Jays to trade DOC????

[bigdik]

Are you saying the 14 mil this year and the 15 mil next year is NOT a big pay day?

Sadly, no it isn't.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=acBKxRdqYr0U&refer=home

It's an economy of scale. Of course it's a ridiculous amount of money, but it could be MORE ridiculous.

 

[bigdik]

I believe JP made those comments intentionally to accelerate his exit from the Jays. He probably didn't have the blessing of upper management to blab these comments. He's a lame duck GM with no authority to make any deals right now. Beeston should fire him NOW.

It's a business. The Portland/Las Vegas/Mexico City/Tokyo Blue Jays should trade him now. To the RedSox. For a bag of gently used balls, Dice-K, and Julio down by the farking schoolyard Lugo please and thank you. His value to the team is at it's highest right now, and not as a member of the damned team. This franchise is in trouble. They're the farking Pirates. The fans don't care and the owner died.
That domed albatross will be a great place for the Auto Show. Oh wait, maybe not. Dammit, where's the Pontiac booth?

 

[Rockslinger]

This franchise is in trouble.

Sad. No power at 1st base, 3rd base, CF and RF. All the pitchers are injury prone and no closer.

 

[Lucky Pierre]

CNNSI lists the contenders to obtain Doc, should he be moved:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/07/08/halladay.trade/index.html?eref=sihpT1

1. Phillies (Nice 1-2 punch with Doc and Cole Hamels)
2. Angels
3. Giants (This would be the team no one would want to face in the playoffs throwing Lincecum, Halladay and Cain!)
4. Dodgers (Just give them the World Series, if they get Doc)
5. Yankees (Please God, no!)
6. Red Sox (I don't see JP dealing him within division unless it's an absolute boatload of a return, but the Sox become a dynasty with Doc)
7. White Sox
8. Brewers (Makes sense because of Ash connection, but after the Sabathia deal last year, are their remaining top prospects attractive enough to Jays?)
9. Cardinals
10. Mets
11. Rangers

 

[The Oracle]

Sad. No power at 1st base, 3rd base, CF and RF. All the pitchers are injury prone and no closer.

Hey leave Rolen alone. The guy is performing great. So he not a long ball threat. He would more rbi's but wells and rios were never on base in front of him most of the season. I'll take the high average and stellar defence any day of the week.

 

[tribunus]

Great article Lucky Pierre. It's SI, it has cred.

Anyway, we should do the right thing and give him the chance to win elsewhere. And the haul in prospects and major league talent coming back will be huge. It's not everyday the absolute best player at his position is available for trade.

 

[squash500]

Great article Lucky Pierre. It's SI, it has cred.

Anyway, we should do the right thing and give him the chance to win elsewhere. And the haul in prospects and major league talent coming back will be huge. It's not everyday the absolute best player at his position is available for trade.

I agree. Doc should be traded by the end of July.

 

[rajdip34]

If they're going to trade the heart and soul of the franchise they should fire Ricciardi first. He's the one who got us into this mess in the first place and he's the one who promised the Doc that we would be able to compete during his tenure. Doc has been a class act from day one. If he ever gets traded, I'll be at the Rogers Centre for his first game back to give him a more than well deserved standing ovation.

 

[squash500]

IMHO you can't really blame the Jays. They are stuck in the toughest division in baseball.

The Jays should have been placed in the AL central instead. TB, the Red sox and the Yankees are three of the best teams in MLB. What chance do the Jays really have ?

Just too repeat myself. Get rid of Doc asap and get some good young prospects for him.

Once the trade is consummated then hopefully the Jays will develop like the TB Devil Rays did. Where do you guys think Longoria, Upton and Pena came from? All through the farm system!

 

[blueline]

IMHO you can't really blame the Jays. They are stuck in the toughest division in baseball.

The Jays should have been placed in the AL central instead. TB, the Red sox and the Yankees are three of the best teams in MLB. What chance do the Jays really have ?

Just too repeat myself. Get rid of Doc asap and get some good young prospects for him.

Once the trade is consummated then hopefully the Jays will develop like the TB Devil Rays did. Where do you guys think Longoria, Upton and Pena came from? All through the farm system!

Carlos Pena isn't a TBay home grown. He kicked around with a few other teams then the Rays signed him as a FA after Boston let him walk. In fact, he almost didn't even make the Rays out of spring training in 2007. It took an injury on the Rays for him to come back up from the minors.

 

[maurice93]

This makes me think back to 2002 when the Montreal Expos were in the race, and Omar Minaya went and got Bartolo Colon from the Indians. Colon was not going to be a free agent until the end of 2003.

The Indians were in a similar place to where the Jays were now... they were on the treadmill, after there great teams of the mid-late 90's, and decided tor rebuild. Colon was arguably the best pitcher in the American League (certainly top three) at the time of the deal

The Expos traded there three best prospects for Colon:

The Headline Prospect was BRANDON PHILLIPS, who was a top 15 prospect in baseball. Phillips has turned into a really good near All-Star level player, but ultimately the Indians released him before he became any good.

The Next Prospect was CLIFF LEE, 2008 Cy Young Winner. He was quickly rising up the prospect charts after tearing up double A in the first half of the year.

Since Bud Selig would not allow the Expos to take on extra payroll, they had to send the useless Lee Stevens to the Indians. For this the Indians demanded a third prospect.... GRADY SIZEMORE.

Grady was a great athlete, with great BB/K numbers, but his power was not yet really developed. He was still in A Ball, but would develop as a propsect very quickly.

If the Jays got a return like that (PHILLIPS. LEE. SIZEMORE) it would be amazing for them/

That being said it was a somewhat irresponsible move by Minaya. Then again the Expos were being considered for contraction so who the fuck cared. As an Expos fans, we knew the end was coming and wanted to enjoy it now.

 

[maurice93]

Prospect trades don't always work out that well.

Going off my Expo memories, Pedro Marinez, was traded in the 1997 offseason after winning the Cy Young, with a 1.90 ERA, 13 Complete Games, and 305 Strikeouts. He was going to be a free agent after 1998.

Halladay might have similar value, since he is around for two years. He was not as good as Pedro, who from 1997-2003 was one of the greatest pitchers of all time.

The Expos traded Pedro for Carl Pavano and Tony Armas. Carl Pavano had awful mechanics whipping his arm against his body, and was an injury waiting to happen... he had a few good moments which he parlayed into fooling the Expos and then the Yankees.

Tony Armas was a talent, good stuff, but the typical million dollar arm with a 10 cent brain... he then got injured, and lost a bit, and his career went nowhere.. the Pirates thought it would be smart to give 3M a year for a couple of years.. and he did nothing.

Personally, I think there is so much unpredicatability with young arms and how they develop, that you trade Halladay for position prospects as the key of the deal. They are much more predicatable.

 

[mandrill]

It sure looks as if they are sending out the signals that Doc is on the market. Question is: Who could they get for him that would be worth his value. The guy is a perennial Cy contender and the best pitcher the organization has ever had. They would need 3 bona fide stars in return or 1 superstar.

I don't think any contenders are giving that kind of value away. And why would we need prospects??!! C'mon! This organization has been "rebuilding" for 15 years!

 

[Captain Fantastic]

It sure looks as if they are sending out the signals that Doc is on the market. Question is: Who could they get for him that would be worth his value. The guy is a perennial Cy contender and the best pitcher the organization has ever had. They would need 3 bona fide stars in return or 1 superstar.

I don't think any contenders are giving that kind of value away. And why would we need prospects??!! C'mon! This organization has been "rebuilding" for 15 years!

I think if the Jays are convinced that Doc's leaving after 2010 and they HAVE to trade him or else only get two draft picks (and even bigger crapshoot) the larger question is: Do you really want JP Ricciardi and his staff choosing the prospects? We're talking about trading the at worst second best starter in all of baseball of the past 5 years - you have to absolutely hit a home run on any deal for Halladay.

I'd stomach (cause I don't like) the idea more if the Jays somehow find a way of attaching one of the big contracts - Wells, Rios - as part of the trade while still getting true, ML ready blue-chippers in return.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

IMHO you can't really blame the Jays. They are stuck in the toughest division in baseball.

The Jays should have been placed in the AL central instead. TB, the Red sox and the Yankees are three of the best teams in MLB. What chance do the Jays really have ?

The JP excuse. How enabling.

Just too repeat myself. Get rid of Doc asap and get some good young prospects for him.

Since you say "asap", does that mean you want JP to choose the prospects?

Once the trade is consummated then hopefully the Jays will develop like the TB Devil Rays did. Where do you guys think Longoria, Upton and Pena came from? All through the farm system!

With #1 overall picks. Meaning that the Jays would have to be the worst team in baseball, year-in and year out, for about 5 years just to have a shot at the Uptons and Longorias. I don't like that 5-year plan, JP Jr...

As for Pena, like blueline stated, he had played for five organizations before joining the Rays. Every team in baseball - including the Jays - could have signed him for the ML minimum.

 

[mandrill]

I'd stomach (cause I don't like) the idea more if the Jays somehow find a way of attaching one of the big contracts - Wells, Rios - as part of the trade while still getting true, ML ready blue-chippers in return.

Well, first I'd like to figure out what the issue is with Wells and Rios. They have been reasonable value for $ up until this year and Rios is still a decent producer, albeit with a lower average. He is on track to hit 20 HR and over 80 RBI this year. Not star calibre, but very decent for an "off year".

I would hate to see these guys go and rebound to hit .320/ 35/ 110 next year for another team.

 

[mandrill]

I think if the Jays are convinced that Doc's leaving after 2010 and they HAVE to trade him or else only get two draft picks (and even bigger crapshoot) the larger question is: Do you really want JP Ricciardi and his staff choosing the prospects? We're talking about trading the at worst second best starter in all of baseball of the past 5 years - you have to absolutely hit a home run on any deal for Halladay.

The complicating factor is that Doc gets to veto any deal he doesn't like. At this point in his career, he's probably thinking about a shot at the World Series with a blue chip contender. A run of team successes would make him an eventual candidate for the HoF.

So we all know who those perennial contenders are, huh? Dodgers, Angels, Bosox and "You know who".

 

[shack]

The JP excuse. How enabling.

It is valid, though.

 

[shack]

Well, first I'd like to figure out what the issue is with Wells and Rios.

Vern's all the way up to .264.

 

[mandrill]

Go back a few more years when the 'Spos made a splash by acquiring Mark Langston for a couple of who?'s and a tall, gawky-looking kid named Randy Johnson. Not sure if anyone's heard of him.

Aaah, the might-have-beens. The Unit and Pedro as a back to back 1-2 would have made history!