Poll: Who gets your vote
- Thread starter K Douglas
- Start date
Would have, Could have does not contradict the fact that you were the first one to state that Amsterdam has a lower population density than Toronto, and then posted a link to dispute it!!
Hundreds of thousands use it on a daily basis. That's not "under utilized". That's using it for the intended purpose.
Maybe if there wasn't perpetual construction on the 401 it would move along faster. Maybe if the 401 was designed with less bottlenecks it would move along faster.
That doesn't mean the 407ETR is under utilized...it means the 401 has a lot of issues.
The bike lanes would work better if there is less of a population and fewer cars on the streets. The fact is that more residents use the Public Transport in cities like Amsterdam and London.
In fact in London they even charge a daily toll for driving into their city centres with cars. Of course bicycles do not incur such charges. London like Amsterdam has a much better transport system and you do not need a cart travel back and forth from the city centre!!
The link I posted didn't dispute it...I'm the one who showed you the population densities.
Why would I dispute it?
You didn't provide anything.
Those cities were built, designed and evolved into what they are long before Toronto. Toronto developed into what it is now. You can't just try and mimic other cities that are different in nature. That's the problem with our council who take free trips abroad to "study" places that are different and then try and make changes in Toronto that obviously don't work.
If the 401 has Express as well as collector lanes that are a bottle neck while 407ETR has far fewer lanes, what does that tell you?
The 407ETR barely has any cars outside of the rush hours, while the 401 keeps on running at snails pace in the vicinity of Yonge Street and Uptown.
But I showed you the facts that you just cannot accept!!
You showed the population densities which contradicted what you stated to Frankfooter in the first place!!
Today's news, 23% of Canadians experienced food insecurity in 2022.
This must be a success for capitalism as it will drive down labour rates by making people desperate for work, correct?
The Rebel says it this way, food banks are communism so must be cut.
This must be a success for capitalism as it will drive down labour rates by making people desperate for work, correct?
The Rebel says it this way, food banks are communism so must be cut.
I don't see many cyclists coming in from within the borders of the city to downtown yet bike lanes are there and only serve a select few yet take away lanes for vehicles.
Useless.
It tells me the 401 is flawed and continual construction to fix those flaws causes congestion. Usage of the 407ETR has increased year over year.
If you are not afraid of facts, you should read this study.
The use of Highway 407 ETR has steadily increased since 1999, and the highway averaged 413,000 weekday trips in 2017. This represents 50% more trips on the average weekday than on the GO Transit system’s entire network (buses and trains) (Metrolinx, 2018). The total vehicle kilometres travelled (VKT) on Highway 407 ETR in 2017 amounted to 2.6 billion
https://beta.cancea.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Economic-Impacts-of-Highway-407-ETR.pdf
Its very entertaining that you use a trip counter to discuss the 407 vs GO.
How many people do you think are on each GO train that counts as 1 trip on that stat, skoob?
Listen skoobie, that is a flawed Statistic of yours. There is a sizeable population who live North of the City and outside of the GTA that have to travel say from the East End to The Brampton or The Airport Area. It makes zero sense to go South just to catch the Go Train to Union Station and then The Subway all the way to Brampton. To Union station from Oshawa will take you almost an hour!!
Now looking at that Chart of the growth of Personal vs Business Travel Figure 4. Personal travel is just around less than 20% growth from 2003 to 2017.
On the other hand the Business travel has grown by close to 90%. Moreover, a number of personal travels are reimbursed by businesses. The 407ETR though paid by the taxpayers once again is designated to serve mainly the elitists and the businesses. Most middle class families avoid it unless it is essential or critical!!
What argument are trying to distract with now?
My argument is that the 407ETR is not under-utilized.
Oh right...it's a highway outside of downtown Toronto that doesn't exist. Gotcha.
Why would you make such a stupid argument?
Oh right, because otherwise you'd have to admit the NDP have a smart idea.
According to your pal Frankfooter, what happens outside of downtown Toronto doesn't matter and doesn't really count. So you should chat with him about that.
If it wasn't for businesses, you wouldn't have taxpayers. I wouldn't call business owners elitists. I would call them providers.
The topic was about your comment that the 407ETR is "under-utilized". The data says otherwise.
You want to talk about businesses and travel expenses...start another thread.
Well, should we listen to your opinion or should we listen to a group that did actual research and understand the issues?
Such a tough choice.
A new report has been released entitled The Freight Escape: How to Get Trucks Off the 401 Without Blowing a Hole in the Greenbelt.
This report was commissioned by Environmental Defence with input from Transport Action Ontario and you can access this report here.
The report finds that subsidizing the toll on the 407 ETR is cheaper, easier, and better for the trucking industry than building the proposed Highway 413. It also shows that moving trucks from Highway 401 to the 407 will alleviate congestion for all road users and reduce journey times for truck drivers. This would also make building the proposed Highway 413 unnecessary, save taxpayers at least $6 billion (based on 2018 estimates), and conserve valuable natural spaces including 2000 acres of farmland and 400 acres of Greenbelt.
The Freight Escape report finds that moving trucks to the 407 will:
- Move 12,000 to 21,000 trucks a day off Highway 401, reducing daily traffic for passenger vehicles
- Cost $6 billion less than constructing the proposed Highway 413. Subsidizing the 407 trucking toll is estimated to cost $4 billion, which would be paid over a 30 year period. The Ontario government has not revealed a cost estimate for building Highway 413, but estimates cited in the media are as high as $10 billion
- Reduce cost and journey time for truck drivers: using Highway 407 will improve journey times for truckers by approximately 80 minutes, which would be less than half the length of time than the equivalent trip on Highway 401
- Conserve local natural spaces and local food production – including 2000 acres of farmland and 400 acres of Greenbelt land that would be paved by Highway 413.
Yes, it identifies where the stupidity in this argument lies.
And its not with the party that researched the issue and came up with a detailed plan.
