It's All Over

[Vancouver Femme Fatale]

Now You Fellows Know...

why I hang out with the boys and not the girls.

I cannot *stand* that twisted demand for "respect" women dump on men, when, in reality, they're protecting their right to be judgemental without censure or being called on their arrogance and close-mindedness.

Life is short. Nobody has the right to make other people feel bad for not validating their own beliefs. Disagree, sure. Agree to disagree. But things like demeaning a friend 'for their own good' because they have a different perspective? Acting like a spoiled little girl while demanding the respect due a grown woman? Women do this far, far too often, and frankly, it puts me off 51% of the population.

Having said all that...I *do* like the clothes, shoes and other feminine accoutrements; Pussy Power should used not to crush, but rather to become a more cultured, thoughtful and generous person.

 

[drlove]

I cannot *stand* that twisted demand for "respect" women dump on men, when, in reality, they're protecting their right to be judgemental without censure or being called on their arrogance and close-mindedness.

Exactly. This reminds me of another thing that was said by my friend. Apparently, she equates seeing escorts with not respecting women. Nothing could be further from the truth, yet in her warped view of the world since I don't "respect" women, she doesn't respect me. Go figure.

 

[WhaWhaWha]

What I'm thinking about doing is waiting a couple of weeks to let things cool down. Then if I haven't heard from her, I will send her an e-mail (since I find I express myself better through the written word) letting her know about some deeply personal reasons behind how I wound up in the hobby. I will also invite her to call me to discuss the matter more in depth. Hopefully, this will help her to understand where I'm coming from.

Writing to her is a good idea. Letting her know about your deep personal issues also a good idea. Waiting two weeks to do this is not a good idea.

Two weeks is the difference between a disagreement and a total seperation.

Two weeks of no contact followed by a heartfelt plea for more attention to this matter transforms you from reconciler to stalker.

Tell her now. The sooner the better. You may never agree but time will not make this better. It will give her two weeks to have the non-hobbying friends and family in her life reaffirm a thousand times that she is right. By the time those two weeks are up you will be treated like a criminal. Maybe not regarded as such, but it will become her perogative, and in the eyes of her like-minded support-network, her duty to treat you as a threat.

Your approaches will be ignored, or worse. Documented and eventually used against you when she takes out her first TRO.

 

[drlove]

Writing to her is a good idea. Letting her know about your deep personal issues also a good idea. Waiting two weeks to do this is not a good idea.

Two weeks is the difference between a disagreement and a total seperation.

Two weeks of no contact followed by a heartfelt plea for more attention to this matter transforms you from reconciler to stalker.

Tell her now. The sooner the better. You may never agree but time will not make this better. It will give her two weeks to have the non-hobbying friends and family in her life reaffirm a thousand times that she is right. By the time those two weeks are up you will be treated like a criminal. Maybe not regarded as such, but it will become her perogative, and in the eyes of her like-minded support-network, her duty to treat you as a threat.

Your approaches will be ignored, or worse. Documented and eventually used against you when she takes out her first TRO.

I never thought of it that way before. Maybe I'll give it a few extra days to see if she phones me or anything, and then I'll write. However, if she has been influenced by her friends to believe that she is in the right and I am in the wrong, I wonder if the e-mail will make any concrete difference. It seems like it will be accepted as a token gesture on my part, and probably ignored.

 

[WhaWhaWha]

Some legal advice.

If you put anything in writing, let it strictly pertain to your feelings of love of and dedication to her. Your desire to work things out and discuss things in a calm rational manner.

Do NOT under any circumstances write anything or email anything about hobbying, the sex trade, etc... that can be used against you in court.

 

[Vancouver Femme Fatale]

Apparently, she equates seeing escorts with not respecting women.

As I always say, "The only thing worse than being 'oppressed by the Patriarchy' is being bitch-slapped by the Matriarchy".

Lemme guess...she'd no doubt respect my right to do with my body what I will, and to forge my own destiny...except for the part where I'm a nasty whore...

 

[drlove]

As I always say, "The only thing worse than being 'oppressed by the Patriarchy' is being bitch-slapped by the Matriarchy".

Lemme guess...she'd no doubt respect my right to do with my body what I will, and to forge my own destiny...except for the part where I'm a nasty whore...

Damn, you're good. It's like your reading her mind.

 

[massman]

Exactly. This reminds me of another thing that was said by my friend. Apparently, she equates seeing escorts with not respecting women. Nothing could be further from the truth, yet in her warped view of the world since I don't "respect" women, she doesn't respect me. Go figure.

