LIVE: Kiev mass riots

[Aardvark154]

The official Russian media PoV. I believe the Fiend in red represents Poland, a usual target of mouth-foaming Russian loathing for centuries.

A classic - - all three of the Russian Boogeymen: Germany, the U.S. and Poland.


* In 1606 the ashes of False Dmitry I were fired from a cannon on the west wall of the Moscow Kremlin "to speed him towards his friends in Poland."

 

[afterhours]

 

[Aardvark154]

I've been told there is an exact Russian-created reason for the limited use of Ukrainian in eastern Ukraine.

In addition to what Oagre wrote in #35 which is more on topic to the actual points you raise. Yet another factor during the Soviet period was the Holodomor of 1932-1933 ("Death by Hunger") in which between two and a half and seven and a half million Ukrainians died.

Although there is disagreement as to the role each of the elements played there is no question that there was some premeditation on the part of Stalin attempting to suppress wealthy peasants "kulaks" and agricultural collectivization and the suppression of Ukrainian Nationalism. Certainly the Soviet authorities did nothing to ease the crisis in fact rejecting outside aid, confiscating household foodstuffs, and preventing the movement of people from the famine affected areas

 

[mandrill]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1f5e9c-860a-11e3-8742-668814928ae4_story.html

Among other nuggets, Lviv has recognized an alternative national governing body. This is starting to look serious. What are the bets that the government requests a little "fraternal assistance" from a neighbouring major power?

 

[afterhours]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1f5e9c-860a-11e3-8742-668814928ae4_story.html

Among other nuggets, Lviv has recognized an alternative national governing body. This is starting to look serious. What are the bets that the government requests a little "fraternal assistance" from a neighbouring major power?

I bet against it. It's too late. People felt the smell of freedom already. You cannot safely rule these people as if they were slaves anymore. Russia does not need a concentration camp at its border and probably less so within its borders. That shit is contagious.

 

[basketcase]

I don't think so.

Ukraine used to have the 3rd largest Nuclear arsenal in the world (Behind USA & Russia). They gave the nukes up and a lot of people signed on the dotted line when that happened.

Here's a quick link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine

The reader's digest form:

Before voting on accession, Ukraine demanded from Russia, the USA, France and the United Kingdom a written statement that these powers undertook to extend the security guarantees to Ukraine.

Russia can't do what they did in Georgia......come in to "defend" their citizens.

Russia sure can do what they did in Georgia. Even if they sent troops to 'protect' the ethnic Russians I doubt the rest of the world would be willing to do much. I'm sure Vlad will at least wait until after Sochi though.

 

[Aardvark154]

IF Russia intervenes, I strongly suspect that afterwards looks a great deal like the election maps posted towards the bottom of page two.

* this was addressed passingly well above.

 

[Aardvark154]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1f5e9c-860a-11e3-8742-668814928ae4_story.html

Among other nuggets, Lviv has recognized an alternative national governing body. This is starting to look serious. What are the bets that the government requests a little "fraternal assistance" from a neighbouring major power?

That is quite interesting.

FWIW, Lviv (Lemberg on nineteenth century maps), was well within Austro-Hungarian Galicia.

 

[mandrill]

I bet against it. It's too late. People felt the smell of freedom already. You cannot safely rule these people as if they were slaves anymore. Russia does not need a concentration camp at its border and probably less so within its borders. That shit is contagious.

Err.... umm... Belarus??

 

[mandrill]

That is quite interesting.

FWIW, Lviv (as Lemberg on nineteenth century maps), was well within Austro-Hungarian Galicia.

Yes, it's about as hardcore non-Russified and anti-Russian as you can get. Only wi Russian control 1939 through the post Glasnost break-up.

 

[afterhours]

Err.... umm... Belarus??

Belarus is quite different from Ukraine. People there are amazingly compliant and happy with their food rations, or so it seemed to me when I visited a few years ago.
Also, note that Ukrainians are rebelling against the ex-con in power, not against a former commie.

In any event, I bet that this genie is not going back into the bottle.

The tricky part is that the president cannot resign without guaranties of immunity - and there is no one who can provide it to him now, as this revolt has no leader. Chances are, he might end up like Chaushesku - and he knows it.

 

[Aardvark154]

Belarus is quite different from Ukraine. People there are amazingly compliant and happy with their food rations, or so it seemed to me when I visited a few years ago.

I wouldn't say that, so much as I'd say they are scared to death of a extremely Stalinistic state.

You never, ever trust strangers. You even teach your children not to show emotion or to complain - which can have truly negative repercussions for marriages generations later.

 

[afterhours]

I wouldn't say that, so much as I'd say they are scared to death of a extremely Stalinistic state.

You never, ever trust strangers. You even teach your children not to show emotion or to complain - which can have truly negative repercussions for marriages generations later.

I agree that EE women are somewhat overrated as life partners for westerners. If I were to generalize, subject to exceptions as always, they are too often either unsophisticated or lack integrity or both.

 

[Aardvark154]

I agree that EE women are somewhat overrated as life partners for westerners. If I were to generalize, subject to exceptions as always, they are too often either unsophisticated or lack integrity or both.

Twenty-somethings I don't know about, but most Russian or Ukrainian women in their 30's or 40's even from fairly small cities are quite culturally sophisticated.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Russian or Ukrainian - Western marriages are either made in Heaven or made in Hell, I've seen very few that were oh we're stumbling along. Unfortunately mine was in the later category, but I've know plenty in the former.

 

[basketcase]

The PM has stepped down and the anti-protest law has been repealed. Hopefully a good sign.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europ...laws-as-pm-steps-down-201412810553417435.html

 

[kkelso]

Have a look at these pictures:

The Anatomy of the Maidan

http://zyalt.livejournal.com/986057.html

Absolutely stunning!

Fantastic images, thanks for posting.

 

[james1961]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25430980

disaster is inevitable...

 

[Aardvark154]

An interesting article - or at least I thought so tying in with the influence the Mongol/Tartar Yoke etc. . . . still has a full 1/2 - 3/4 of a millennia later.


The Saint-Petersburg Times


Ukraine’s Take on Why East Is East

By Michele Berdy


Азиатчина: Eastern backwardness (derogatory)

I came across an interesting exchange online in comments about a series of dramatic photos of demonstrations in Kiev. Someone, presumably Russian, asked with admiration and a dose of condescension: А чего хотят-то бравые украинцы? (And what do those valiant Ukrainians want?) The answer, presumably from one of those valiant Ukrainians, was dry but to the point: Хотим попрощаться с азиатчиной и совком (We want to break with Eastern culture and the Soviet mentality).

Well, that was the gist of it, but азиатчина required a bit of research.

Like all words ending in the suffix –щина/-чина that denote the characteristics of a place, philosophy or people, азиатчина is derogatory. So you know right away that it means “all the bad stuff connected with Asia.” But what bad stuff and where in Asia?

Also by this author: My Resolutions for 2014

One dictionary defines азиатчина neutrally: порядок вещей, образ жизни и способ действий, свойственный азиатам (the way of things, the way of life and behavior characteristic of Asians). But the other dictionaries I consulted are far from neutral and define it as некультурность, культурная отсталость, грубость (lack of culture, cultural backwardness, crudeness). And one dictionary from the turn of the 20th century was extremely clear: противоположные европейским обычаи, т.е. грубые; отсутствие цивилизации (the opposite of European customs — that is, crude; the absence of civilization). Yikes. Makes you appreciate политкорректность (political correctness).

But I still did not know what part of Asia was meant or, more important, what азиатчина connotes to average folks today. So I started asking around. For most people, азиатчина refers to the Eastern parts of the former Russian Empire and Soviet Union — the Caucasus and Central Asia — plus the Eastern cultures surrounding it to the south and west: Turkey and the Middle East. Everyone excludes the Far East (China, Korea, Japan) and Southeast Asia (India, Nepal). Some people exclude Georgia or Armenia, presumably because they are Christian.

And how do they define азиатчина? Replies included: отсутствие прав человека (no human rights); некультурность (uncultured); яркая одежда, эмоциональность, грубость (bright clothing, emotionalism, crude behavior); коррупция, отсутствие свободы (corruption, lack of freedom).

Actually, азиатчина is close to the concept of Orientalism as defined by Edward Said — only largely without the elements of exoticism and sexual fantasy that are part of the Western notion.

As far as I can tell, in the Ukrainian press and blogosphere азиатчина looms large more in terms of political systems. It seems to be associated with a perceived kind of Middle Eastern, mostly Ottoman Turkish, system of governance and culture. After reading many articles, I’d say азиатчина means a nondemocratic system riddled with corruption, bribery and patronage where the rulers reap the financial rewards of power but don’t do much work. Back in 2007, one Russian blogger living in the Eastern part of the country decried the leaders’ вопиющая азиатчина (flagrant Eastern manner) and suggested the main leaders of the party should be called янук-бей (Yanuk-bei), азар-бек (Azar-bek) and близнюк-эфенди (Bliznyuk-effendi).

In Ukraine, азиатчина is often contrasted with some concepts described by neologisms: европейскость (European-ness), русскость (Russian-ness) and украинскость (Ukrainian-ness).

You can tell these are folks trying to figure out who they are and who they aren’t, who they want to become and who they don’t want to be. It’s not a pretty process. I send them best wishes — and a dose of политкорректность.

http://www.sptimes.ru/story/39071

 

[danmand]

Why are you posting articles from Florida about Kiev?

 

[Aardvark154]

Why are you posting articles from Florida about Kiev?

Unsurprisingly you are 8,519 Km/5,293 miles off.

Although the city in Florida was named for the city in Russia.