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No one ever warned you, boy! Rock and Roll is a vicious game!

May 16, 2006
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Hi-ee everyone,

I came across this article one day and it really cleared up some things for me about Jimmy Page, the guitarist for the once mighty Led Zeppelin.
I've only heard bits and pieces of all this in the past, and i sort of wanted to disbelieve the rumours as i was a huge Zep fan for a while.
But now, i read the words for myself in this article, which explains how most of Zep's earliest, biggest selling and ground breaking songs which thrusted them into fame and fortune, were actually ripoffs.

I am not sure how many of you are guitarists, or how many of you like reading about the history of some famous rock bands, but this article is a must read. Turns out Jimmy Page was one of rock's biggest SHILLS, and one of the biggest thieves to plug in a guitar.

I've always wondered why Jimmy Page's name is never really listed in guitar magazines as a blues innovator. He never gets his name printed alongside the blues/rock guitar greats, such as Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Duane Allman or Johnny Winter to name only a few. Every wonder why?
Hmm! Well let's find out, shall we?!

In many passed articles/interviews of/with Jimmy, he always claimed how he never liked how people would refer to him and Zep as one of heavy metal's founders, always preferring to be considered by others as a blues guitarist and a blues band.
Oddly enough, he's never listed as a blues man. Reading this very informative article might help to clear this up for many who still worship the thieving magpie.
Of course we all know about his being sued for not giving any credit to such blues icons, as Willie Dixon, whose songs he basically stole, as well as, from many others. But the list gets even longer, including songs such as, Communication Breakdown, Tangerine, Black Mountainside and even the biggest selling and most requested song in history, Stairway To Heaven. THAT, too? My Gawd!!

I used to really like the guitar solo in the song, "How Many More Times" (which is another shameless ripoff of a another great blues icon) from Zep's
1st album, but to actually steal the guitar solo for that song, "note for note" only played much slower, from his long time buddy, Jeff Beck from the Yardbyrds' song, Shapes Of Things is just visciously cruel, totally beyond comprehension. Even going as far as stealing other solos from Jeff Beck, and others.
There are many notable Jimmy Page ripoffs explained in this eye opening article. Just goes to show you, just how viscious "the rock and roll game" can really be.

Read the article, well, http://www.furious.com/PERFECT/yardbirds2.html before arguing that Jimmy is a great songwriter. Granted, he does play a mean guitar, a rather sloppy one while playing live, to say the least. Granted also, he has made some major innovations in the recording studio as far as recording techniques go. I won't take that away from him seeing as he was one of England's most sought out session guitarists in the 60's, playing on everyone's songs including, Joe Cocker, Tom Jones, The Kinks, The Who and Donovan as well as countless others.
He was there, for sure, but only as a session guitarist. Having had spent that much time in recording studios, he was bound to learn a few innovative tricks along the way.
But Songwriting? HIM, a songwriter? Well, maybe once he figured out how to actually write his own songs, and only much later in his career, maybe we can say that he can write a song or two. But you know?...they never really seemed to break any ground, did they? He seems to really need Robert Plant's voice to get a gig or sell any records these days if only to relive all of the passed..."glory".


Shame on you, Jimmy Page. Shame! Shame! Shame on you!
Not cool!
 
May 16, 2006
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Proof!

Knowing That I'm Losing You by the Yardbyrds (Before Led Zep)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fPh1r32TCMY

I never knew that by simply changing some of the lyrics around contained in a song, and then renaming it (to Tangerine), but still keeping the same arrangement meant that you can call the song your own, many years later, and taking full credit!
Jimmy Page did that.


Shame on you!
 
May 16, 2006
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Proof!

Here is a compilation of some Led Zep rip offs!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HjPAEPFaxoM&feature=related

Hi-ee everyone,

I just, personally, and very strongly believe for Page to not include the peoples' names of the music he stole from them is unforgivable. The music business doesn't work like that - even if you rewrite a song, borrow a bass line, a guitar into, or even use someone else's lyrics or even a melody that was created by another, you're supposed to give credit to where those ideas came from. There would never have been one great song without the obscure other one that no one knew about. It's just wrong!

I used to be a HUGE Zep fan, i still like some of their own songs, even if i now wonder how many of them are truly original ideas coming from Page's head.
He robbed many people of their royalties by not ever giving them any credit for their musical ideas. He appeared like some sort of musical master because of it. Can he be really trusted as a songwriter after reading and hearing all these songs he stole and put his name down as composer?

I am sure Zep can still put on a great show that is full of great memories of being in the day, no doubt! Page is still a great guitar player. Robert Plant can't reach those high notes any more and hasn't been able to for many years - that's normal and forgivable - we can't blame a great singer just for getting old.

But if you consider how much money they made by stealing the credit belonging to others, leaving the others to starve in obscurity is just mean, and sad.

How can THEY feel about Led Zeppelin knowing that Page stole their fame and even their livlihoods? Sort of makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it.
When i saw the movie, The Song Remains The Same years ago, i stopped liking Zep, for some reason. I don't know why. That movie, for me, sort of took away something from how i envisioned them to be. Maybe it was that medley part in, Whole Lotta Love, i thought, why are they incoporating all that old rock and roll and blues stuff in there, even doing BB King in that song. They seemed at that point like an over-glorified "cover band" to me.
Plant still had trouble reaching those high notes in Rock And Roll even at THAT time when that tour was being filmed.

But, now, i see and hear all of this! Oooooh, it makes me red hot.

Maybe Page, with all his "kindness and fairness" decided to give only "partial credit" to the female composer of Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You, Ann Bredone, because maybe she sucked him off. Pffft! Who knows?

Elvis Presely never wrote one song in his whole career, as far as i know.
He may have been the first one to meld black blues with white country music but he never stamped his name as the composer of those songs. He was a fair man in that respect and he made many people rich by doing that. Carl Perkins was one of them.
And everybody knew that Elvis was hanging around black gospel singers and hanging out in juke joints and places like that. So, every one knew where his influences came from.

Page simply took all the credit. Even going as far as stealing songs from his old bandmates. Was it because of his big ego being a famous session guitarist in the 60's? Maybe he thought he deserved that right? Wrongly so, even if he did think like that.

I saw a photo of Beck, Clapton, Page and Brian May all being given that medal Page is holding, by Queen Elizabeth.
In that photo, i see Page smiling in Beck's direction as if to say, "See, you still made it even though i stole your shit."
I see, Brain May, the guitarist of Queen, looking at Page as if he knows something. Just my opinion!
 
May 16, 2006
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Jimmy Page Inaugurates The British Walk Of Fame:


Jimmy Page, the legendary guitarist for the rock group Led Zeppelin, became the first artist to be immortalised in the British Walk of Fame in London, England on Monday, August 23rd. Page officially opened the new attraction on London's Piccadilly by casting his handprints in cement.

The site, outside the new Virgin Music Superstore in Piccadilly Circus (formerly the old Tower Records store), London's landmark crossroads, is to be a tourist magnet for the city, which attracted more than 15 million foreign tourists last year.
Based on the famous Hollywood Walk of Fame in the USA, the British version will soon add more music icons including Beatles survivors Ringo Starr and Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones and David Bowie.

"It's a real privilege and a great honour to be the first person to be immortalised this way," said the 60-year-old Page, after leaving his prints in fresh cement. "I'm really chuffed. A Walk of Fame is a fantastic idea and it's high time we had one in London. There are a lot of musicians out there who deserve the honour. If you started putting in all the people I think are deserving, you could cover the whole of London."

"This has always been a prestigious site for music so it's right that the Walk of Fame should be here," Page said.

It may have been a good idea to let the cement dry with Page's hands still in the cement.
 

Neverenuff$

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Hmmm...
Random thoughts

The well reviered "furious.com" and the popular music critic "Will shade" ... hmm "Will Shade" ......

Well Jimmy is blues influenced and was a member of the Yardbirds, so a lot of his stuff will be influenced by.. x Yardbyrd members like Clapton and Beck, and Willie Dixon was a influence on Page as well from what I've read... .

Also... seeing as most rock/blues somgs involve what .. 3 chords, you hear similarites alll the time ....

Many artists are accused (some sued successfully Nobody picks on George Harrison tho)

So when Beck and Clapton tell all about Page in a "Guitar player " article then maybe Page will be exposed as a "hack" ...

oh BTW

Will Shade (February 5, 1898 – September 18, 1966) was an African-American Memphis blues musician best known for his membership in the Memphis Jug Band


Led Zepplin hit the scene in '69


Me thinks this be crap..........

Now crank up communication breakdown and listen to that Tele sing !!!

(the 58 was a stage guitar)
 
May 16, 2006
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Why am i doing this?

Hi-ee everyone,

I hope you find this information interesting.
My real point of this thread is not to show how Page ripped off only the old bluesmen - so many white people (The Americans and the British) did that all throughout the early days of Rock and Roll music. Page wasn't the only one. The Rolling Stones, for example did it too, with a song called, Love in Vain, which was actually written by Robert Johnson.
However, wrong it was, though, The Stones proved themselves to be able to write their own style of music over the decades, even though heavily based on "Race Music".
The Stones are guilty of Brain Jones' demise, actually. They ruined that poor guy, and HE was the founding member of The Stones.

Back in those days when Rock and Roll was born, they couldn't show the original black artists on television doing their music because all the white folks would think that was disgusting to see uneducated, rural slaves on national television - the tv show's ratings would have dropped like a LEAD BALLOON (pun intended) if they did.

So many of the white groups or their managers decided to steal the "race music" as it was called then, and substitute the raw, black performers with white artists whose "squeeky clean" images would appeal to the white American public - so they could enjoy a new style of music and have all those new dance crazes.
All the dances in those days were created by the blacks and the whites just ignored their sources.
Do you really think that Elvis "the Pelvis" Presley made up all those sexual dance moves by himself? No way, José! The television stations couldn't allow the blacks to be seen on national television moving as "freely" as that.
The whites, just said, "Nope! We have to have white people on tv and we'll steal their music and dances and call them our own."

There is a movie documentary i saw years ago, i forget the name of it, but it was called something like, "The Allan Freed Rock and Roll Show", or something like that - i forget. But Allan Freed was in the documovie.

Getting back to my main point of creating this thread which is to show and prove how Page ripped off even his own Yardbyrds bandmates, and many other white musicians, as well, just to make a name for himself - so he can be revered as a great innovator and/or songwriter.

If people had only known, then, that the other Yardbyrds members contributed or even wrote songs like Dazed and Confused, and Tangerine, even before Page entered The Yardbyrds, maybe the public might have seen them for their true talents and they could have been recognized for who they actually were - not to mention all the fame and fortune Led Zeppelin could have provided to those artists JUST by giving credit where credit was due. Led Zeppelin became millionaires because of it.

I feel bad about this Jimmy Page thing, because he was REALLY one of my biggest idols, at one time.

Babe
xoxo
 

Neverenuff$

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well if it makes you feel better .. that movie... where George clooney was a blues singer.... can't remember the movie and won't hit google.. but anyway for every song they used in the movie , the original artist was found and a royalty paid... apparently even to living relatives of passed on artists..

I just remeber hearing/reading that some where ..
 
May 16, 2006
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Sorry but your wrong!

Neverenuff$ said:
Many artists are accused (some sued successfully Nobody picks on George Harrison tho)
Harrison was sued by the Dells, i think it was for "My Sweet Lord".
I think the song by the Dells was, "He's So Fine"
Do your research!

Why not listen to the youtube clips i included. There's the proof.

Thanks, for your comment.

Babe,
xoxo
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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dahliafrommerb said:
Harrison was sued by the Dells, i think it was for "My Sweet Lord".
I think the song by the Dells was, "He's So Fine"
Do your research!

Why not listen to the youtube clips i inculded. There the proof.

Thanks, for your comment.

Babe,
xoxo
i think its time to turn the page on this thread
 

Neverenuff$

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Sep 10, 2003
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dahliafrommerb said:
Harrison was sued by the Dells, i think it was for "My Sweet Lord".
I think the song by the Dells was, "He's So Fine"
Do your research!

Why not listen to the youtube clips i included. There's the proof.

Thanks, for your comment.

Babe,
xoxo

Ummm my point was that Harrison did get sued , thus the "succesfully" reference .

maybe we should Jimmy open the vaults on the entire Zep cataloge
 

Neverenuff$

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oh on the Harrison Front ... read the History of the settlement ..
Harrison ended up with royalyies all around anyway ..sory for the cut and paste but its a "thread thing"

Following the song's release, musical similarities between "My Sweet Lord" and The Chiffons' hit "He's So Fine" led to a lengthy legal battle over the rights to the composition. Billboard magazine, in an article dated 6 March 1971, stated that Harrison's royalty payments from the recording had been halted worldwide. Harrison stated that he was inspired to write "My Sweet Lord" after hearing the Edwin Hawkins Singers' "Oh Happy Day".

In the U.S. federal court decision in the case, known as Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music,[1] Harrison was found to have unintentionally copied the earlier song. He was ordered to surrender the majority of royalties from "My Sweet Lord" and partial royalties from All Things Must Pass. Former manager Allen Klein, who earlier had supported Harrison's case, became the owner of Bright Tunes, after they parted ways. In the long run this worked against Klein, but it resulted in the case continuing for years in court.

The Chiffons would later record "My Sweet Lord" to capitalize on the publicity generated by the lawsuit.

Shortly thereafter, Harrison (who would eventually buy the rights to "He's So Fine")[2] wrote and recorded a song about the court case named "This Song", which includes "This song, there's nothing 'Bright' about it." "I Can't Help Myself (Sugar Pie, Honey Bunch)" and "Rescue Me" are also mentioned in the record.


Now back to Jimmy....
 
May 16, 2006
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Let's discuss real respect, now. Something Page lacks!

Hi again,

I know these posts are coming at you quickly. They are all my posts that i have in another board.

Where these British musicians really screwed themselves up was how they assumed that no one would ever realize that these Robert Johnson, Big Bill Broonzy, and Sonny Boy Williamson etc, race music recordings would ever become so well known, later on. These race music recordings were only sold in, and heard on the plantations where these bluesmen lived and worked.

Oddly enough and quite stupidly, it turns out, the Brits thought that only THEY had copies of these blues songs. It was only until the real bluesmen headed up to Chicago, looking for work after slavery was abolished, when the big news broke out that their blues music had being stolen by the many arrogant Brits during the famous British Invasion.
The Brits brought to America all the music they had stolen from the American bluesmen and it must have been a very BIG surprise to come face to face with the same men whose tunes they had stolen, probably thinking they had been whipped to death somewhere on a plantation in the rural deep south.
Surprise, surprise "mates"!

Maybe that's why all those British guys, like Townsend, Beck, Page, Clapton and The Beatles and all the others were so stunned when Hendrix landed in London. They were just copying what they heard on old records and trying to sound like bluesmen, while Hendrix was an aunthentic bluesman, himself, having played on the Chitlin' Circuit with all the blues and R&B greats, like Little Richard, The Isley Brothers, Ike and Tina Turner, Sonny Boy Williamson, and many many more, as just a sideman in those groups.

Hendrix was a little guilty too of stealing from others. But not as much because Hendrix would take a song and make it totally his own, in the style of Hendrix, much like Stevie Ray Vaughan did.

