Why is it ok for you to call Khalistanis terrorist, but not the Indian majority hindu's that abuse, murdered and raped Khalistanis?
Modi scolds Trudeau over Sikh protests in Canada against India
- Thread starter The Oracle
- Start date
They are terrorists because they killed 288 Canadians, and people of other countries, not to mention many more in India, in terrorist attacks.
The Indian authorities being abusive towards Sikhs, was not a pogrom by the state, but rather crude and corrupt law enforcement. Indian police is notorious for torture and abuse. It routinely happens with anyone who is arrested.
I also want to highlight, that a lot of the cops who tortured Sikhs, were SIKHS!! Who do you think led Operation Blue Star that resulted in the assassination of Indira Gandhi? It was Lieutenant General Kuldip Singh Brar. A SIKH. There were many Sikhs like for example Second Lieutenant Jasbir Singh Raina who took part in the operation and infact apparently put his hand up and said he wanted to be the first one to enter the Golden Temple and wipe out the militants.
As I said, the majority of Sikhs in India, do not care for the Khalistanis.
I mean if Canadians are so inclined go ahead and rename Brampton to Khalistan and lets be done with it.
Its really weird the people on this board who seem to be fairly liberal until it gets personal and tribal. The Israel threads are full of posters who are generally quite liberal and anti racist, until it gets to that one country.
Now you're doing a bit of the same thing, going from someone who argued really clearly and fairly about immigration and immigrant rights to this. Now you seem to be coming down heavy on Sikhs and calling Nijjar, who has been a Canadian citizen longer than you it appears, a 'terrorist'. Sikh independence has a long and fairly violent road, as has the reaction to them in India but I've yet to hear anything suggesting Nijjar was a terrorist or militant. The IRA and Nelson Mandela were called terrorists at one point. Wasn't even Ghandi? But backing Modi, a populist pushing anti Muslim rhetoric and then calling Sikh's terrorists doesn't make your argument very trustworthy.
Canada has had separatists in Quebec for decades, and other than that brief FLQ time, its been peaceful.
You should argue to watch and/or investigate if you're really worried. But then you should also take a stand against Modi or at least note that side of him if you want to be taken seriously as unbiased.
I am not coming down heavy on Sikhs. My brother in law is Sikh. Sikhs are not Khalistanis. Khalistanis are Sikhs.
Sikhs in India, do not care for the Khalistan movement. They are the ones living in India. They don't care. My brother in law does not care and infact is against the Khalistani movement.
This movement is only popular amongst the Sikh diaspora in the west. None of the people supporting Khalistan in this diaspora are actually Indian citizens. So even if Khalistan was formed tomorrow, do you think they will immediately pack their bags and move back? So who are they fighting for when the majority of Sikhs that actually matter (the ones living there) do not even support the movement?
Nijjar is a terrorist because he has been implicated in multiple targeted killings in India. Infact, the chief minister of Punjab (Amarinder Singh, who is a Sikh himself) gave Trudeau a list of most wanted persons with this guys name on it. Regardless of all that, it is well known that the Khalistanis (who are Canadian citizens) were responsible for the bombing of Air India Flight 182. 329 people died. 288 of them Canadians. Is that a terrorist attack or no? If that was a terrorist attack, it follows that the Khalistani movement is a terrorist movement and belonging to that group automatically makes you a terrorist. So given all these guys are Canadian citizens that does make them a domestic terror group yet to be designated as one by the Canadian govt.
Now all of that does not justify India acting on Canadian soil. I agree with that. But if it did happen that India was responsible for the death of this guy, I am still not going to feel sorry or outraged.
I am not being tribal here. The Khalistanis are the tribal ones asking for a theocratic ethno-state. Me advocating for a multireligious, multiethnic, multicultural pluralistic India, that is inclusive of Sikhs, is the opposite of tribal.
Sikhs are INDIANS. They are NOT Khalistanis. There is no independence movement nor is any independence required, as they are already independent as Indians. Punjab is a VERY integrated state in India. The idea of Khalistan was born in the 1930s along with the "two nation theory" that led to the formation of Pakistan. So the Sikhs wanted a separate state as well, but their movement never had any widespread support because they were a minority. Infact, Punjab before the partition in 1947, spanned both India and Pakistan and over 52% of that state went to Pakistan during partition. The majority of the Sikhs, left Pakistan and moved to the Indian state of Punjab, where they were STILL the minorities. Their initial fear was that they would become 2nd class citizens and lose their culture, but this is clearly not the case today. Sikhs have their distinct culture that Indians actually appreciate. Sikhs are respected, well liked and successful, which is why they themselves don't care for a separate Khalistan.
Yes, the 1984 anti-Sikh riots were horrible. India has had a few of those religious riots, Muslims suffering the most. That was indeed shameful. India is yet to bring to justice people who committed those crimes. But in my opinion that is a long forgotten chapter. Such things won't happen today.
Regardless of what religion you belong to, regardless of how Modi and his Hindu Nationalists behave, we are bound by one common identity (among others), that we are Indian. And any group that threatens the stability and integrity of that identity and worse, attacks the nation and its peoples, are terrorists.
I think that is the right position to take.
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Few things.
why is it, when it’s fairly apparent or when it’s obvious, someone has knowledge or insight on a particular subject. The default isn’t “hey, they might have knowledge or insight that I could benefit from?” That doesn’t make said person right or wrong, it’s just means they have insight/knowledge. Whether that’s lawyers here, Union members/reps, or in this case, someone with a cultural background.
And obviously Kautilya and I aren’t golf buddies. That said, without touching on the politics involved, remember Che Guevara.
One persons terrorist, is another’s freedom fighter. Pretty sure, by most definitions colonialist in 1775 located in North America were terrorist. They won, and are instead called Americans today. And terrorism, well theirs anyways is celebrated.
Terrorism, by definition are acts of violence for political gain. More so, if civilians are involved.
why is it, when it’s fairly apparent or when it’s obvious, someone has knowledge or insight on a particular subject. The default isn’t “hey, they might have knowledge or insight that I could benefit from?” That doesn’t make said person right or wrong, it’s just means they have insight/knowledge. Whether that’s lawyers here, Union members/reps, or in this case, someone with a cultural background.
And obviously Kautilya and I aren’t golf buddies. That said, without touching on the politics involved, remember Che Guevara.
One persons terrorist, is another’s freedom fighter. Pretty sure, by most definitions colonialist in 1775 located in North America were terrorist. They won, and are instead called Americans today. And terrorism, well theirs anyways is celebrated.
Terrorism, by definition are acts of violence for political gain. More so, if civilians are involved.
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I had also thought the Khalistanis were more cartoonish than serious, which is why I'm surprised that India or Modi would take them seriously enough to risk an assassination.
Nijjar was supposedly meeting with CSIS weekly because of threats against him.
But wasn't most of that from the state of India, including India warning JT about 8 Sikh separatists.
The terrorist allegation doesn't seem to fit this case.
I think something may be happening.https://globalnews.ca/news/9973179/india-canada-travel-advisory/
Didn't the Hindu mobs douse Sikh women and children with gasoline and burn them alive in 1984?
Doesn't sound like a happy, well functioning state to me.
It could be though. I know a lot of investment is turning away from China and were eyeing India as a better option. If things go further off the rails, who knows how this could turn out. Modi is not a great leader, very authoritarian and he's a Hindu-supremacist.
Serious question: How is Canada enabling them? They haven't broken any laws here regarding the Khalistan movement. How would we clamp down on this? I respect Sikhs, everyone of them I've met or worked with are fantastic people. Generous and kind. I'm not really in favour of this Khalistan stuff, and I agree, the Air India bombing was a horrific attempt to get back at India over the Golden Temple incident...
As for how minorities are treated: What about how the government is treating muslims? And after that, how will they treat the christians?
Long after Trudeau is gone, peoples with roots from the Indian subcontinent in Canada whether they are Hindu, Sikh, Muslim or Tamil (there is a already a massive and influential presence which is rapidly growing) will have a profound effect on the socioeconomic and political culture of Canada. Expect some of the conflicts from back home to be imported to Canada and expect some of the politicians to exploit them.
I would describe his defense of anything that impugns the reputation, integrity, credibility and the overarching awesomeness of India as rabid, rabidly nationalistic.
I have noticed this prior to and outside of this thread.
India has the world's 3rd worst air pollution, only surpassed by Bangladesh and Pakistan as measured by estimated PM2.5 particles- micrograms per cubic meter. India is home to 22 of the world's 30 most polluted cities, India's toxic air kills almost 2 million people each year.
Instead on fixating on fanciful trips to the moon, extra-judicial murder on another country's soil and craven financial and economic opportunism disguised under the banner of long-standing non-alignment, India really should allieve the suffering of it's own people such as:
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They bombed Air India Flight 182 and killed 288 Canadians. Is that not breaking the law at the very least? Not to mention they coordinate attacks in India. Then they vandalize the Indian embassies and pull down the flag. Is that not illegal to do so even per Canadian law? So Canada harping on about freedom of speech for these idiots, is enabling them. IMO.
I have no problems with people who peacefully protest or even ask for Khalistan without killing people, bombing planes etc., Heck I don't even care about these guys pulling down the Indian flag even though it is very disrespectful. But sitting here in Canada as a Canadian citizen and then indulging in violent means to try and force change that their own people back home don't want is just straight up militancy/terrorism.
Political assassination would be killing Rahul Gandhi (the leader of the opposition).
Nijjar is not an Indian political opponent. He is a separatist militant/terrorist. He is an enemy of the state because he conducts war against the state.
They did. I mentioned in my post too. And they did worse. It was shameful for which no justice has been done till now. But that won't happen today to Sikhs. Those situations have changed.
India with its enormous population and diversity is never going to be a "well functioning state" the way Canada functions. India will always be a country of contradictions and conflict, but still somehow endure.
If Nijjar was clean why was he meeting with CSIS weekly? Why were there threats against him? Of course India warned JT and even provided names of persons, but isn't that what a country is supposed to do? I am not sure what you'd recommend India do in this case because these things happen within a system where the intelligence or security agencies provide a recommendation and then the govt. acts on it. They can't just call them cartoonish and ignore them given the history of violence.
But yes, I have no issues with the Khalistanis protesting, flying their flags, yelling "Death to India" and I can even tolerate them pulling down and desecrating the Indian flag from the embassy. But trying to attack and kill people (even if they are unimportant), while being Canadian citizens, should be banned and called terrorist. IMO. And belonging to an organization like that and leading a "Khalistan Tiger Force" is terrorism. I mean heck why would a Canadian citizen need to lead a "Khalistan Tiger Force" if not to attack India?
Except Sikhs back in India don't consider these guys freedom fighters. Sikhs back in India know that the entirety of India is their Khalistan. Why would they be dumb enough to want to be relegated to a small north Indian state when they can do pretty much whatever they want throughout India? Sikhs are after all one of the most respected communities in India. I mean the guy who was responsible for India's economic revival, Dr. Manmohan Singh, who was also a former Indian PM, was a Sikh himself. They have also served in the Indian army - I think they compose 1.8% of India's population but they comprise 8% of the Indian army.
