O’Toole is out

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
32,643
60,774
113
Where in God's green earth did you come up with the notion that the Tories want to end universal health care.

They would be reduced to 0 seats if they ran on that.
So you don't think opening up the medical system to privatization is a conservative value?
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
6,995
2,481
113
Who is going to beat Ford? Are you voting for Andrea Horvath? Or maybe Delduca?

Conservative monority.

I still think Ford could take the Federal Leadership and run for PM.
If Ford was smart he wouldn't run again provincially, but would set his sights on a Federal seat. Any one of his senior Ministers, as well as handful of outsiders, could more easily persuade provincial Conservative voters that this time won't be a bait and switch. Federal leader is not in the cards. He cannot deliver the GTA, so better to choose a federal leader who can deliver seats elsewhere.

But Ford is not smart. Frankly he's a better campaign manager than politician. Another person, like O'Toole, who overshot his appropriate station.

I won't be voting for Horvath or Delduca under any circumstances. Whatever Ford did wrong, those two morons wanted to do even more wrong. If Ford runs again provincially, I'll be voting for whatever party makes the better case to declare itself the voice of "purple" voters.
 
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Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
6,995
2,481
113
Seems like you have a highly serious and realistic grasp of the situation.
Well, better than yours in any event. You managed to interpret one of my posts completely backwards! Perhaps that's the same way you absorb your observations of the media?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
32,643
60,774
113
Conservative options???

Resurrect Harper. He is still respected by the party as whole.

Pierre P.…. If he runs, he is a master at pointing out flaws of his opponents.

March Peter McKay out again as O’Toole light and go down the same road as before.

O’Leary…. He quit as he said he could not win Quebec. I think someone had dirt on him. “Republican dirty tricks!”

Ford. Yup, I went there.

Who might the dark horses be that emerge, as O’Toole was a huge surprise to me last time. Sloan comes back? Randy Hillier goes Fed?
How long is the leadership campaign?
This just knocked O'Toole out, what are the official rules for replacing him?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
32,643
60,774
113
Well, better than yours in any event. You managed to interpret one of my posts completely backwards! Perhaps that's the same way you absorb your observations of the media?
No.
I was interpreting it the way it actually reads as to most people familiar with reality.
I was hoping you were clear eyed about the strategy.

Doesn't matter.

I await for your reasoned and serious explanation of the Conservative Positions that are so popular if only people would listen.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
6,995
2,481
113
No.
I was interpreting it the way it actually reads as to most people familiar with reality.
I was hoping you were clear eyed about the strategy.

Doesn't matter.

I await for your reasoned and serious explanation of the Conservative Positions that are so popular if only people would listen.
Well, you'll have to await them for another time. I've reached my silliness tolerance limit for this thread. Till next time.
 
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jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,670
6,839
113
I'm speaking more about the extremists within the caucus, but in the end controlling the caucus is essential to controlling the Party. Yes, every leader enforces party discipline - some do it better than others. Harper had the very difficult challenge of trying to enforce discipline on a very diverse caucus. Most people expected the extremists (especially the social conservatives) to be in the ascendance within the Harper government. Remember the scare tactics of "the secret agenda." There was no secret agenda. Harper had a very clear agenda. It wasn't to outlaw abortion; it wasn't to end same sex marriage; it wasn't to be fiscally prudent. His agenda was to weaken the federal government by limiting its scope and returning power to the provinces. You could call him a "constitutionalist." To do that he needed the social conservative/extreme right with him and he handled them brilliantly. Every now and then he'd let them off their leash so to speak, and they'd get to make some outrageous statement in Parliament and everybody on the other side would latch on to it and start to cry about the "secret agenda" but then nothing would happen, so it became more and more obvious that Harper had no secret agenda and people in the centre became less and less afraid of him. End result? Majority government in 2011 after 2 minorities. Harper was a master at holding the diverse interests in the Conservative (or PC) Party together. Diefenbaker couldn't do it. Stanfield couldn't win. Clark got ousted. Mulroney won two big majorities but his time in office also gave us the Reform Party as the PC Party split apart. I was not a big fan of the man but the Conservative Party needs another Stephen Harper at the helm - someone with conservative credentials, who's politically pragmatic, who has a very clear understanding of what his agenda is and who knows how to manage a potentially contentious caucus by giving every enough room but not too much room.
Except for that "extremist " thing I don't disagree with this take. Canada is not really a country, but a lose confederation of independent states. An unfinished experiment in nation building born out of fear in a shotgun wedding of two solitudes. Harper, a true Canadian patriot, understood that better than anyone and ran his government accordingly. I met him a couple of times a while before he even ran and I was extremely impressed with his pragmatism and his sincere belief in the positive and non intrusive role of the federal government. He really took the mantra of peace, order and good government seriously and really believed that balancing the interests of the different regions was totally possible and the only way for the country to prosper and flourish. Ironic that it took the "West wants in" movement to bring such a man to power.
 
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Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
40,130
7,504
113
I think you mean The 1993 Election. Mulroney won a majority in 1988.
The 1993 election was a Roman Decimation. The 1988 Election was extremely nasty, the Conservative got a majority but with far less seats than in 1984. Most of the seats lost were Red Tory seats, critical ones in Toronto. Mulroney promised Quebec Separatists that he would make them first among equals through the Meech Lake Accord...we know how that tuned out.
 

PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
2,132
1,946
113
kingston
Where in God's green earth did you come up with the notion that the Tories want to end universal health care.

They would be reduced to 0 seats if they ran on that.
Maybe the articles over the years saying they wanted to and their plan to privatize health care.
https://canadians.org/analysis/leak-shows-ford-government-plans-privatize-health-care
https://www.ontariohealthcoalition....re-system-to-reduce-covid-19-surgical-backlo/
https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-using-covid-19-crisis-privatize-health-services-ontario-ndp
https://www.rankandfile.ca/ford-government-moving-ahead-with-home-care-privatization-bill/
https://cupe.on.ca/wp-content/uploa...ivatization_home_care_hospital_2020_07_10.pdf
Also the Ford governments budget cut health care funding for covid by 3.25billion in 2021 and by 18 billion over the next 8 years in all facets of health care.
https://cupe.ca/ontario-patients-even-more-risk-under-conservatives-8-year-funding-plan
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
29,337
7,209
113
Trudeau should spend 600 million on another election as soon as possible so he can loose the majority vote and form another minority government.

Sounds like a good plan.
As it turns out it was a wise decision then, according to several pundits, as stuff like inflation and the new Omicron Virus could have had an impact on any ruling Party during an election.
The Liberals now have the mandate to ride out both the Pandemic and Inflation. Once all the economies start to open and the supply chains and production facilities are back up to full capacities then there will be a Government that will be looked on under a positive light battling against an opposition Party in disarray, still trying to retrace it's identity!!
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
17,391
3,057
113
So you don't think opening up the medical system to privatization is a conservative value?
More than willing to listen your suggestions
You tend to be more of an arm chair critic than a problem solver (I am not a fan of that approach)

The undeniable facts of the matter are
1. We have an aging population which will accelerate utilization rates
2. Medical equipment and supply inflation is much higher than cpi inflation
3. The health care infrastructure has been underfunded for decades.- beds per 100,000 population is low relative other developed countries (I read that some where)
4. The moron Trudeau, just spent all of the Federal borrowing capacity
5. The Federal govt, the provinces and the consumer are all levered up to the max..... just before interest rates are going to start to increase

Our current health care system is unsustainable and will cost gab-billions to fix which we do not have and now can not borrow

So again .... More than willing to listen your suggestions
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
29,337
7,209
113
Unlike that "winner" TrueDope who managed to turn a majority into a minority, and then, completely controlling the timing of the next election, another minority (with even less popular vote)? Any decent Conservative leader should have fair odds to beat that sort of "winner".
It was crystal clear that Error The Tool kept on changing his stance throughout the campaign that enraged many in his own party. With the PPC stealing 6% of the votes of the more right leaning voters, the only way that Error had of winning the elections, was to get the more moderate Canadians to being drawn over to his platform of contradictions. We know how that panned out!!
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,806
22,231
113
It was crystal clear that Error The Tool kept on changing his stance throughout the campaign that enraged many in his own party. With the PPC stealing 6% of the votes of the more right leaning voters, the only way that Error had of winning the elections, was to get the more moderate Canadians to being drawn over to his platform of contradictions. We know how that panned out!!
Tamara Lich raised $10 million for the karenkonvy.
That money is waiting for an alt right leader of the cons, one who will massively lose an election.

By the way, Lich has disappeared and gofundme is holding onto the cash.
 

lomotil

Well-known member
Mar 14, 2004
6,553
1,420
113
Oblivion
Anyone here still voting Conservative? It's mind blowing after what they did with Bill C-36.
Bill C-36 inadvertently caused the amount of brothels in the GTA to go way up . Harper prorogued twice and stroke off.
 
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