NHL: Who is a definite Hall of Famer playing today?

[shack]

Victor Hedman.

I strongly considered him. Not sure why I left him off. Mistake.

 

[maurice93]

Marner was a joke.

But I am serious that if Matthews or McDavid never played another game, neither's career would be good enough to qualify for the HoF. They haven't played long enough or accomplished enough. McD would be closer because of his scoring titles. But IMO, 9 seasons, 650 games , no cups and only 335 goals doesn't quite cut it yet as a HoF career.

I'd bet that since 1965 nobody has got in with as short of a career. Even Orr played 11 seasons with similar offensive numbers but he did it as a defenceman and revolutionized the game. I think that Orr's accomplishments dwarf what McD has done in light of that.

If you are looking for comparables in terms of short careers, I noted Cam Neely and Pavel Bure in my long post above (which may get buried in there)

McDavid and Matthews are not far from Bure and Neely in terms of career games (less than one full season) and have accomplished far more elite stuff (MVP level stuff) than those two, with more or similar point production.

How can 8 top 5 MVP Finishes, including 3 MVP's, not be accomplishing enough?

 

[The Oracle]

Marchand has 401 Career Goals, 929 points, has finished top 10 in the Hart 4 times, and has been on a year end All-Star Team 4 times.
Marchand is probably a lock at this point.

Others who I have well ahead of Pavelski, are John Tavares and Claude Giroux. I think the latter two are fairly close to locks, but I won't give it to them either,

Marchand has a career plus/minus of +292...That's phenomenal.

I think that Pavelski being an American will work in his favour. He's got 476 goals and 1068 points. With 74 career playoff goals. Also a career plus/minus of 201. Impressive body of work.

 

[The Oracle]

Matthews has more career goals than Joe Pavelski.

You've erred in writing this.

 

[maurice93]

You've erred in writing this.

I just realized I was looking at the wrong line in Pavelski's career totals.

I pulled off 355 career goals from hockey reference, but that is his San Jose total only. I was "surprised" that he did not have more than 355 but I went with it in my analysis. Well now I know why I was surprised... because its actually 476.

Now that makes his case far more stronger. He will hit 500.

 

[maurice93]

Marchand has a career plus/minus of +292...That's phenomenal.

I think that Pavelski being an American will work in his favour. He's got 476 goals and 1068 points. With 74 career playoff goals. Also a career plus/minus of 201. Impressive body of work.

I'm not sure if being American will give Pavelski any positive rub or not, as there are now a number of Americans in the Hall. It's not a Joe Mullen situation anymore. It hasn't helped Roenick or Tkachuk, who are the two highest goal scorers not in that are eligible (along with Pat Verbeek)

That being said he is still cruising, will hit 500, and has a rep as good defensive forward based on some Selke finishes (which separates him from those two above) and a very strong playoff performer. He is probably a lock, although he may have to wait his turn.

 

[shack]

I agree with the larger majority of the list, but not all. But gave it a like, because you put a list out there which will generate discussion.

1. Is Marner a Typo?

Not a typo but definitely not serious.

2. McDavid is a 100% lock as of now, unless his reason for leaving hockey this summer is going to jail for a long time. Can probably make same argument for Auston Matthews.

I answered above.

For context, McDavid and Matthews have now played nearly as many career games as Cam Neely and Pavel Bure (who both got in the Hall fairly quickly after eligibility) and both have accomplished more in terms of elite play.

Neely - 726 Games, 395 Goals, One Top 10 Hart Finish (9th)
Bure - 702 Games, 437 Goals, Two Top 10 Hart Finishes (3rd and 9th)
Matthews - 562 Games, 368 Goals, 4 Top 10 Hart Finishes (1, 2, 4 and 10)
McDavid - 645 Games, 982 Points, 8 Top 10 Hart Finishes (1,1,1, 2, 3, 3, 5,5)

Maybe my standards are higher than the HockeyHoF. LOL.

I think they are very, very close to making it but that's still 1 more season for McD and 2 more for AM34. At that point, I'm sure they would have been on my list. But as you alluded to, shit happens.

I took a lot of flak when I said that Tiger was not a lock to pass Jack after he reached 14 majors. I said the same thing then, shit happens in lives.

3. Brent Burns is not a clear hall of Famer at this point. He could get in, but it's going to be a long wait for him if he does. Brining up a guy I had posted earlier in this thread.... Roman Josi has likely surpassed him as a candidate with 3 strong years since my post. Josi has a few more top end seasons than Burns, and it could continue

An omission on my part. I've seen fairly little of his play.

4. Eric Staal is far from definitive in my view (as an aside his career ended at the end of last yera). His issue is that his career is lacking in elite play other than his 21 year old season, I think he sort of falls in to the Roenick, Tkachuk categories, who are still waiting after a long time. Staal had one elite season where he was 4th in the Hart. His next highest Hart finish is only 17th. Perhaps he gets a lot of credit for leading the Canes to the Cup.
He made one year end All-Star Team (2nd team), and his next highest finish in All-Star Voting was 7th.

I can never forget that Stanley Cup season. He was the ultimate power forward. But I gave to him for his physical presence combined with his longevity considering. It's not easy to play that physical for such a long time.

5. Have to disagree with someone like Pavelski over Marchand.
Pavelski has 355 Career Goals, 761 points, has finished top 10 in the Hart (7th), and has been on a year end All-Star Team once.
Marchand has 401 Career Goals, 929 points, has finished top 10 in the Hart 4 times, and has been on a year end All-Star Team 4 times.
Marchand is probably a lock at this point.

Others who I have well ahead of Pavelski, are John Tavares and Claude Giroux. I think the latter two are fairly close to locks, but I won't give it to them either,

I stand corrected.

p.s. Just saw your/Orry's amended stats for Pavelski. I feel vindicated. Woo hoo!!!.

 

[maurice93]

Not a typo but definitely not serious.

I answered above.

Maybe my standards are higher than the HockeyHoF. LOL.

I think they are very, very close to making it but that's still 1 more season for McD and 2 more for AM34. At that point, I'm sure they would have been on my list. But as you alluded to, shit happens.

I took a lot of flak when I said that Tiger was not a lock to pass Jack after he reached 14 majors. I said the same thing then, shit happens in lives.

An omission on my part. I've seen fairly little of his play.

I can never forget that Stanley Cup season. He was the ultimate power forward. But I gave to him for his physical presence combined with his longevity considering. It's not easy to play that physical for such a long time.

I stand corrected.

Actually, I'm the one who stands corrected on Joe Pavelski. I sold him short of 121 career goals, when I was writing that (thanks to Oracle pointing out my error). I edited my post to acknowledge my error. I think you have Pavelski on your list correctly.

 

[superstar_88]

I did consider them both but Vasilevsky still hasn't reached 300 wins and Marchand is also close but he's a Bruin and a nasty one at that.

D'men are a little tougher. I was close with Vlasic, Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. I also considered Claude Giroux. He's very close.

Marner was just to see if anybody was paying attention. LOL That's why I put him last.

That's what I suspected since no one in their right mind would put Marner ahead of either McD or Matthews.
I thought you were trolling or just off your rockers.

 

[bobbyknight]

mcdavid - lock
matthews- lock
marner- only if he turns up the next 5 years of his career and has big moments

shack is trolling at this point.

 

[maurice93]

Is Sergei Bobrovsky a lock for the Hall of Fame if he wins the Cup this year with Florida?

2 Vezina Trophies (i.e High peak Play)
396 career wins (14th All Time - so he has the longevity)

His career dipped with Florida, but he had a very good regular season in 23/24 (and solid in 21/22). And now he has been the goaltender for two straight Cup appearances.

 

[maurice93]

3 Hall of Famers inducted today. No issues with any of the picks (jn theory) - Roenick, Weber, Datsyuk.

That being said
#1) I don't think Roenick should have needed to wait that long.
#2) Shea Weber is not a "First Ballot" Hall of Famer IMO, which is a distinction of some sorts. A Hall of Famer ... yes, but I thought he could have waited a bit.

Also in relation to this thread solely, I think Bobrovsky has clinched his ultimate induction.

 

[tml]

Also in relation to this thread solely, I think Bobrovsky has clinched his ultimate induction.

......and Paul Maurice.

 

[shack]

3 Hall of Famers inducted today. No issues with any of the picks (jn theory) - Roenick, Weber, Datsyuk.

That being said
#1) I don't think Roenick should have needed to wait that long.
#2) Shea Weber is not a "First Ballot" Hall of Famer IMO, which is a distinction of some sorts. A Hall of Famer ... yes, but I thought he could have waited a bit.

Also in relation to this thread solely, I think Bobrovsky has clinched his ultimate induction.

I haven't looked at stats which may prove me wrong, but I'd rate Roenick as 3rd of those 3. But, as you said, no issues for me either.