Yes I did and if you read my comment that you just replied to you would've have seen that I also mentioned they didn't need another center when they signed him Yes I forgot that Willy's new deal doesn't kick in until next season but they still have 3 to1 $10 million forwards compared to Vegas. They needed defencemen. I said free agency is about supply and demand and that time the Leafs already had a good supply of centers. Tavares got other offers because every team needs a number one center and in 2018 he was the prize free agent so obviously he would get high offers. Did you also read my comment that signing him was also for PR because he's the hometown boy. An ideology I never understood with this organization. So no I don't think and never will believe that Dubas and Shanny are geniuses. In fact I still how no clue why they keep Shanascam around. They should have waited to bid on Pietrangelo. Peitrangelo already won a cup in St. Louis before signing with Vegas. Why would he come to Toronto when he can play and live in a no tax state with nice weather all year round and no media barrage everywhere he goes. The big mistake Dubas and Shanhan made was their lack of drafting and developing defencemen. You make excuses that The Prez GM and coach were all rookies at their job. Well guess what, so was John Ferguson Jr when he got hired and he was fired soon after when he didn't have the luxury of six first round draft picks two of them being first overall and the rest being picked no later than 8th overall.
Leafs 2023-2024 Thread
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No, I didn't make an excuse. I stated a fact. Was Dubas not a rookie GM? Was Keefe not a rookie coach? Was Shanny not a rookie running a team? What does JF Jr have to do with all this. He was crap.
Having said all this Leafs made the playoffs every year under Dubas/Keefe/Shanny so there's that and playoffs were never in doubt. Even Vegas missed the playoffs one year. Florida just squeaked in last year. The playoffs Leafs lost plenty of game 7's so there's that also. They aren't a shit show. They have a team that requires some rounding of the edges. They're right in there. They're not the Buffalo, Ottawa, Detroit, Montreal of the league.
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Carolina tonight. They added Guentzel and Kuznetsov. 4th best odds to win the cup along with NYR. They lost 4 straight to Florida last year but every game was by 1 goal and 2 of those were in OT. Svechnikov was also injured and didn't play.
This team is legit. They play tight man to man coverage in all zones. Should be a good game.
2 pts separates Leafs and Hurricanes in the standings. Carolina beat Florida 4-0 in their last game.
This team is legit. They play tight man to man coverage in all zones. Should be a good game.
2 pts separates Leafs and Hurricanes in the standings. Carolina beat Florida 4-0 in their last game.
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Dubas in not a GM. He's an analytics guy. He can't draft for shit and had to give up numerous draft picks to fit players under the cap. Pittsburgh is missing the playoffs this year under him. Shanny has no business being President of anything let alone for an NHL team. And the Leafs did miss the playoffs in their first year at the helm which I have no issue with because they were tanking for Mathews anyways. What does JFJ have to do with this. He was a rookie GM just like Dubas only he didn't have the young talent and draft picks that Dubas was gifted. He didn't have support from ownership especially the chairman. He wasn't allowed to rebuild which was his original plan. Had bad contracts of players with no trade clauses that refused to waive them. He also had to deal with a meddling coach and a 4ht line goon who was buddies with the chairman. And you know what. He was fired after on a few years on the job. Dubas and Shanny have been on the job since 2014 and so far all they got to show for it is one playoff series win. Don't give me this shit they lost plenty of game 7's. They weren't hired to lose in game 7. They were hired to win a cup.
Vegas has only been in the league for 5 seasons now and have made it to 2 Stanley Cup finals and have won one of them and look to repeat this year. So what if they missed the playoffs one of those years.
"under Dubas/Keefe/Shanny" Leafs made the playoffs every year is a correct statement.
Matthews drafted in 2016
Dubas became GM May 11, 2018
Keefe became coach of Leafs November 20, 2019
I never once complained about coach Sheldon Keefe. My point was about the GM and President who have both been there since 2014 even though Dubas was not GM at the beginning he still had input and say as the assistant GM. But under those two they did miss the playoffs. Now look at the Maple Leafs draft history prior to them two being in charge.
Rielly and Kadri who was traded for a journeyman defenseman by Dubas were drafted by Brian Burke
Nylander was drafted by Dave Nonis
Marner was a Mark Hunter draft pick.
Mathews was a no brainer.
So who has panned out so far under these two.
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There's also not retaining Hyman. Although letting Campbell go was the right move so win some lose some.
Dubas traded away plenty of 1st round draft picks and Amirov was unfortunate. Montreal drafted Guhlie right after.
A 6'3 D. Don't know if he's any good as I don't watch Montreal games. So hard to draft without 1st round picks.
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And cap issues were the reason. To be fair how good would Hyman be playing without McDavid
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Hyman without McD is better than anyone else not named Matthews/Marner/Nylander on the Leafs.
He was the best LW for Matthews/Marner they could ever hope for. Perfect fit. Great forchecker. Big and strong on his skates. Great in front of the net. Exceptional defensive awareness. Fast and relentless. I'm not even talking about 50 goals in Edmonton. He was exceptional on the Leafs. The way he was on the Leafs is all they need.
He was great on the PK. He could carry a 3rd line for the Leafs. The Leafs needed to clone him. Not let him go.
This probably goes back to Leafs signing Tavares again cause you know that's how free agency works.
Leafs already drafted their number 1 center 1st overall. They already had a 2nd line center in Kadri.
Does a team really need an 11 million 2nd line center? Even with Covid Tavares is still the 4th highest paid center in his 6th year of his contract. Surely you would expect plenty more to have past him by now. Nylander on the other hand has 96 players pass him in salary on his current contract.
Without Tavares they probably are forced to keep Kadri as their 2nd line center at 4.5 mill. Which would not have been a bad thing. Matthews/Marner could possibly have signed for less without Tavares bumping up the internal pay scale. Without Tavares there would have been money for Hyman. So in a nutshell without Tavares they would have had Kadri and Hyman instead. Their top 5 forwards are set. That should have been the core.
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And that's my point about their drafting. Say what you want about Hyman but he was a 5th round draft pick of the Panthers. When Shanahan took over he stated that their plan was to draft and develop players outside of the first round which they haven't done. Could they not have found a player similar ro him. I mean Knies is pretty good but who else do they have in their system.
Vegas did not build their team through the amateur draft.
They built it with the right free agents and trades.
and the expansion draft of course but that's not the amateur draft.
Hyman was a good trade the Leafs made but they screwed it up by not being able to retain him.
Here's a list of all amateur players drafted by Vegas in their history
https://records.nhl.com/franchises/vegas-golden-knights/draft-selections
I only see Hague on the current roster.
If you can find another one congratulations.
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I'm well aware of how Vegas did it. Their owner wanted a winner right away. They do not have any one of their first round picks still with the organization and yes being able to pluck players from other teams but that's how an expansion draft works. It paid off for them big time and till continues to do so. The Leafs themselves signed free agents and made trades but unlike Vegas they did it completely wrong. Maybe the Leafs should've left Kerfoot unprotected instead of McCann
You kept going on and on about how Leafs should be doing it the Vegas way and then you kept complaining about Leafs terrible drafting so ...
The expansion draft was actually a huge advantage for Vegas unlike the yesteryears of previous expansion teams.
Marchessault the Conn Smythe winner and current leading scorer for Vegas was acquired through the expansion draft.
The irony is he was made available by Florida. You think the Colorado Rockies had it this good?
Even Seattle was not a bottom feeder right from the get go. Other teams, however, learned from their experience with Vegas.
There are also plenty of teams who don't have 4 forwards making over 10 million who don't win the cup.
Some of them don't even make the playoffs.
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I liked it better in the old days when expansion teams would be setting records for losing like Washington, Islanders, etc..they'd have to build and wheel their way to competiveness.
NHL is so hurting for ratings that they need their new teams to be competitive ASAP.
I never said that the Leafs should do it the Vegas way. I said that Vegas has only one player making $10 plus million and the Leafs have 3. I also said Vegas does trading and free agent signings the right way and the Leafs do it wrong. You really don't know how to read do you. You even mentioned that I said the Leafs should've signed John Tavares when I clearly said they shouldn't have.
If you have good scouts and are patient in developing players then you're fine without high draft picks.. Look at the Red Wings during the Bowman and somewhat Holland years.
I love the dubas apologists. I’ve always said Dubas is exactly like JFJ with one exception, Dubas had the keys to the team and JFJ did not. Dubas got fucked on contexts by Marner and Matthews without proving that they’re capable of winning anything. Shanny should have kept Lou as GM and let Dubas go to Colorado. He is the worst. Trading away almost every single pick we had for some rental who wasn’t going to resign with us.
Why just point out Vegas. No other team in the league has more as many 10 million players as Leafs and we all know half of them didn't even make the playoffs and the other 15 didn't win the cup.
I think it hurts ratings, especially in the playoffs. They may be popular in their new market, but that excludes the fans in the other 30 markets. So many of the older teams have established wider fan bases. Fans of the Leafs, Habs, Bruins etc. are everywhere. Most Canadians will follow the other Canadian teams if they advance. Nobody has established any connection or have any history with new teams. The players are pretty much no-names that nobody has ever rooted for.
So when these older teams get eliminated, people lose interest. I think it hurts ratings, especially in the playoffs, when the biggest ratings are supposed to be a given.
