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blackrock13

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What is it about Yes you do not understand, my friend?
Oh, the 'yes' was to that question and not the repsonse to the 28% support for separation. You do like to be cryptic/obtuse on occasion. You must have been a real mover and shaker for your company coming here after you stint in South Africa. Did they realized you had your fingers crossed at your swearing in as a citizen?

The support for separation has almost been cut in half in Quebec and has had little support from Francophone outside Quebec, in the 25% range. It's a moribund horse the old guard keep digging out every so often.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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Oh, the 'yes' was to that question and not the repsonse to the 28% support for separation. You do like to be cryptic/obtuse on occasion. You must have been a real mover and shaker for your company coming here after you stint in South Africa. Did they realized you had your fingers crossed at your swearing in as a citizen?
Correct, that was right after I worked for Xenu on the planet of Teegeeack.
 

fuji

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It's really not that simple, what do you do about other nations within Quebec like the first nations...what do you do if the greater Montreal Region decides it wants to stay in Canada? Those are just a small part of the issues. Then there is the debt, usage of the Canadian dollar etc etc. On the plus side the Quebec peso will be in the toilet and we would be able to go and bang Quebec hookers for $25.. lol
Quebec may opt for a monetary and trade union with Canada with a shared currency a'la the Euro zone. First nations already claim to be sovereign so no change for them. As for Montreal, if Quebec separates it would be up to them to figure out such questions internally.
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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Quebec may opt for a monetary and trade union with Canada with a shared currency a'la the Euro zone. First nations already claim to be sovereign so no change for them. As for Montreal, if Quebec separates it would be up to them to figure out such questions internally.
Why should the rest of Canada agree? Further, you ignore the entire issue of Nouveau-Québec, do you believe Québec is truly viable without the James Bay project for instance?
 

blackrock13

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Why should the rest of Canada agree? Further, you ignore the entire issue of Nouveau-Québec, do you believe Québec is truly viable without the James Bay project for instance?
The last time Quebec said they want out they did so, but indicated they wanted to use the Canadian currency, military and dual passports. They were quickly shown the door.
 

danmand

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Nov 28, 2003
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Why should the rest of Canada agree? Further, you ignore the entire issue of Nouveau-Québec, do you believe Québec is truly viable without the James Bay project for instance?
Out of common decency. Surely, if there were good faith on both sides, serious negotiations would be able to create a workable solution, where the independent Quebec could use a Canadian union currency, military and passports.

I think it is fair to characterize quebecers as seperate peoples, that deserve self determination just like all other seperate peoples.
 

blackrock13

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slowpoke

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Oct 22, 2004
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If only 28% of Quebecers support separation, it would appear more than anglophones are against it. I like to know if you were living in Canada during the two referendums and experienced the drama and trauma they brought.
We had just purchased a house and the closing date was October 30, 1995 (the date of the last referendum). Normally, we'd have chosen a mortgage term of 6 months to 1 year but we opted for a 5 year fixed rate mortgage (at a higher rate) in case Quebec voted to separate. We reckoned that credit / banking might get pretty crazy for a few years following a "yes" vote and we wanted to be locked in long enough for things to settle down before we had to renew again. It turned out to be an unnecessary precaution but that 1995 vote seemed far to close for comfort and there was no way to predict how it would play out in the rest of the country if Quebec opted out.

My main concerns are about how we would share Canada's debt with a separated Quebec and how we would maintain reasonable access to Atlantic Canada. The new country of Quebec would not necessarily be very stable or successful and the terms of the separation would probably be much harsher than the separatist expect. It's hard to see much in the way of mutual accomodation or harmonious co-existence, even if the half of Quebec owned by aboriginals chose to remain in Canada. Fortunately, the threat of separation is much less than it was last time so let them have another referendum and get it over with.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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...

My main concerns are about how we would share Canada's debt with a separated Quebec and how we would maintain reasonable access to Atlantic Canada. ....
My main concern is why we keep considering this when the majority of Quebecois don't want it.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Quebec may opt for a monetary and trade union with Canada with a shared currency a'la the Euro zone. First nations already claim to be sovereign so no change for them. As for Montreal, if Quebec separates it would be up to them to figure out such questions internally.
A shared currency?

