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No one ever warned you, boy! Rock and Roll is a vicious game!

May 16, 2006
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Malcolm Evans


Fritz96 said:
"Fixing A Hole" - Mal Evans cowrote the song with Paul, but took a one-time payment rather than a songwriting credit. Not plagiarism, because Evans was a willing party to the arrangement, but it sure is weird.
MALCOLM EVANS
Died: 1976
http://www.geocities.com/penneylayne/bio/evans.html
"Often referred to as the 'gentle giant', Evans was working as a bouncer at the Cavern Club when Brian Epstein offered him a job hauling equipment for the Beatles in 1963. He can be seen doing the same job, to Paul's piano accompaniment, during the opening of the film Let It Be (1970). Later in the film, he pounds an anvil to the beat of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer". He also appears briefly in Help! (1965), Magical Mystery Tour (1967) and the 1967 promotional film for Hello, Goodbye.

When the band stopped touring, Evans became a personal assistant and later an Apple executive. He is said to have contributed lyrics to "Fixing A Hole" and also discovered Apple recording artists Badfinger and produced their hit single "No Matter What"."

-------------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixing_a_Hole
"He never received royalties and had to make do with £38-a-week pay. McCartney and the Apple label have not commented about the diaries, or the songwriting credits. Keith Badman, who is the author of "The Beatles Off the Record", stated that he obtained a tape of Evans talking before his death, on which Evans repeated the claims. According to Badman, Evans was asked (before the record came out) if it would be a problem that his name was not credited, as the Lennon-McCartney writing name was "a really hot item."
 
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May 16, 2006
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Two other songs you mentioned.


Fritz96 said:
"Free As A Bird" - when the Threetles revived this 1977 Lennon demo in 1995, they added a middle section. Unfortunately, they added the middle section from the 1964 Shangri-Las hit "Remember
(Walkin' In The Sand)."
Walking In The Sand - The Shangri La's

Seems like the other day My baby went away
He went away 'cross the sea
It's been two years or so Since I saw my baby go
And then this letter came for me
It said that we were through He found somebody new
Oh, let me think, let me think, what can I do?
Oh no, oh no, oh no no no no no
CHORUS: (remember) walkin' in the sand
(remember) walkin' hand in hand
(remember) the night was so exciting
(remember) smile was so inviting
(remember) then he touched my cheek
(remember) with his fingertips
Softly, softly we'd meet with our lips

Whatever happened to
The boy that I once knew?
The boy who said he'd be true
Oh, what will happen to
The life I gave to you?
What will I do with it now?

CHORUS TO FADE

-------------------------------------------------------------

I can't find any lyrics for Free As A Bird by the Threetles.
http://www.bootlegzone.com/album.php?name=peg1001
If you can find the version you mentioned, i would love to see it.

I did find these lyrics by the Beatles.
Free As A Bird -The Beatles
Album: Anthology Volume One


1-Free as a bird
It's the next best thing to be
Free as a bird

2-La, la, la, la
Home and dry
Like a homin' bird I fly
As a bird on wings

Whatever happened to the life that we once knew
Can we really live without each other?
Where did we lose the touch
That seemed to mean so much
It's always made me feel so
(rpt 1, 2)

Whatever happened to
The life that we once knew?
Always made me feel so free
(rpt 1)

Free as a bird
Free as a bird
Free as a bird, oh, oh, oh

Source: CC from the ABC broadcast (Nov. 19)
 
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May 16, 2006
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Two other songs which actually become five songs in total.


Fritz96 said:
"I Feel Fine" - main guitar line borrowed from Bobby Parker's "Watch Your Step."
Hi-ee,

I found a cool youtube clip of The Beatles doing, I Feel Fine.
I selected this clip coz there's no screaming audience in it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KL7Q_VqEQ8M

Here's Bobby Parker doing Watch Your Step.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mJCzjF7MvpM
It seems that John Lennon himself is the narrator in this clip. He says, "...i've used it...or The Beatles have used it in various forms..."

