Pro Hamas in the west - and their adventures

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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You're probably right.
I was responding to the comments earlier that they were "doing it wrong" and wouldn't be remembered positively like the earlier protesters.
I wanted to point out that if these protests do end up linked to some shift in policy and are viewed as having accomplished something, then the memory of them will be edited to be positive - just like happened in the past.
I'm not sure they're "doing it wrong", since it seems to be note-for-note a repetition of the 60's protests and an attempt to cosplay the 60's anti war movement.

The difference is that many more students have a dog in the race that is directly opposed to the protestors own opinions - i.e. the Jewish students and their PoV. And there is no draft to make Palestine a gripping domestic issue.

True.
But those things weren't separate.
Opinion changed over time and the protests started long before the population's opinion shifted.
It was all part of many things going on and feeding into each other.

Just look at US opinion towards Israel and Palestine. It isn't where it was 20 years ago.
The protests are part of this back and forth of public opinion.
Not very different than what is going on now.
There are people promising to end the war, there are people promising it would never happen, and there is a wild amount of misinformation about what is going on there.
Part of the transition was the lack of an easy win by the US, when domestic public opinion had been led to believe the mass of the VN population supported the Saigon regime and the US intervention. That led to a pendulum effect where Hanoi was then presented as "the real VN patriots".

Everything cartoonishly over-simplified of course.
 
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Klatuu

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I think the protests you mention including the Vietnam War are/were close to home. The causes noted impacted Americans directly. I don't see the protests creating more real empathy for the Palestinians and by virtue the Hamas leadership.

Other than my most progressive friends, most of them who want to see a cease fire just are tired of 75 years of fighting and fruitless peace discussions. This seems a way to put things on the back burner and avoid more carnage and destruction for the time being. I'm not even sure the protesters have any workable solutions in mind for Palestine beyond a cease fire.

As a separate note, I am not a historian but we know the Germans and Japanese were decimated. They came back with much assistance from the West to build great economies and successful democracies. Does anyone really see the Palestinians grabbing that olive branch and also Western and Mideastern assistance to build a thriving country? It would appear the Palestinians are more excited to get a box of missiles from Iran.
Poorly educated
 
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Klatuu

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I'm not sure they're "doing it wrong", since it seems to be note-for-note a repetition of the 60's protests and an attempt to cosplay the 60's anti war movement.

The difference is that many more students have a dog in the race that is directly opposed to the protestors own opinions - i.e. the Jewish students and their PoV. And there is no draft to make Palestine a gripping domestic issue.



Part of the transition was the lack of an easy win by the US, when domestic public opinion had been led to believe the mass of the VN population supported the Saigon regime and the US intervention. That led to a pendulum effect where Hanoi was then presented as "the real VN patriots".

Everything cartoonishly over-simplified of course.
Life in the echo chamber
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I'm not sure they're "doing it wrong", since it seems to be note-for-note a repetition of the 60's protests and an attempt to cosplay the 60's anti war movement.

The difference is that many more students have a dog in the race that is directly opposed to the protestors own opinions - i.e. the Jewish students and their PoV. And there is no draft to make Palestine a gripping domestic issue.
That the situation is very different domestically (both the general environment of the 60s and the fact there isn't a draft sending these people to actually fight in a war) does mean I am suspicious of anyone drawing 1:1 parallels, I agree.


Part of the transition was the lack of an easy win by the US.
This is a recurring issue.
Lots of people who were "against the endless wars" in Afghanistan and Iraq were actually against "not winning easily".
In 68, Wallace was saying either he would win in 90 days (something short) or pull out.
 
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mandrill

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Apparently Greta joined Hamas supporters.

Got to keep those donations flowing in.

Nice to have a new angle to grift every so often!
 

mandrill

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Klatuu

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Seems a little unfair to take the crowd's anger out on a 20 year old performer, don't you think?
Not in the least. That POS is an ambassador of genocide, apartheid and ethnic cleansing. She doesn’t have an ounce of integrity in her. Play the victim somewhere else…it comes too easily to you.
 
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shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
Sure. Pro-Israeli positions are welcome and can be debated. Pro-genocide propaganda, that amount to dehumanizing Palestinians are not.
Pro terrorist attacks like that of Oct.7 in efforts to wipe out Jews from the river to the sea are not welcome and not debatable. Denial of Hamas wishing to destroy all Jews are not debatable. Denial of Hamas committing rape on Oct.7 is not debatable. False claims of Israel committing genocide that amount to demonizing Israel are not debatable.
 
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