Mark Fenton

[SkyRider]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...sts-guilty-of-discreditable-conduct-1.3202686

I don't understand why the organizers of the "peaceful" protest are not held responsible for the damage caused by their "peaceful" protestors. There should be a law that says if you organize a protest/march/parade/demonstration, you are also responsible and liable for any costs/injuries/damages caused by your event, including the cost of policing.

 

[peteeey]

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/12/05/g20-kettling-incident-was-wrong-former-inspector-tells-hearing

Because sometimes "peaceful" protests are just that. "Peaceful" protests, in this case including innocent bystanders. I don't understand why inept. boorish, insolent cops never get punished for their incompetence. In the case of this inexpert Mark Fenton, he'll soon retire and won't face any penalty for his ineptness.

 

[MRBJX]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...sts-guilty-of-discreditable-conduct-1.3202686

I don't understand why the organizers of the "peaceful" protest are not held responsible for the damage caused by their "peaceful" protestors. There should be a law that says if you organize a protest/march/parade/demonstration, you are also responsible and liable for any costs/injuries/damages caused by your event, including the cost of policing.

They were peacful until some fool, or inept cop made them unpeaceful.
If you have such a hard time with freedom of assembly maybe its time you left the country for a country with your ideals.

 

[exnocomment]

As someone downtown during this event .. Please don't try to blame ALL of it on the cops.. Even with the benefit of the doubt, there were definitely professional agitators there that both did a lot of damage as well as worked up some mob mentality amongst other presumably otherwise decent people. I had colleagues have bags of urine thrown at them amongst a myriad of other tales of mayhem. The Black Bloc didn't cause all of it - so there were definitely some "bystanders" that got personally involved. That said the police did not behave correctly but like everything else in life it's a shade of grey vs black & white.

 

[twizz]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...sts-guilty-of-discreditable-conduct-1.3202686

I don't understand why the organizers of the "peaceful" protest are not held responsible for the damage caused by their "peaceful" protestors. There should be a law that says if you organize a protest/march/parade/demonstration, you are also responsible and liable for any costs/injuries/damages caused by your event, including the cost of policing.

People were charged. It's impossible to charge every guilty person whose part of a large crowd full of innocent people.

Mark Fenton had no right to violate the charter because that's what makes this country so great.

 

[SkyRider]

Even with the benefit of the doubt, there were definitely professional agitators there that both did a lot of damage as well as worked up some mob mentality amongst other presumably otherwise decent people. I had colleagues have bags of urine thrown at them amongst a myriad of other tales of mayhem. The Black Bloc didn't cause all of it - so there were definitely some "bystanders" that got personally involved.

People want to ignore all that and blame the whole mess on the cops. It wasn't the cops who broke windows, damaged property and set fire to cars. Don't we have laws against incitement to riot? Is it really a "peaceful" protest when one uses violent language that leads to a riot? How can someone claim to be a peaceful protester when the "protest" is an out of control riot?

 

[Polaris]

People want to ignore all that and blame the whole mess on the cops. It wasn't the cops who broke windows, damaged property and set fire to cars. Don't we have laws against incitement to riot? Is it really a "peaceful" protest when one uses violent language that leads to a riot? How can someone claim to be a peaceful protester when the "protest" is an out of control riot?

The cops were completely in the wrong this.

First, they would not control the crowd. The smashing of windows, and burning of the abandoned police ... well, where the hell the cops? Yeah, too busy watching the whole unfold. Not like they did not expect anything that like, yet it happened.

Second, then to make it all right again, they arrest all these people who had nothing to do with the vandalism. The cops arrested all these people to feel good about themselves.

Well, how about doing your job for a change. That's cops, that's a government worker.

Having said all that, kind of strange there's still witch hunt going. Like who the hell cares.

 

[LurkingInMyTent]

<SNIP>

Having said all that, kind of strange there's still witch hunt going. Like who the hell cares.

If you read the linked article, the charges were originally laid in 2012 but the trial was delayed, so your characterization of this as a witch hunt is unfounded. As for who cares, I do and so should everyone who appreciates that we live in a democratic society where this kind of abuse is not tolerated.

 

[twizz]

People want to ignore all that and blame the whole mess on the cops. It wasn't the cops who broke windows, damaged property and set fire to cars. Don't we have laws against incitement to riot? Is it really a "peaceful" protest when one uses violent language that leads to a riot? How can someone claim to be a peaceful protester when the "protest" is an out of control riot?

It was only a few that damaged property, the black block. There are also agent provocateurs that work for the police which are among gatherings like these that have been caught before.
People have a right to assemble, it's in the charter.
Protests against political and economic inequality that have WORKED weren't usually done through peaceful means. You definitely benefit from past acts of civil disobedience.

Sometimes shit gets fucked up, there's insurance for that. The rich don't pay their fair share of taxes, everyone else picks up the difference. That's life.

 

[Polaris]

If you read the linked article, the charges were originally laid in 2012 but the trial was delayed, so your characterization of this as a witch hunt is unfounded. As for who cares, I do and so should everyone who appreciates that we live in a democratic society where this kind of abuse is not tolerated.

Why are we bothering to even reply?

For sure you know that 1000 people were arrested, the biggest mass arrest in Canadian history, and all this cop will get is a slap in the wrist.

To me, all this proves, yet again, that cops basically are shit-heads.

The cops, with reinforcements from Quebec, let a small group of hooligans break some windows on Yonge Street, (no looting though, this is Canada not America). and burn a police car. Well, why did the cops abandon the police car in the first place?

Then a day later, and two days later, make mass arrests. All those people arrested, 99% were let go, just like that.

So did they catch the guys who burned out the police car?

We know the answer to that. And that is why they are dummies only wanting to cover their ass.

:hippie:

 

[twizz]

The cops also made thr boo boo of telling everyone where they were going to be which is why it was so easy to damage property.

 

[SchlongConery]

People want to ignore all that and blame the whole mess on the cops.

Really?

Show me ONE "people" that "all" and "whole" apply to.

It wasn't the cops who broke windows, damaged property and set fire to cars.

It wasn't the people who wrongfully and unlawfully arrested the day the charges against Insp Fenton relate to that rioted

I was eating wings peacefully at Hooters as the buses of cops rolled in like exuberant college frat boys rolled in. Thankfully, one of the coppers recognized me as I was leaving and suggested I walk eastbound instead of west as they were going to kick some ass. Otherwise I would have been arrested too. And maybe you too if you hadn't have been sucking dick at your local Division.

Don't we have laws against incitement to riot? Is it really a "peaceful" protest when one uses violent language that leads to a riot? How can someone claim to be a peaceful protester when the "protest" is an out of control riot?

Yes, Sections 62 and 63 of the Criminal Code relate to unlawful assemblies and riots.

And you might notice that the hundreds of cops did not charge these thousand (?) people with unlawful assembly nor rioting. A JUDGE determined it was the cops broke the supreme law of Canada and did unlawfully mass arrest the most people in the history of Canada for the purpose of suppressing their FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS under Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to freedom of expression, association and assembly.

I expect a Simpleton yammering response from you but before you do, think twice about the balance between ostensible preventing possible broken windows etc and having the police infringe on your fundamental freedoms and protection from unlawful detention and arrest. I know these big concepts don't get that far up your lizard brainstem but maybe try harder.

 

[anon1]

It was only a few that damaged property, the black block. There are also agent provocateurs that work for the police which are among gatherings like these that have been caught before.

+1............

 

[SkyRider]

People have a right to assemble, it's in the charter.

However, I believe that the organizers have to provide security which is the case with the Scotiabank Caribbean Carnival and the Gay pride Parade. Why were the organizers (Sid Ryan et al) not required to provide and be responsible for security in their "demonstration". Also, don't mass assemblies require a permit?

Protests against political and economic inequality that have WORKED weren't usually done through peaceful means. You definitely benefit from past acts of civil disobedience.

Ok, so how did the G20 destruction make us a better society?

 

[rhuarc29]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...sts-guilty-of-discreditable-conduct-1.3202686

I don't understand why the organizers of the "peaceful" protest are not held responsible for the damage caused by their "peaceful" protestors. There should be a law that says if you organize a protest/march/parade/demonstration, you are also responsible and liable for any costs/injuries/damages caused by your event, including the cost of policing.

IMO, that is a stupid idea. Why should I be responsible for the damage caused by others who tagged along with my otherwise peaceful protest?

 

[SchlongConery]

However, I believe that the organizers have to provide security which is the case with the Scotiabank Caribbean Carnival and the Gay pride Parade.

You really are hard headed. Like ROCK headed. :frusty:

Are you really grasping that desperately to your fundamentally flawed position that you are trying to equate political protests to commercial celebratory festivals?

Why were the organizers (Sid Ryan et al) not required to provide and be responsible for security in their "demonstration".

Fuck you really are hard as ROCK headed!

The simple answer is NO!

First off, I don't recall Sid Ryan organizing this "demonstration". Perhaps you can provide us with a link to his organizing this demonstration.

Secondly, there is no requirement whatsoever to any protest to hire "security". Goes against the fundamental freedom of the little man on the street to be heard.

Also, don't mass assemblies require a permit?

Not for a protest or other similar political/societal demonstration etc. Yes, if you are organizing a commercial venture or other public festival.

Ok, so how did the G20 destruction make us a better society?

Well for one thing, it re-established the knowledge of the FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS of freedom of association, expression and assembly to those people (police) that are already supposed to know this. And that, my fellow Canadian :canada: is far and away more important than anything else that might have been improved in our society by the G20 protests. And more important than some broken windows etc. (NOT excusing such thuggery in any way as I believe those who carried out such acts are mindless dicks anyways)

 

[oldjones]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...sts-guilty-of-discreditable-conduct-1.3202686

I don't understand why the organizers of the "peaceful" protest are not held responsible for the damage caused by their "peaceful" protestors. There should be a law that says if you organize a protest/march/parade/demonstration, you are also responsible and liable for any costs/injuries/damages caused by your event, including the cost of policing.

I agree 100%. If Harper hadn't organized his so-called 'peaceful' assembly, and abruptly moved it into downtown TO after planning it for Muskoka, there would have been no mass arrests, no cop car burnings and no broken windows. He should be held responsible and pay for all the "…costs/injuries/damages caused by your event, including the cost of policing".

The Feds have paid a pittance to prop[erty owners, and picked up some of the policing tab, but like Duffy, the brass are letting poor Mark Fenton hold the bag for everyone higher up, and for all the inept planning, moronic strategy and anonymous crisis management from the RCMP bunker in Barrie (where the word about the venue change apparently didn't penetrate).

Ex-Chief Blair should have been in the dock with Fenton, but because it was a TPS discipline proceeding and he was TPS TopDog that woulda been like a cop arresting himself. The actions of the BlackBloc and their wannabes were entirely predictable. The policing fuck-up we observed over the three days was not.

 

[jcpro]

You really are hard headed. Like ROCK headed. :frusty:

Are you really grasping that desperately to your fundamentally flawed position that you are trying to equate political protests to commercial celebratory festivals?



Fuck you really are hard as ROCK headed!

The simple answer is NO!

First off, I don't recall Sid Ryan organizing this "demonstration". Perhaps you can provide us with a link to his organizing this demonstration.

Secondly, there is no requirement whatsoever to any protest to hire "security". Goes against the fundamental freedom of the little man on the street to be heard.





Not for a protest or other similar political/societal demonstration etc. Yes, if you are organizing a commercial venture or other public festival.






Well for one thing, it re-established the knowledge of the FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS of freedom of association, expression and assembly to those people (police) that are already supposed to know this. And that, my fellow Canadian :canada: is far and away more important than anything else that might have been improved in our society by the G20 protests. And more important than some broken windows etc. (NOT excusing such thuggery in any way as I believe those who carried out such acts are mindless dicks anyways)

I agree. From the civic POV the G20 fiasco had an enormously positive outcome. Millions of Canadians learned their rights and the blind faith in authorities went the way of the dodo. And all it took was one rainy Sunday on Spadina and thousands of people with camera phones.

 

[twizz]

However, I believe that the organizers have to provide security which is the case with the Scotiabank Caribbean Carnival and the Gay pride Parade. Why were the organizers (Sid Ryan et al) not required to provide and be responsible for security in their "demonstration". Also, don't mass assemblies require a permit?
Ok, so how did the G20 destruction make us a better society?

There were no organizers for g20, it was a protest not a parade. Occupy operates without a centralized leadership.

Occupy was shut down by the police and they never really made any big gains but they got their point across.
They also scared the elite class which is why the police responded the way they did. However, what it showed was that the younger generation is a lot more educated than their parents and grandparents, as most of them do not subscribe to Neoconservatism.
After the baby boomers die out it will be extremely difficult to push fascism, unregulated unfettered capitalism, tax cuts for the rich, and imperialist wars.

 

[SkyRider]

I agree 100%. If Harper hadn't organized his so-called 'peaceful' assembly, and abruptly moved it into downtown TO after planning it for Muskoka, there would have been no mass arrests, no cop car burnings and no broken windows. He should be held responsible and pay for all the "…costs/injuries/damages caused by your event, including the cost of policing".

Given the history of violent G20 and similar protests, picking downtown Toronto as the venue was a really poor choice and also the short time frame to prepare for the meeting. Also, given the history of violent G20 and WTO protests any protester who thought they were joining a "peaceful" protest was totally naive.

The WTO meeting in Seattle in 1999 was probably the beginning of violent protests at these type of meetings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests