Man with knife on streetcar at Dundas and Grace, shot by police

[blackrock13]

I still say that with at least half a dozen cops and just him, that what happened is still appalling. Don't they use billy sticks anymore? If he got off the bus, couldn't they surround him in the hopes one of them would tackle him or grab his arm?

....and he blindly charges, slashes out and cuts a femoral artery or worse. Billy clubs?

 

[explorerzip]

Doubtful. I see charges of some sort laid. Or a release of eveidence to back up any innocence. This WASNT racially motivated. And we in Canada tend to be a little more measured in our responses to these things. Even the people who organized the walk today were pissed off at the agitators who tried to rush the doors at the police station. I think most people in the city can see this is ONE cop, and not systemic of the police in this city.

The fact this one cop was on ONLY one who discharged his weapon pretty much proves that.

I can't recall any riots in recent history about a cop killing or harming a civilian. I think you're right that Canadians tend take a more measured approach, but we've also had equally damaging riots: Stanley Cup riots of Vancouver in 2011 and G20 riots most recently.

 

[GPIDEAL]

You keep working hard to prove what an idiot you are. What makes you think a streetcar can contain the shrapnel and blast effect of a bomb

Those old streetcars are built like tanks, however, surely it wouldn't isolate a blast due to windows and door openings.

 

[5hummer]

I still say that with at least half a dozen cops and just him, that what happened is still appalling. Don't they use billy sticks anymore? If he got off the bus, couldn't they surround him in the hopes one of them would tackle him or grab his arm?

Are you nuts??? He was holding a knife!

 

[Rockslinger]

If he got off the bus, couldn't they surround him in the hopes one of them would tackle him or grab his arm?

Toronto street cops are not exactly Navy Seals. Also, they didn't know at the time he didn't have a concealed gun(s) on him.

 

[GPIDEAL]

No, being an asshole and having pictures of guns is still not a crime punishable by death in this country.
Otherwise Fuji would have been dead decades ago.

One cop fires 9 bullets and no other cop felt threatened enough to fire?
It really doesn't look good for this one cop.

Agree and agree.

 

[explorerzip]

I'm pretty sure I have seen TTC videos released to the media/public in the past.

Maybe the TTC changed their policy since then or because we're dealing with a deadly shooting this time? The other TTC videos you've seen show the suspect, but don't show the crime in progress. If the boy got away they might have released the tape.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Toronto street cops are not exactly Navy Seals. Also, they didn't know at the time he didn't have a concealed gun(s) on him.

You mean trained in hand to hand combat?

I don't think it's beyond the police officers' capability to surround one crazy youth brandishing just a 3" knife to surround him and physically take him out when the opportunity arises. I don't mind even if they shoot his knee cap or in his calf. But I think this situation could've been handled differently.

 

[5hummer]

I don't think it's beyond the police officers' capability to surround one crazy youth brandishing just a 3" knife to surround him and physically take him out when the opportunity arises. I don't mind even if they shoot his knee cap or in his calf. But I think this situation could've been handled differently.

You do realize he was holding a knife?
Do you know what kind of damage a 3" knife can do -- this isn't a papercut.

This isn't a video game or movie of the week.

 

[GPIDEAL]

my view of the video shows no officer-in-charge, cops walking around aimlessly, some appearing to be trying to dis-associate themselves from the situation. and then bam-bam-bam etc. the tazer was probably deployed as a cover-all-our-asses step.

You could definitely be right here!


Too bad they couldn't get an ETF negotiator out there in time.

 

[cunning linguist]

You mean trained in hand to hand combat?

I don't think it's beyond the police officers' capability to surround one crazy youth brandishing just a 3" knife to surround him and physically take him out when the opportunity arises. I don't mind even if they shoot his knee cap or in his calf. But I think this situation could've been handled differently.

Cops aren't trained in "hand-to-hand" combat; they're taught legally approved restraining techniques and edged weapon defense, but even minimum wage security guards can learn that. The thing most people will and should take away from an 8 hour edged weapons defense course is that it's very easy to get hurt pretty badly when someone comes at you with a knife.

I thought we already covered this "shoot them in the legs" bullshit? It's a difficult shot to pull off even for marksmen, imagine how difficult it would be for a beat cop who only fires about 60 rounds, once a year to pull off.

 

[5hummer]

You could definitely be right here!


Too bad they couldn't get an ETF negotiator out there in time.

This isn't a movie of the week dude.
One less punk off the street.

 

[cunning linguist]

This could have been prevented with a knife registry.

 

[GPIDEAL]

You do realize he was holding a knife?
Do you know what kind of damage a 3" knife can do -- this isn't a papercut.

This isn't a video game or movie of the week.

I hear you. They are wearing bullet proof vests. There are more than one of them. He's holding a knife. He didn't even attack. You mean not one of the many cops can't shoot him in his leg, then another or a few come from behind? I know it's not a video but he's not lunging at anyone.

 

[GPIDEAL]

This isn't a movie of the week dude.
One less punk off the street.

I know that but come on, at least half a dozen cops and this kid is inside a streetcar. He doesn't go postal on a cop. So they can riddle him with bullets?

 

[GPIDEAL]

Cops aren't trained in "hand-to-hand" combat; they're taught legally approved restraining techniques and edged weapon defense, but even minimum wage security guards can learn that. The thing most people will and should take away from an 8 hour edged weapons defense course is that it's very easy to get hurt pretty badly when someone comes at you with a knife.

I thought we already covered this "shoot them in the legs" bullshit? It's a difficult shot to pull off even for marksmen, imagine how difficult it would be for a beat cop who only fires about 60 rounds, once a year to pull off.

(Not saying cops are trained in hand-to-hand combat but I was asking Rockslinger if that's what he meant by 'Navy Seals').

I've seen a cop take down a guy in a street car before from my car. I doubt he was waving a knife but this kid was small. And I don't think shooting in the leg is a big deal when you have at least six cops that are armed. One guy points and shoots at his leg while the other has him in his sights too.

This isn't a guy racing at a single cop who doesn't have time but to shoot at his torso.

 

[evodevo]

I know that but come on, at least half a dozen cops and this kid is inside a streetcar. He doesn't go postal on a cop. So they can riddle him with bullets?

Not only that - but it's not like the cops arrived and the kid had already harmed or killed any innocent passengers, at which case I could understand the threat.

But he pulled out the knife and told everyone to get off, he kept the driver around but didn't harm him...the driver escaped once the cops arrived.

 

[Mervyn]

I hear you. They are wearing bullet proof vests. There are more than one of them. He's holding a knife. He didn't even attack. You mean not one of the many cops can't shoot him in his leg, then another or a few come from behind? I know it's not a video but he's not lunging at anyone.

Kevlar alone does not stop a knife.

 

[cunning linguist]

(Not saying cops are trained in hand-to-hand combat but I was asking Rockslinger if that's what he meant by 'Navy Seals').

I've seen a cop take down a guy in a street car before from my car. I doubt he was waving a knife but this kid was small. And I don't think shooting in the leg is a big deal when you have at least six cops that are armed. One guy points and shoots at his leg while the other has him in his sights too.

This isn't a guy racing at a single cop who doesn't have time but to shoot at his torso.

Bullet "proof" vests are designed for just that, bullets; knives can penetrate them much easier than bullets can. Knife attacks can turn deadly fairly quickly, Steven Segal movies aren't meant to be viewed as documentaries. "Shooting someone in the leg isn't a big deal" until the shooter misses and hits an innocent bystander instead. Can we drop the Hollywood bullshit already?

Nevermind, I'm either getting trolled or you went full retard:

Not to automatically defend the cops, but unless they know exactly what's going on or how someone violent may behave, anybody with a knife who doesn't stop their approach when told to drop that weapon will be shot by police.

They are trained to shoot at the centre of your body, not at your hand, your leg, arm or between the eyes like you see on television or in the movies.

They want to come home safe and sound to their families, and they're not going to take any chances.

But it does sound like a LOT of shots for a guy armed with a knife.

 

[5hummer]

I hear you. They are wearing bullet proof vests. There are more than one of them. He's holding a knife. He didn't even attack. You mean not one of the many cops can't shoot him in his leg, then another or a few come from behind? I know it's not a video but he's not lunging at anyone.

He is holding a knife (and not dropping it).

Cops are trained to aim at the largest target (which is the chest, not legs).
Not all cops have the aim of Robin Hood.

If the cop misses the leg/head -- where does the bullet go?
Answer: It can ricochet, hit another cop or bystander -- so aim for the chest.

Cops (cannot read minds) do not know if perp will lunge or not.

He is holding a 3" knife, it can do a lot of permanent & fatal damage.

Again, this isn't action movie but real life.