-O-Lenin!

The one I think is most poignant is Gutsy Jack.

When the spring election was called he was just coming out of surgery for his cracked hip, had publicly been battling prostate cancer and looked thin and gaunt. He was walking with a cane and the speculation was he was riddled with cancer and would not be able to fight a federal election.

He insisted he was more than ready to go — telling me personally “when you are lying in a hospital bed after hip surgery you kind of lose your appetite. Don’t worry, I have got my appetite back and I will be packing on the pounds again soon.”

Six months later he’s gone.

Whether or not his secondary cancer had already spread, he went out and won enough seats to become the leader of Canada’s official and loyal opposition. He will go down in history.

No NDP leader led his party to more seats in parliament and his wiping the separatist Bloc Quebecois off the political landscape may be his most important contribution.

“It’s sad because with Jack there was a real opportunity to bring Quebec in to Canada,” former CAW president Buzz Hargrove told me. “He had a real love of the idea of a united Canada.”

Alive or dead, that’s not a bad thing to have said about you.

Whats your point? They all feed at the public trough. As for the Hazelburn co op, you do realize that Jack and Olivia paid market rent while they lived there, don't you. Do you even understand how a co op works? The Laytons were cleared years ago of any wrong doing, but hey, you are quoting The Sun LOL - whatever. I also can't find any source, other then The Sun, to substantiate the 1.1 mil in expenses claim.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...mons-speaker-110602/20110602/?hub=CalgaryHome

The Speaker job comes with a number of desirable perks, including a $233,000 annual salary and an $800,000 travel and entertainment budget. The successful candidate will also enjoy the use of a country home and a full-time driver.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/list...&Section=03d93c58-f843-49b3-9653-84275c23f3fb

 

[fuji]

Layton's critics don't care that he paid market rent while living at the co-op. They don't like his poiltics, and it makes them feel good to criticize his lifestyle, even when their assertions are not meaningfully rooted in facts. I notice that the people who are critical of his funeral arrangements, whether here or on terb, or in the press, are the usual suspects. People who dislike his socialist policies, and have generally all got track records of posting misleading and partisan allegations that aren't very well founded in fact. Everybody else, up to and including Stephen Harper, is pretty comfortable with the idea that the man had an impact in Canada, held a post with significant precedence in Canadian protocol, and all generally have no issue with the funeral, or with him having written a letter (possibly with some help) outlining what he saw as his achievements.

Those critical just strike me as petty in the extreme.

 

[Jennifer_]

This may seem uncharitable in a Blatch-like way, but do we actually know that there is a huge outpouring of grief?

The media seem to think so, but sometimes I don't know that the media reflect the public mood. For example, I don't think the public was as freaked out about that police officer who was killed last winter as the media reports suggested.

I'm not saying that people don't feel bad for Jack's family, or that they aren't sympathetic about his fight with cancer. But I'm not sure people are as consumed with Jack's death as the media reports suggest.

... you're kidding right?

Take a walk down to Nathan Phillips Square.
I was overwhelmed when I saw how far the chalk messages stretched on the wall and ground. Even though the rain washed a lot of it away..... It's still impressive.
A quick look at Twitter or Facebook the day he died was enough to tell me the general mood.
I'm in my early 30s (cough late 20s... lol). Perhaps I have a disproprortionate amount of friends who believed in Layton's political stance since he did indeed appeal to young voters more than the other parties.... but to question Canadians' grief in regards to his death is just plain silly.

I don't understand why some people are so bothered by the fact that people care that we lost a good man; probably one of the few truly sincere men in Canadian politics.

It makes me really sad to see some of the posts here....

I'm a liberal ~ NDP is too far left for me.... that doesn't make me so closed-minded that I cannot see that Jack Layton was a good man who fought for what he believed to be in the best interest of Canadians till his death. I believe he deserves our utmost respect.

If you don't respect him, respect your fellow Canadians who do and think before you speak.

 

[Loosely]

Whats your point? They all feed at the public trough. As for the Hazelburn co op, you do realize that Jack and Olivia paid market rent while they lived there, don't you. Do you even understand how a co op works? The Laytons were cleared years ago of any wrong doing, but hey, you are quoting The Sun LOL - whatever. I also can't find any source, other then The Sun, to substantiate the 1.1 mil in expenses claim.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...mons-speaker-110602/20110602/?hub=CalgaryHome

The Speaker job comes with a number of desirable perks, including a $233,000 annual salary and an $800,000 travel and entertainment budget. The successful candidate will also enjoy the use of a country home and a full-time driver.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/list...&Section=03d93c58-f843-49b3-9653-84275c23f3fb

Jack and Olivia billed it to the taxpayers as a bonus and it was not part of a budget which they did or did not have as councillor and then they bought their unmortgaged home in China town after living in a housing co-operative subsidized by the federal government. Btw, Olivia has thyroid cancer which is currently in remission and once she becomes sick and leader of the NDP party, parliament will throw away more of taxpayers money for another state funeral and then send her back to Hong Kong where she was born.:canada: