Relationship Recession Going Global

[southpaw]

What we give is mostly peanuts.
So we are helping but we aren't feeding them.

Then why bother? Since, according to you, they can clearly feed themselves.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Then why bother? Since, according to you, they can clearly feed themselves.

It's entirely our call.
They aren't asking us.

 

[wiskey bravo]

Women don’t need men for support anymore. They don’t need men for their money or bank accounts or credit cards like back in the days of your grandparents and great grandparents.

Because of that, women are simply not settling or don’t see the point in being in a relationship when they pay 50/50 and still do 100% of the housework and child raising. Marriage benefits men now. Not women. It is basically voluntary subjugation for women to get married.

Interesting comment. Lets break this down further.

If women don't need men that means the women is working and she's probably putting in the same working hours as the man. So who's raising the child when both parties are at work? Daycare and it's happening as soon as a child turns 1.5 years old. Kid's are being dropped off as early as 0700am and picked up at 18:00. No parents are present actually and daycare is doing the heavy lifting.

As for the house duties, sure I get my meals made but in todays times I don't know anyone who sits and takes the back seat. Maybe going back 20-30 years ago, however, during those times it was affordable for one person to stay at home. Lets also not forget both parties MUST work and that aspect of life never gets brought up. If you're living in a family size home and the income is coming from one person there's a good chance that individual is not working 9-4. Lot's of friends who make 500K plus, but you're working from 9am to 9pm so yes one person will be doing all the work. But that one person who's at home has a different expectations from the past. I know many women who don't work and expect the following: full time nanny, house cleaner while a child is at school full time. Full time nanny is about 3,500.00 - 4,000.00 net per month. House cleaner 200-300 per month. Daycare 3000.00 net per month. I don't care if you're mom or dad, i care about keeping up with these payments. We haven't even touched house, food, cars, bla bla bla. This added expense to compensate for requires mom, dad or both mom and dad to earn an extra 150,000 - 160,000 gross.

I don't know any man who's allowed their women to do the following.....cut the grass, shoveled the driveway, put winter tires on, changed the breaks, built a deck, finished the basement.....I also don't know any man who doesn't clean, grocery shop and neglect their child. My perspective is from a modern world and this is what I see in todays times with the people in my circle. I do know men that don't change diapers, however, their net worth ranges from 300M to 6 billion. That league of wealth comes with different problems than the ones you and I share.

Generally speaking we all need each other. I can't do this alone. If you're doing it alone - great. You're not getting a trophy and any you won't be viewed any differently. You and I will die and be buried no differently than anyone else. As for life, I know I can raise myself and my child cheaper than as a family.

Lastly, I heard an escort say to me once " i don't need men ". Yes it was said jokingly. And I jokingly responded " i guess you should update you profile to read women only then ".

If this message sounds rough my apologies. It's not meant to be understood that way ". It's hard trying to deliver a message without the physical or verbal touch.

 

[Ginomore]

Women don’t need men for support anymore. They don’t need men for their money or bank accounts or credit cards like back in the days of your grandparents and great grandparents.

Because of that, women are simply not settling or don’t see the point in being in a relationship when they pay 50/50 and still do 100% of the housework and child raising. Marriage benefits men now. Not women. It is basically voluntary subjugation for women to get married.

The majority of spousal and child support is from the husband to the wife.
This may change in the future as women are starting to earn more money however right now
women are incentivized to end a marriage because the courts overwhelmingly favour them in the divorce process.

 

[wiskey bravo]

The majority of spousal and child support is from the husband to the wife.
This may change in the future as women are starting to earn more money however right now
women are incentivized to end a marriage because the courts overwhelmingly favour them in the divorce process.

This is correct. If i take my child to daycare at the age of 1.5, there's a 100K difference between myself and wife, she divorces me tomorrow I MUST pay her spousal support just because she makes less. No exceptions. Florida passed a new law. If you split up within the first five years the both of you walk away not paying anything to each other. They also banned lifetime spousal support. The system requires updating.

Child support is intended for the child right? That means every single dollar goes into that child's month. Is that the case today? If a parent took 30.00 dollars away from that child and used it on their nails you're a thief.

On a final note....In my lifetime I met 6 married gay men who split up. Half with children. No issues during the spit. None of them fought the way men and women do. Zero greed. They actually informed me a divorce costs 1000-1500.00. That's how cheap it is when nobody is fighting over money.

 

[Jenesis]

The majority of spousal and child support is from the husband to the wife.
This may change in the future as women are starting to earn more money however right now
women are incentivized to end a marriage because the courts overwhelmingly favour them in the divorce process.

As I said, if some men would utilize to court system properly or do things differently in their marriage, this wouldn’t be an issue. Sorry but men have some responsibility in this.

And women are not just ending marriages for no reason. Let’s not try and play that game. Women have lots of reason for divorce. Again one being working full time and still doing all the daily housework and child raising. Men not know anything about their kids. Not doctors, teachers, extracurricular activities and schedules. Or men cheating. The examples are endless.

Interesting comment. Lets break this down further.

If women don't need men that means the women is working and she's probably putting in the same working hours as the man. So who's raising the child when both parties are at work? Daycare and it's happening as soon as a child turns 1.5 years old. Kid's are being dropped off as early as 0700am and picked up at 18:00. No parents are present actually and daycare is doing the heavy lifting.

As for the house duties, sure I get my meals made but in todays times I don't know anyone who sits and takes the back seat. Maybe going back 20-30 years ago, however, during those times it was affordable for one person to stay at home. Lets also not forget both parties MUST work and that aspect of life never gets brought up. If you're living in a family size home and the income is coming from one person there's a good chance that individual is not working 9-4. Lot's of friends who make 500K plus, but you're working from 9am to 9pm so yes one person will be doing all the work. But that one person who's at home has a different expectations from the past. I know many women who don't work and expect the following: full time nanny, house cleaner while a child is at school full time. Full time nanny is about 3,500.00 - 4,000.00 net per month. House cleaner 200-300 per month. Daycare 3000.00 net per month. I don't care if you're mom or dad, i care about keeping up with these payments. We haven't even touched house, food, cars, bla bla bla. This added expense to compensate for requires mom, dad or both mom and dad to earn an extra 150,000 - 160,000 gross.

I don't know any man who's allowed their women to do the following.....cut the grass, shoveled the driveway, put winter tires on, changed the breaks, built a deck, finished the basement.....I also don't know any man who doesn't clean, grocery shop and neglect their child. My perspective is from a modern world and this is what I see in todays times with the people in my circle. I do know men that don't change diapers, however, their net worth ranges from 300M to 6 billion. That league of wealth comes with different problems than the ones you and I share.

Generally speaking we all need each other. I can't do this alone. If you're doing it alone - great. You're not getting a trophy and any you won't be viewed any differently. You and I will die and be buried no differently than anyone else. As for life, I know I can raise myself and my child cheaper than as a family.

Lastly, I heard an escort say to me once " i don't need men ". Yes it was said jokingly. And I jokingly responded " i guess you should update you profile to read women only then ".

If this message sounds rough my apologies. It's not meant to be understood that way ". It's hard trying to deliver a message without the physical or verbal touch.

Not all women are having kids either. So no - she is not just sending her kid to daycare because she is staying single and child free.

so what if she is. She is clearly paying for it and I'm not about to shit on any parent for using daycare.

I'm not saying that double income is not important or in some places, required but studies still show that women do more of the work at home and men are still falling behind on their share of the workload and child raising. I'm not saying they need to go out hire someone to clean their house. I'm saying men can do the dishes. And properly. Also, I don't know anyone who is a SAHM, not working and expecting a full time nanny.

And let's be real, there is a big difference between doing the daily household chores and cutting the grass 2-3 times a month. And you are not changing the breaks, the mechanic is and she is probably booking the appointment. Building a deck??? Again, probably hired out but if not, you are building it once. You can't compare task that are not done often to the daily job of running a household.

This is correct. If i take my child to daycare at the age of 1.5, there's a 100K difference between myself and wife, she divorces me tomorrow I MUST pay her spousal support just because she makes less. No exceptions. Florida passed a new law. If you split up within the first five years the both of you walk away not paying anything to each other. They also banned lifetime spousal support. The system requires updating.

Child support is intended for the child right? That means every single dollar goes into that child's month. Is that the case today? If a parent took 30.00 dollars away from that child and used it on their nails you're a thief.

On a final note....In my lifetime I met 6 married gay men who split up. Half with children. No issues during the spit. None of them fought the way men and women do. Zero greed. They actually informed me a divorce costs 1000-1500.00. That's how cheap it is when nobody is fighting over money.

No you don't have to pay her spousal support. That is not how it works. Not in Ontario. Where this board is.

Also - if she takes your child support payment and pays for her nails, what does it matter when she paid the full rent that is over the child's head. I don't see the father paying the landlord. So he owes her money that she already paid out. For example, if the child's part of the rent is 200 and she paid that full 200 and then the father owes the mother 100. Which means she can use 30 of it because she already paid his portion to the landlord. It is not theft. It is using money that you already paid out and were paid back.

Bottomline - women are getting smart and choosing not to be married or have kids. Men are going over seas because they want women who cook and clean and serve them. Because women here are getting smart and not doing it anymore. That is the whole problem. Women are taking care of themselves and not men anymore.

 

[moredale7]

The misogyny movement is turning off women.

misogyny movement ? when did that happen?

 

[moredale7]

Wokeism and the new gender lineup have turned people off people.

 

[that6969]

"Women don't need men" I dunno...if your business provides a service and 99.9% of your customers are men then. . . . . .Not that you need to live with the person, but you're still relying on men. I like when some feminist burst out stuff like that based on what they do and who their biggest clientele is.

 

[that6969]

misogyny movement ? when did that happen?

IIRC back in the late 90s they tried to blame Eminem lolol

 

[superman2006]

Trust me on this - getting married and then divorced is more costly than stay single and banging escorts

 

[Jenesis]

Trust me on this - getting married and then divorced is more costly than stay single and banging escorts

I would agree. It is much much much better being an escort financially and being single then married and a SAHM or even a working mom sharing the bills. I wouldn't trade my life for the world. I will pay all the bills myself, mow the lawn myself, hire a contractor for the deck and a mechanic for the car and just enjoy life with no headaches, drama or bullshit.

if I had of known then what I know now, I would have started escorting back then and never been in a relationship.

 

[wiskey bravo]

As I said, if some men would utilize to court system properly or do things differently in their marriage, this wouldn’t be an issue. Sorry but men have some responsibility in this.

And women are not just ending marriages for no reason. Let’s not try and play that game. Women have lots of reason for divorce. Again one being working full time and still doing all the daily housework and child raising. Men not know anything about their kids. Not doctors, teachers, extracurricular activities and schedules. Or men cheating. The examples are endless.

Not all women are having kids either. So no - she is not just sending her kid to daycare because she is staying single and child free.

so what if she is. She is clearly paying for it and I'm not about to shit on any parent for using daycare.

I'm not saying that double income is not important or in some places, required but studies still show that women do more of the work at home and men are still falling behind on their share of the workload and child raising. I'm not saying they need to go out hire someone to clean their house. I'm saying men can do the dishes. And properly. Also, I don't know anyone who is a SAHM, not working and expecting a full time nanny.

And let's be real, there is a big difference between doing the daily household chores and cutting the grass 2-3 times a month. And you are not changing the breaks, the mechanic is and she is probably booking the appointment. Building a deck??? Again, probably hired out but if not, you are building it once. You can't compare task that are not done often to the daily job of running a household.



No you don't have to pay her spousal support. That is not how it works. Not in Ontario. Where this board is.

Also - if she takes your child support payment and pays for her nails, what does it matter when she paid the full rent that is over the child's head. I don't see the father paying the landlord. So he owes her money that she already paid out. For example, if the child's part of the rent is 200 and she paid that full 200 and then the father owes the mother 100. Which means she can use 30 of it because she already paid his portion to the landlord. It is not theft. It is using money that you already paid out and were paid back.

Bottomline - women are getting smart and choosing not to be married or have kids. Men are going over seas because they want women who cook and clean and serve them. Because women here are getting smart and not doing it anymore. That is the whole problem. Women are taking care of themselves and not men anymore.

If I had to guess you're coming from a place because you had a bad experience. I can feel it. You think I'm going to hire someone to build a deck? I may not know how to install a kitchen but i sure as hell will demo it to help save on costs.

As for child support payment, I'm assuming both mom and dad see her, so that means a roof and room is required by both parties and not by one. Just because mother has child 70 percent and father has 30 percent the rent challenge is present for all. My rent doesn't get reduced because I only have 30 percent equity. I got raised my a single mother. Father could not win the war againsts cancer. She had three to take care off. Yes everything was calculated. If there was any money left over it went into an account specified to our names. None of it was used on her. After 30 years of practicing this principal that equated to 35,000 for each child. Go figure 100K she saved by penny pinching. And I'm doing the same. It's working out well for my daughter though. If I spend 300.00 less on my daughter this month, it goes into an account for her and I don't use it on myself. It's our job to provide that down payment for them right? I mean that's my perspective as a parent and that's the level expectation I put on myself. Pay now slowly or pay later.

Lastly, chores are only viewed as chores if you hate something. I actually love cleaning, laundry and making my place look like a hotel when you walk through the front door. I'm trying to figure out this study on women doing more work at home? How would anyone know what goes on under my roof? Do your neighbors know what happens under your roof?

The one who makes a higher income will loose more money regardless what body part you have.

( when i divorced i was entitled to my wife's pension. I passed. Keep the change ) If mother couldn't contribute financially to a child don't worry about it. Also, keep the change. I don't need you. If I claimed 50/50 custody but also offered 100 percent child support payment to mother, she would gladly keep that change.

Listen I support a fair relationship between split parties. If you're a father and you're leaving more work for mom, piss off and get off your ass. If you're a mother who's counting down the days of your ex's next raise, get off your ass and work harder. A child is not a source of income and if you cant see parents using their kids for financial gain then I know there's no way to reason with you neverminded meeting down the middle.

 

[that6969]

A healthy relationship where both balance chores and such works a lot better. Unfortunately, I ended up doing the bulk of the stuff while working a full time job and she barely did much eventually including working so I totally understand what quite a few women go through. I've raised my kids at my own place at a fairly young age having 50/50 custody and still paying child support because I made slightly more than her. Not easy especially with Covid happening and stuff, but I'm lucky to make it work out. I feel bad for ladies who deal with boys especially those who don't even work and just waste time playing video games and partying it up often.

 

[Jenesis]

If I had to guess you're coming from a place because you had a bad experience. I can feel it. You think I'm going to hire someone to build a deck? I may not know how to install a kitchen but i sure as hell will demo it to help save on costs.

As for child support payment, I'm assuming both mom and dad see her, so that means a roof and room is required by both parties and not by one. Just because mother has child 70 percent and father has 30 percent the rent challenge is present for all. My rent doesn't get reduced because I only have 30 percent equity. I got raised my a single mother. Father could not win the war againsts cancer. She had three to take care off. Yes everything was calculated. If there was any money left over it went into an account specified to our names. None of it was used on her. After 30 years of practicing this principal that equated to 35,000 for each child. Go figure 100K she saved by penny pinching. And I'm doing the same. It's working out well for my daughter though. If I spend 300.00 less on my daughter this month, it goes into an account for her and I don't use it on myself. It's our job to provide that down payment for them right? I mean that's my perspective as a parent and that's the level expectation I put on myself. Pay now slowly or pay later.

Lastly, chores are only viewed as chores if you hate something. I actually love cleaning, laundry and making my place look like a hotel when you walk through the front door. I'm trying to figure out this study on women doing more work at home? How would anyone know what goes on under my roof? Do your neighbors know what happens under your roof?

The one who makes a higher income will loose more money regardless what body part you have.

( when i divorced i was entitled to my wife's pension. I passed. Keep the change ) If mother couldn't contribute financially to a child don't worry about it. Also, keep the change. I don't need you. If I claimed 50/50 custody but also offered 100 percent child support payment to mother, she would gladly keep that change.

Listen I support a fair relationship between split parties. If you're a father and you're leaving more work for mom, piss off and get off your ass. If you're a mother who's counting down the days of your ex's next raise, get off your ass and work harder. A child is not a source of income and if you cant see parents using their kids for financial gain then I know there's no way to reason with you neverminded meeting down the middle.

I am not interested in going point for point with you. You used the example of a deck, I’m saying a lot of men are not building a deck and if they are, it is once. Not daily like household chores. They are called chores. That is just what they are called. Please don’t start playing word games now.

And a chore is a chore. Period. LOL. Work is work. Period. You may like it but it is what it is. Dishes are a chore. Laundry is a chore.

Maybe using rent was the wrong example. Change rent for food then. If the mother has the kid 26 days a month, she is buying more of the food. If she uses her money to pay your part of the food bill, you owe her that money back. If she takes the money you paid back and uses it on her nails, she is not stealing from the child. I don't know how hard that is to understand.

I had a past relationship but we were not married and had our own places so it doesn't match up. You went through a divorce and I'm not labeling you as hurt by it so please don't try to minimize what I am saying by stating it is coming from a bad experience. Just listen to what women today are saying. I'm taking what they are saying and sharing it. Studies on chores and households is done like any other study. Look at the studies. They usually tell you who the pooled from, how many households, and other demographics.

As for women using kids for income - sure some do. Not all, not half but some - sure. Just like some dads are deadbeat assholes who don’t pay for their kids. So what? Are we just calling out the women here? Is that the issue? Regardless - the law is not gender specific. That was my point. Some men here are trying to make gender specific.

I agree that single is the greatest but when I say it somehow it is wrong. When a guy says it, it's ok? Make it make sense.

 

[wiskey bravo]

A healthy relationship where both balance chores and such works a lot better. Unfortunately, I ended up doing the bulk of the stuff while working a full time job and she barely did much eventually including working so I totally understand what quite a few women go through. I've raised my kids at my own place at a fairly young age having 50/50 custody and still paying child support because I made slightly more than her. Not easy especially with Covid happening and stuff, but I'm lucky to make it work out. I feel bad for ladies who deal with boys especially those who don't even work and just waste time playing video games and partying it up often.

See that's my struggle understanding the system. So if my partner made more that me, we split the child 50/50, why should she pay me extra? It's an even split of time, food, rent, clothing....mortgage bla bla bla. Honestly I am so against's that. Anyways if that was the case with me, and my ex owed me an extra 500.00 per month, I would have those funds placed into a RESP. That's just me.

 

[that6969]

It's annoying, but her and I worked it out without lawyers and stuff. And our divorce was very simple and she didn't get greedy like some people. I bought her portion of the house and put it under my name. We were only married for 5 years and she said she didn't want any alimony which wasn't going to be much anyway. Plus I made extra income on the side to help with the child support which she knew I was making and didn't come after more so I let things be.

I know a guy in a similar situation years ago and his ex wife is a nurse making more than him and he could have got her to pay him some child support, but he chose not to.

 

[Jenesis]

See that's my struggle understanding the system. So if my partner made more that me, we split the child 50/50, why should she pay me extra? It's an even split of time, food, rent, clothing....mortgage bla bla bla. Honestly I am so against's that. Anyways if that was the case with me, and my ex owed me an extra 500.00 per month, I would have those funds placed into a RESP. That's just me.

Because if combined you make 100k, the child is a entitled to that 100k worth of financial care.

The court then divides by child care time and ratio percentage of combined income.

That is what makes it fair for the child. Again, not gender specific. Doesn’t matter the gender of the higher earner or the gender of the parent who had the most time.

That is literally how it is legal calculated.

 

[wiskey bravo]

I am not interested in going point for point with you. You used the example of a deck, I’m saying a lot of men are not building a deck and if they are, it is once. Not daily like household chores.

And a chore is a chore. Period. LOL. Work is work. Period. You may like it but it is what it is. Dishes are a chore. Laundry is a chore.

Maybe using rent was the wrong example. Change rent for food then. If the mother has the kid 26 days a month, she is buying more of the food. If she uses her money to pay your part of the food bill, you owe her thag money back. If she takes the money you paid back and uses it on her nails, she is not stealing from the child. I don't know how hard that is to understand.

I had a past relationship but we were not married and hard our own places so it doesn't match up. You went through a divorce and I'm not labeling you as hurt by it so please don't try to minimize what I am saying by stating it is coming from a bad experience. Just listen to what women today are saying. I'm taking what they are saying and sharing it.

As for women using kids for income - sure some do. Not all not half but some - sure. Just like some dads are deadbeat assholes who don’t pay for their kids. So what? Are we just calling out the women here? Is that the issue? Regardless - the law is not gender specific. That was my point.

I agree that single is the greatest but when I say it somehow it is wrong. When a guy says it, it's ok? Make it make sense.

We can agree to dissagree.

It's annoying, but her and I worked it out without lawyers and stuff. And our divorce was very simple and she didn't get greedy like some people. I bought her portion of the house and put it under my name. We were only married for 5 years and she said she didn't want any alimony which wasn't going to be much anyway. Plus I made extra income on the side to help with the child support which she knew I was making and didn't come after more so I let things be.

I know a guy in a similar situation years ago and his ex wife is a nurse making more than him and he could have got her to pay him some child support, but he chose not to.

You just cannot avoid child support. Maybe you can get away from this temporary but it will be back dated and paid. Your paycheck will be ceased by an agency along with all your accounts and thrown in prison if you don't. You will have to upfront the cost of legal feels which can be re-captured but it sounds like that wont be an issue if you can afford to pay someone for a deck.

Anyways I want to talk more but I want to spend time with my baby girl.

Because if combined you make 100k, the child is a entitled to that 100k worth of financial care.

The court then divides by child care time and ratio percentage of combined income.

That is what makes it fair for the child. Again, not gender specific. Doesn’t matter the gender of the higher earner or the gender of the parent who had the most time.

That is literally how it is legal calculated.

Janesis, I get what you're saying. My whole point here - I would try and do right even if it dis-serviced me. Thats all. I see what the law wants me to do. The guidance book is appreciated but doesn't have to be followed because it can be unfair in one persons eyes. If something works in my favor and I can create a positive I will. I still stand strong on that principal. So if I received an over-payment that I didn't feel was right, I would place that money into her RESP. It will sit good with everyone and who wins? The child. At the end of the day this is all about being fair for all parties. There's too many people I know who make 300,000 and live in basement apartments.

Going to play with my kid.

 

[Y_Diner]

Interesting comment. Lets break this down further.

If women don't need men that means the women is working and she's probably putting in the same working hours as the man. So who's raising the child when both parties are at work? Daycare and it's happening as soon as a child turns 1.5 years old. Kid's are being dropped off as early as 0700am and picked up at 18:00. No parents are present actually and daycare is doing the heavy lifting.

As for the house duties, sure I get my meals made but in todays times I don't know anyone who sits and takes the back seat. Maybe going back 20-30 years ago, however, during those times it was affordable for one person to stay at home. Lets also not forget both parties MUST work and that aspect of life never gets brought up. If you're living in a family size home and the income is coming from one person there's a good chance that individual is not working 9-4. Lot's of friends who make 500K plus, but you're working from 9am to 9pm so yes one person will be doing all the work. But that one person who's at home has a different expectations from the past. I know many women who don't work and expect the following: full time nanny, house cleaner while a child is at school full time. Full time nanny is about 3,500.00 - 4,000.00 net per month. House cleaner 200-300 per month. Daycare 3000.00 net per month. I don't care if you're mom or dad, i care about keeping up with these payments. We haven't even touched house, food, cars, bla bla bla. This added expense to compensate for requires mom, dad or both mom and dad to earn an extra 150,000 - 160,000 gross.

I don't know any man who's allowed their women to do the following.....cut the grass, shoveled the driveway, put winter tires on, changed the breaks, built a deck, finished the basement.....I also don't know any man who doesn't clean, grocery shop and neglect their child. My perspective is from a modern world and this is what I see in todays times with the people in my circle. I do know men that don't change diapers, however, their net worth ranges from 300M to 6 billion. That league of wealth comes with different problems than the ones you and I share.

Generally speaking we all need each other. I can't do this alone. If you're doing it alone - great. You're not getting a trophy and any you won't be viewed any differently. You and I will die and be buried no differently than anyone else. As for life, I know I can raise myself and my child cheaper than as a family.

Lastly, I heard an escort say to me once " i don't need men ". Yes it was said jokingly. And I jokingly responded " i guess you should update you profile to read women only then ".

If this message sounds rough my apologies. It's not meant to be understood that way ". It's hard trying to deliver a message without the physical or verbal touch.

Don’t apologize!
Most to all people HATE hearing hard truths and often deflect or refuse to dispute all points and counter points because they have no ammo in the chamber so to speak, and they know it.