Babe,
xoxo


P.S.
Some one in youtube actually said this about the Bobby Parker youtube clip.
"Wikipedia has this guitar riff as being "very similar" to to one in "The Girl I Love Got Long Black Wavy Hair", played by Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin....this is could't be farther from the truth....there are very small qualities the same, but overall it is quite different.....people will say anything to rip the might Zep..."

Here's the song, The Girl I love Got Long Black Wavy hair by Zeppelin. http://youtube.com/watch?v=iGu5mF-N3Yw
Here's Moby Dick by Zeppelin
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yQGm1jDc_ZI
Actually, to be honest, Zeppelin's The Girl I Love Got Long Black Wavy Hair and Moby Dick both sound A LOT like Bobby Parker's Watch Your Step, a lot more than The Beatles' I Feel Fine does.
I wonder why Zeppelin only included their The Girl I Love Got Long Black Wavy Hair on the BBC Sessions release, which came out so many years later. Was Jimmy doing what he is known for, which is stealing, or what?

It opens up starting like, Moby Dick. So, i guess we can say that the Moby Dick riff was stolen from Bobby Parker because Moby Dick was released on Zep's 2nd album when they were most guilty for stealing.
I am really not surprised that Page did not give Parker any credit on Moby Dick. Giving credit was not Page's ''thing."
The Beatles always gave credit on the cover tunes they did.
This riff is stealing, as Parker never got any credit, i will agree to some extent as far as The Beatles are concerned.

But The Beatles used it in, I Feel Fine, and played it a little more as a song and even put a different spin on the final product, even expanding on it's range of notes they used, and it doesn't sound as bluesy as Parker's intended to be. They did harmony vocals all around it.
To me, the Beatles' love interest for that song was because they were focusing on that amazing first distorted note when the song starts.

Page, in my opinon, went two steps further and made two whole blues songs out if it. One of them became the famous Moby Dick.

I think they are both guilty, actually, The Beatles and Zeppelin. But still, i think Page kept it very close to Parker's original blues riff.

Here is another song mentioned in the clip of Bobby Parker.
What'd I say - Ray Charles
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jOBuCDf2nao
So, maybe Parker stole it from Ray Charles, lol.
What a frikken Merry Go 'Round this is, eh? LOL My GAWD!!! :eek:

So, The Beatles, AND Jimmy Page LOL rip off Bobby Parker's version of a ripped off Ray Charles riff that Ray Charles wrote in 1959. Bobby Parker wrote his song in 1961. Zeppelin did their songs using this riff in 1969

Page's rip off sounds much like the "Willie Dixon scenario" where Page ripped off Dixon by ripping off The Small Faces' version of Dixon's song.
ROCK ROCK IS A VICIOUS GAME! Ain' it?

Fritz96, I really say "thanks to you" for pointing this out.
 
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May 16, 2006
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Show me, please?

Fritz96 said:
Actually, the rumour is that Page asked if he could borrow the opening chord for Stairway to Heaven.
Hi-ee again Fritz,

Actually the article says this, and i quote:

"...But it is that holiest of Holy Grails, "Stairway To Heaven," that will shock the faithful. On one of Led Zeppelin's early tours, they had opened for the California art-rock group, Spirit. In the liner notes to the reissue of Spirit's 1968 eponymous debut, the band's guitarist Randy California mentions the fact that Jimmy Page took special interest in an original entitled "Taurus." There is no doubt that Page appropriated the opening guitar lines note for note on "Stairway To Heaven."
Further, the chord progression in "Stairway To Heaven" is incredibly similar to a song by the Chocolate Watch Band, "And She's Lonely." The Yardbirds played with the Chocolate Watch Band during Page's tenure. It would be quite ironic if he did indeed lift the chords from the Chocolate Watch Band. The Chocolate Watch Band, to those in the know, was the ultimate Yardbirds clone. Wouldn't it be fitting that a former Yardbirds guitarist ripped off something from a band that based an entire career around sounding like that famed quintet?..."
(The Yardbyrds is the famed quintet referred to.)

I would really like to see where you found the rumour that you mentioned.
I am allowing anyone to talk me out of this. I am willing to listen to, or read proof. I will investigate your claims, though.

Thanks,
Babe,
xoxo
 
May 16, 2006
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Hmm!

Hi-ee,

I did some looking around the net and i found some sites for The Chocolate Watchband to see if i could here the song mentioned. Only 30 seconds of the song "And She's Lonely" was available. The little bit i heard was hard to distinguish because with my slow connection, the 30 sec clip played in spurts.
What little bit i heard, though, it did NOT sound like Stairway To Heaven. Then again it was only 30 seconds, and it was interrupted music. I'll keep trying.

Another site, www.allmusic.com , says The Chocolate Watchband was very much modeled after The Rolling Stones. I'll keep looking for that, too.

xo
 
May 16, 2006
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Jimmy blames Robert.

Hi-ee,

This link shows even more info.
Jimmy Page lays the blame on Robert Plant.
http://www.turnmeondeadman.net/Zep/Originals.php#RootsOfLedZep
They also show all of Zeps early influences in album form, using the original artists' songs.

They actually list on this next page, a song by Sleepy John Estes called, "The Girl I Love, She Got Long Curly Hair" as the influence of Zep's song of the same name, and also as the origins of Moby Dick.
This is the link talking about Moby Dick.
http://www.turnmeondeadman.net/Zep/MobyDick.php

Cool stuff, really!

Enjoy!
Babe,
xoxo
 
May 16, 2006
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Dazed and Confused by WHO on youtube.com? Jake Holmes??

Hi-ee,

Here's a cool link for Zep fans!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin
Sorry to find more lol, but i did.

I'll just put the link and let you read it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin#Allegations_of_plagiarism
It seems that even Your Time Is Gonna Come was ripped off. And other songs are even mentioned, too.

Especially howJake Holmes wrote, Dazed and Confused.
Page and other Yardbyrds members reworked in the Yardbyrds. It also says that Page reworked the song again for Zeppelin.
And Jake Holmes has complained.

Dazed and Confused by Jake Holmes
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HhTU-fFqBWA
This song is so amazing!!! Listen to it! It even has the long middle part!
You might want to record this as it's only been on line only for a month, and has only been viewed 27 times so far.

Dazed and Confused by Led Zeppelin
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QWg001w6hAU

Babe,
xoxo
 
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Smash

Active member
Apr 20, 2005
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T Dot
Don't know if it was already mentioned above but a few years back Led Zep was accused of ripping off Chuck Berry songs. I think they were actually sued over this?:eek:
 

trisket

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Apr 21, 2007
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Page is slowly being made to pay royalties to those he stole from. These ripoffs were pointed out a few decades ago and it took awhile for him to acknowledge the thefts.
I think the "Dazed And Confused" steal from Jake Holmes is still in the process of being settled, that's the guy he also borrowed the violin bowing technique from.

However, I'd guess he also turned on a lot of people to those forgotten blues artists and revitalized some careers. Too bad he didn't give them proper credit at the time like the Stones went out of their way to do.
 
May 16, 2006
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Yes and no.

trisket said:
However, I'd guess he also turned on a lot of people to those forgotten blues artists and revitalized some careers.
I agree with everything you said except what i quoted. I wish he would have turned people on to the artists' music he was using.


Cool!

Babe,
xo
 
May 16, 2006
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Who?

Randy California:
Age 45
Spirit

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ogTFdlbup24
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l5vzjyC0Mx4&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4kknbg7xquQ (nice hendrix solo feel)


Guitarist/singer/songwriter Randy California (b. Randy Wolfe, 20 Feb. 1951, Los Angeles, d. 2 January 1997) is best known as the leader of Spirit, although he occasionally has made solo albums.

A guitar prodigy, California played in Jimi Hendrix's pre-Experience group the Blue Flames in New York's Greenwich Village in the summer of 1966. It was Hendrix who named him Randy "California."
Spirit, an eclectic band with rock, jazz, and folk tendencies, was formed in Los Angeles in 1967. After four albums, the original quintet split up in 1971. He rejoined Spirit in 1974 and has led the band ever since. (Spirit charted with ten albums between 1968 and 1976.) Several subsequent Randy California solo albums have been released in Europe.