I think you hit the nail on the head here doc. Religious or moral arguments aside, in her mind you paying for sex is reducing a woman to a warm wet orifice that can be bought for money. She is worried that you apply the same objectification to all women. THis is the mainstream society view. Hobbyists are pervs, SPs are victims, trapped in a hopeless situation. Whereas from your point of view, you see the escort client interaction as on occurring between two consenting, intelligent adults. WHile the sevices provided are intimate, they are provided for good remuneration, and wihtout any coersion. For many women the idea of multiple sexual partners is upsetting, and they think that it must be awful to be an escort and that "Johns" subjugate and humiliate these women. Few think that many women have sex with many different men for "free". Most of the SPs we deal with in this community are intelligent, independent, and make a good income from making others happy. Sure there is a seedier side just barely around the corner, but I think that most of us, at least here, avoid those situations where the SP is less than willing to be in the biz. YOu might try explaining this to her when she calms down. She thought of you as a man who respected women, that image is crushed. YOu might (if you are lucky) try to rebuild it.

 

[homonger]

To repeat what I said earlier, F**K her. You don't need a friend like this.

 

[drlove]

Do NOT under any circumstances write anything or email anything about hobbying, the sex trade, etc... that can be used against you in court.

They can do that?? I only see outcalls, so how is discussing how I became involved with escorts going to get me in trouble??

 

[zanner69]

They can do that?? I only see outcalls, so how is discussing how I became involved with escorts going to get me in trouble??

hey drlove - with all that you have mentioned on this thread about your LF - I don't see how you can make her understand where you are coming from when she is so much rooted in your views?

 

[WhaWhaWha]

Once again, all good things to discuss in person if the opportunity presents itself. Not to put into writing. There is still an incredible amount of isolation and seperation necessary between the sex-trading and non-trading public in order to remain in the good graces of the law abiding. A lot of the world sits on the fence on this.

In John School a number of the attendees walk away telling themselves and others not in authority that they will continue to see prostitutes. That they know where to draw the line so no one is oppressed or violated. VFF uses words like "Whore" for empowerment. Your SO could bounce these attitudes right back without embellishment; just for the purposes of oppression -- and succeed.

You are unlikely to reform anyone. Focus on you and her. Save the other topic for when she is calm and ready; if that ever happens.

 

[Vancouver Femme Fatale]

It's like your reading her mind.

One must know the enemy to fight effectively; and the fight to be myself is the most important I'll ever face.

 

[Vancouver Femme Fatale]

Mmmmmaybe....

 

[sarasota]

...Have I become so firmly entrenched in this subculture (the commercialization of sex) that I have become desensitized to the intrinsic value or sacredness that civillian women attatch to it?

I had a friend who was a gal and she had a bunch of other female friends. They all screwed everything that walked, but did not charge for it. They were fun to be around and good people. I remember one day some were telling others not to trust married men. That those type of men will tell you they are going to get a divorce but never do. I've also known other women who slept around quite a bit, too. My guess is, if some knew I did this they would be upset.


When you watch all the silly, sometimes nasty, nonsense things people do.....

 

[PHNINE]

Some legal advice.

If you put anything in writing, let it strictly pertain to your feelings of love of and dedication to her. Your desire to work things out and discuss things in a calm rational manner.

Do NOT under any circumstances write anything or email anything about hobbying, the sex trade, etc... that can be used against you in court.

I was just about to say the same thing after reading Doc was going to write an email to her. But you beat me to it Wha. Do not admit in plain words to participating in this hobby. Do not write anything you wouldn't want your mother to see for example. Just write it under the impression that it will be in court or in the newspaper, just so that way you know you are covering your ass. All about saying what you have to say indirectly. Good luck buddy, may the Pooning force be with you...

 

[Svend]

Unfortunately in her mind, the idea of "seeing prostitutes" as she put it goes against her values, morals and principles. She is religious, but more than that, I think she has lived a very sheltered life in some respects.

I think it's good to keep the conversation going, let her get used to the idea a bit more.
It looks like you're judging her and her values in the same way she is, try to respect her faith and upbringing and see things from her point of view.

 

[the shrink]

Yes, That is the reason why.

if you didnt realise that 99.9999% of all women in the world hate the fact that there is prostitution then now you do. the other .000001% that think its ok are in the sex industry themselves one way or another.

you need to meet more women.

 

[PHNINE]

if you didnt realise that 99.9999% of all women in the world hate the fact that there is prostitution then now you do. the other .000001% that think its ok are in the sex industry themselves one way or another.

you need to meet more women.

The percentage of women working the sex industry is way higher then .000001%.

And leave the guy alone, it is tough enough he had to lose a friend let alone hear your words of non-advice, Shrink.

 

[papasmerf]

The percentage of women working the sex industry is way higher then .000001%.

And leave the guy alone, it is tough enough he had to lose a friend let alone hear your words of non-advice, Shrink.

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