Hendrix stole those flamboyant and sexual movements that Little Richard used to do on stage. Hendrix worked as a sideman for Little Richard, back in the 60's, watching and learning all that he did from the sidelines. Little Richard has said in many interviews that Hendrix acted very much like Little Richard did on stage. Only thing is, Hendrix became enormously famous.
Little Richard even said, "When you see Jimi Hendrix, you're really looking at me, the one and only, Little Richard. I taught him all he knows."
And he was 100% right.
Of course when Hendrix became so famous, he changed his image a bit and became the guy with the "opened mouth" while playing his fantastic guitar solos. (it always bothers me how the camermen who filmed most of Jimi's on stage performances would zoom in on Jimi's opened mouth.)

You wanna see Little Richard incarnated as Jimi Hendrix?...just watch the DVD Jimi Hendrix at the Montery Pop Festival. THAT is Little Richard up there on the stage doing Peter Townsend antics and using a copied Townsend rig set up.

Hendrix also did all that "breaking guitar stuff" just like The Who did back then. But Hendrix never broke a guitar until he met and saw The Who, onstage over in England. Hendrix became close friends with Townsend, and then later used Townsend's exact stage set up, all the same amps and stuff. So Jimi copied Townsend, almost like a carbon copy of Townsend. Jimi was like a sponge to a certain extent. A highly original one, though.
Hendrix used to do a blues cover of a song called, Rock Me Baby, and Jimi DID give credit to the original composer.
Chas Chandler, however, (a Brit, mind you) suggested to Jimi that Jimi should change the words of his version of Rock Me Baby and keep the same guitar arrangement that he'd been doing and just change the title, to Lover Man. Chas said, "You could take the credit if you just change the words and the title." And Jimi did it, too. It's still Rock Me Baby, though.
Jimi's guitar version of Rock Me Baby didn't really sound too much like the original, but the vocal melody did still sound like the original. Check out, Jimi's cover tune, Rock Me Baby, and then compare it to Jimi's song called, Lover Man. It's the same damn song! That was a Jimi Hendrix sin to the blues world!

Stevie Ray Vaughan, however, is considered to be a GREATER than thou blues icon. And he was, too. But slow down any of Stevie's guitar solos to a snail's crawl, and you will hear only Delta blues and city blues guitar stylings and the classic guitar voicings of T-Bone Walker, Elmore James, Albert King, and Buddy Guy or any other of the many great and not no great bluesmens' guitar styles. Stevie linked them all together mixing up all the styles and playing them so fast and furiously and beautifully and with breath-taking precision and showmanship, that they can only be called, classic Stevie Ray Vaughan blues solos. And all that is perfectly okay because Stevie never claimed to have invented those solos, he always paid tribute to the bluesmen in the past. Never once trying to discredit any of them.
Stevie Ray did a show once and was SO SHOCKED and OFFENDED to discover that BB King was the opening act. Stevie was ashamed and hurt because of his own fame because he felt he owed so much to these old bluesmen and he begged BB King for his forgiveness because, he had become more "in demand" than his blues idol. Stevie had tears in his eyes when he told BB King, "It just ain't right! I should be opening for you, not the other way around!"
THAT, my friends, is a show of TRUE RESPECT worth noting!!

If you want to see a FABULOUS DVD of Stevie Ray Vaughan, go out and buy Live at The El Mocambo, in Toronto. That is when Stevie had just realeased his Texas Flood album! It's an awesome performance, and the songs are played back to back, with only a short "thank you very much" between each song. DYNAMIC performance!! I think only after the third song, Stevie was already drenched in sweat. He poured out his heart and soul all over those guitar strings. I recommend that DVD because Stevie was really trying to make his mark. Only later on in his career did he become cocaine and alcohol addicted. If you want to see a clear minded Stevie, the El Mocambo is a truly awesome performance by a fame seeking young bluesman destined to become immortal.
When Clapton was driving in his car one day and Stevie came on the car radio for the first time ever, he said in an interview, "Before the day is over, i have to find out who that guitar player is."

Anyway, I'll stop now.

Take care and Happy Holidays!
Babe,
xoxo
 
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