Randy California died tragically in January of 1997, when he was gripped by an undertow when swimming on the coast of the Hawaiian island of Molokai. Before he died, he was able to save his 12 year-old son, Quinn.

~ William Ruhlmann, All-Music Guide

-----------------------------------------------------

http://www.randycaliforniaandspirit.com/biography.html
 

twobigo

New member
Oct 22, 2002
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The greatest strength of the Stones was covering , blues and soul tunes..when they stated to write and record their own songs, i quickly lost interest in them....Led Zeppelin?...one of the most overated bands in history..if i have to listen to Dazed and Confused once more on Q107. i will vomit.....
 

dax

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If somebody tells me the Animals didn't write House of the Rising Sun I'm gonna scream.
 
May 16, 2006
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House Of The Rising Sun

dax said:
If somebody tells me the Animals didn't write House of the Rising Sun I'm gonna scream.
Hi-ee Dax,

Let's hope The Animals gave credit to the original composers for the lyrics.

House of the Rising Sun
As recorded by The Animals.
Says it was written by Alan Price, the keyboard player in The Animals.


There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God I know I'm one

My mother was a tailor
She sewed my new bluejeans
My father was a gamblin' man
Down in New Orleans

Now the only thing a gambler needs
Is a suitcase and trunk
And the only time he's satisfied
Is when he's on a drunk

Oh mother tell your children
Not to do what I have done
Spend your lives in sin and misery
In the House of the Rising Sun

Well, I got one foot on the platform
The other foot on the train
I'm goin' back to New Orleans
To wear that ball and chain

Well, there is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God I know I'm one

----------------------------------------------------------------------

But the traditional version of the lyrics are written by:
Georgia Turner and Bert Martin.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun.
It's been the ruin of many a poor girl,
and me, O God, for one.

If I had listened what Mamma said,
I'd 'a' been at home today.
Being so young and foolish, poor boy,
let a rambler lead me astray.

Go tell my baby sister
never do like I have done
to shun that house in New Orleans
they call the Rising Sun.

My mother she's a tailor;
she sewed my new blue jeans.
My sweetheart, he's a drunkard, Lord, Lord,
drinks down in New Orleans.

The only thing a drunkard needs
is a suitcase and a trunk.
The only time he's satisfied
is when he's out on a drunk.

Fills his glasses to the brim,
passes them around
only pleasure he gets out of life
is hoboin' from town to town.

One foot is on the platform
and the other one on the train.
I'm going back to New Orleans
to wear that ball and chain.

Going back to New Orleans,
my race is almost run.
Going back to spend the rest of my days
beneath that Rising Sun.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

So i guess it's safe to say that Alan Price walked away with the credits for this one.

Babe,
xoxo
 

Neverenuff$

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Sep 10, 2003
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Whereever I am now
The house(s) of the rising sun are being written and updated daily on TERB
 
May 16, 2006
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Public Domain

Strongbeau said:
The Animals did no wrong.

The original lyrics of the "House of the Rising Sun" are Public domain, and predate the lyrics attributed to Georgia Turner and Bert Martin. The music (main melody) is public domain as well. The original composer of the music and lyrics is unknown, all identification so far has been speculative, thus no attribution is necessary.

What is claimed by Alan Price and the Animals is the new musical and vocal arrangement and new lyrics to a public domain melody which are separately copyrightable in their own right.
Hi-ee Strongbeau,

From what i know, even public domain material has to be credited as "Public Domain". I think! I might be wrong, though.

However, i know of someone who used a nursey ryhme melody incorporated into his song and he had to mark, the "name of the nursery rhyme" and refer to it as a sample, even though it was played on a guitar as a guitar solo within his song, and he had to include "Public Domain".
That is according to SOCAN's performing rights "law"! When it comes to a copyright, though, it's a different story, it seems.

If people were allowed to just use public domain like that, i could mark my name down as the composer to Beethoven's 9th, couldn't i?

Babe,
xoxo
 
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