How convenient.

Even if the Bank of Canada went along with that, Quebec would cease to have any say in Federal affairs and as a result, they would cease to have any say in Canada's monetary policy. (Quebec is currently over represented in both Parliament and the Federal Government.)

Basically, Quebec would be along for the ride - but with no say, no pull, and definitely no more Equalization Payments and a bottomless pit of federal goodies.

So it begs the question - why would Quebec want to use the Canadian Dollar?

If Quebec decided to mint its own Dinars, it would be worth about a Dinar since Quebec has a GDP less than that of Nigeria and a debt worse than Greece.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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As a guy who lives in Toronto, but works for a company based in Quebec for the last 12 years, I'm in Montreal and the rest of the province at least half of the year. As such, I have a unique opportunity to observe the politics and culture first hand.

I have often joked (but with a tinge of reality) that they should rename University Avenue in Toronto "Rene Levesque Street" because he built it. Seriously. Levesque and his policies of discrimination destroyed Montreal. When I was a kid growing up in Hamilton, Montreal was always THEE Number One City in Canada. I'd ask questions about Canada and my parents would always tell me that "Montreal was the biggest city in Canada", etc. etc. I remember it seemed impossible that Toronto would ever catch up with Monteal. Montreal was this mythical place where the action was. Now? Montreal will never, ever catch up with Toronto.

In fact, I don't think the population of Montreal has recovered to where it was in 1976.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Montreal

The separatist policies of Levesque drove hundreds of thousands of people down the 401 to Toronto. They brought with them their talent, their skills, their know-how. They came to a welcoming city, a city where they could put a sign up in Chinese, or Greek, or Arabic. No-one cared.

Having watched the dynamic between Montreal and the rest of Quebec, I must say that Montreal is its own animal. It is not like the rest of the province and I have witnessed how Quebec city people (for example) make a lot of disparaging remarks and statements about people in Montreal. People in Montreal are laid back, more tolerant of the Anglo / Franco thing. Montreal is a fairly cosmopolitan town. This is exactly what the Separtists despise. The Separatists don't want Anglos and Francos getting along like they do in Montreal. I swear to God, Levesque and his buddies were thrilled when half the city packed up and moved to Toronto. It got rid of the guys who would never vote for them and never vote for an independent Quebec. In short, Levesque deliberately enacted policies he knew would destroy Montreal, but he didn't care. He gutted Montreal in order to bring his dream to reality. (The end (an independent Quebec) justified the means and the result (driving hundreds of thousands of people out and destroying the city).

How any Montrealer could possibly hope for separatism is beyond me.

Just look at real estate values in Toronto vs. Montreal. Toronto's real estate prices have increased dramatically since 1997 (whether that is a good thing is a topic for another thread). Montreal? Not so much. Definitely no comparison to Toronto, or Calgary, or Vancouver. Part of the reason is that immigrants from all over the world want to come to Toronto and Vancouver and Calgary. They really would rather not settle in Montreal unless they are francophones. No immigrant play = less increase in property prices.

Another referendum? Look out below. I just don't understand how anything postivie could come out of separation for the average Quebecer. The only people who will bennefit from separation in Quebec are the likes of Pauline Marois and her ilk. They will NEVER be Prime Minister of Canada, but maybe they can be Prime Minister of an Independent Quebec.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
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I think we English are fed up with the threat of separation which is used as a bargaining chip. This time we will just keep quiet and let them play out their drama. We don't need to kiss their asses any longer. I say this as a lover of Quebec and its' people. I'm even a Habs fan. .... but the whining and bickering and racism is becoming tiresome and it is perhaps time for them to make up their minds : are they a part of Canada or are they going it alone? Bon chance.
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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The new country of Quebec would not necessarily be very stable or successful and the terms of the separation would probably be much harsher than the separatist expect.
The Separatists also seem to have a highly unrealistic view of how the U.S. would react to a group of "up yours" Francophones wanting to have some sort of close monetary relationship with the U.S.A.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
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As a guy who lives in Toronto, but works for a company based in Quebec for the last 12 years, I'm in Montreal and the rest of the province at least half of the year. As such, I have a unique opportunity to observe the politics and culture first hand.

I have often joked (but with a tinge of reality) that they should rename University Avenue in Toronto "Rene Levesque Street" because he built it. Seriously. Levesque and his policies of discrimination destroyed Montreal. When I was a kid growing up in Hamilton, Montreal was always THEE Number One City in Canada. I'd ask questions about Canada and my parents would always tell me that "Montreal was the biggest city in Canada", etc. etc. I remember it seemed impossible that Toronto would ever catch up with Monteal. Montreal was this mythical place where the action was. Now? Montreal will never, ever catch up with Toronto.

In fact, I don't think the population of Montreal has recovered to where it was in 1976.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Montreal

The separatist policies of Levesque drove hundreds of thousands of people down the 401 to Toronto. They brought with them their talent, their skills, their know-how. They came to a welcoming city, a city where they could put a sign up in Chinese, or Greek, or Arabic. No-one cared.

Having watched the dynamic between Montreal and the rest of Quebec, I must say that Montreal is its own animal. It is not like the rest of the province and I have witnessed how Quebec city people (for example) make a lot of disparaging remarks and statements about people in Montreal. People in Montreal are laid back, more tolerant of the Anglo / Franco thing. Montreal is a fairly cosmopolitan town. This is exactly what the Separtists despise. The Separatists don't want Anglos and Francos getting along like they do in Montreal. I swear to God, Levesque and his buddies were thrilled when half the city packed up and moved to Toronto. It got rid of the guys who would never vote for them and never vote for an independent Quebec. In short, Levesque deliberately enacted policies he knew would destroy Montreal, but he didn't care. He gutted Montreal in order to bring his dream to reality. (The end (an independent Quebec) justified the means and the result (driving hundreds of thousands of people out and destroying the city).

How any Montrealer could possibly hope for separatism is beyond me.

Just look at real estate values in Toronto vs. Montreal. Toronto's real estate prices have increased dramatically since 1997 (whether that is a good thing is a topic for another thread). Montreal? Not so much. Definitely no comparison to Toronto, or Calgary, or Vancouver. Part of the reason is that immigrants from all over the world want to come to Toronto and Vancouver and Calgary. They really would rather not settle in Montreal unless they are francophones. No immigrant play = less increase in property prices.

Another referendum? Look out below. I just don't understand how anything postivie could come out of separation for the average Quebecer. The only people who will bennefit from separation in Quebec are the likes of Pauline Marois and her ilk. They will NEVER be Prime Minister of Canada, but maybe they can be Prime Minister of an Independent Quebec.
As someone who has also spent time in both Montreal and Quebec City, excellent, excellent post!
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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Why should the rest of Canada agree? Further, you ignore the entire issue of Nouveau-Québec, do you believe Québec is truly viable without the James Bay project for instance?
It's the modern incarnation of Quebec that would vote to leave. The history is interesting, but irrelevant. All the people in the entire province have a right to self determination, and the province is the recognized political unit through which they express it.
 

Aardvark154

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It's the modern incarnation of Quebec that would vote to leave. The history is interesting, but irrelevant.
How so? If the Federal Government gives something to Québec in the expectation that Québec will remain a constituent part of Canada, why if Québec should decide to leave confederation should the Canada not say fine but Nouveau-Québec as part of Rupert's Land goes with us?

The legal basis for your argument is?
 

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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How so? If the Federal Government gives something to Québec in the expectation that Québec will remain a constituent part of Canada, why if Québec should decide to leave confederation should the Canada not say fine but Nouveau-Québec as part of Rupert's Land goes with us?

The legal basis for your argument is?
Because it is the living people who have a right to self determination. The modern borders of Quebec defines the jurisdiction that votes. It doesn't matter how it came to be, it matters that it is the modern construct through which they vote.

The history is interesting, and may inform votes, but rights attach to living people not dead ideas.
 

Aardvark154

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Because it is the living people who have a right to self determination. The modern borders of Quebec defines the jurisdiction that votes. It doesn't matter how it came to be, it matters that it is the modern construct through which they vote.

The history is interesting, and may inform votes, but rights attach to living people not dead ideas.
Once again you ignore any legal basis.

Since when if there is a conditional gift, can Québec attempt to say the gift is not conditional?
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts