Allegra Escorts Collective

Israel at war

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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What plan do you think would work better towards those same goals then, valcazar?
Clearly you must think there is a better strategy that you have yet to share.
Than voting in Trump?
Yes.
Not doing that.
That's a better strategy.

Straw man.
Of course you can be different but no better.
That's not what I asked.
Do you honestly think that "no better" is the only option if someone is different?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
38,703
80,114
113
My clear opinion has always been this. I do not believe there will be a One State solution. I do not believe there will be a Two State solution. I do not believe there can be a brokered long lasting peace agreement.

There will only be a winner, and a loser. So If I have to pick between the two sides, I pick Israel for long term peace with neighbours in the region as they have already proven to be able to make treaties last and broker more. Remember this war was started to prevent the Saudi peace deal.

The Palestinians have only continued to embrace terror, assassination of state heads, and constant war. They won't stop.
I do appreciate that you articulate your pro-genocide/pro-ethnic cleansing position so clearly.

See above for the rest. Stop listening to paid govt shills and pundits, and understand how people on the ground actually think. And live day to day.
It sometimes amazes me that you are so close to getting it - see your response to Kautilya - and yet come up with what you do.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,988
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I do appreciate that you articulate your pro-genocide/pro-ethnic cleansing position so clearly.



It sometimes amazes me that you are so close to getting it - see your response to Kautilya - and yet come up with what you do.
If neither side will give, what's the solution. No waffling. Lay it out or stop yapping.

And again with the faked up superiority complex to hide a lack of real thinking. Its a tired old thing.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Than voting in Trump?
Yes.
Not doing that.
That's a better strategy.
Based on what rationale?
Your feelies?

That's not what I asked.
Do you honestly think that "no better" is the only option if someone is different?
I think this genocide will be over before the election.
Are you arguing that electing rump means he will coerce Netanyahu or Ben Gvir or whoever is leading Israel in November to commit a far worse genocide?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,988
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People opposed to this particular war, are against it because it is a genocide. The protestors are worried about the Palestinians and the oppression, apartheid and genocide they are suffering. Many protestors are infact Palestinians, or are from Muslim nations, or are anti-Zionist Jewish people who feel personally about this.

When it comes to money the opposition is two fold.

A) The money comes from lobby groups like AIPAC that control and manipulate our governments in favour of a foreign state.
B) Consequently our governments not only help Israel at forums such as the UN by vetoing anything harmful to Israel, but also send billions in aid that is being used against the Palestinians.

So again, the call is to help Palestinians. It is however not a demand for that money to be used here instead for better social services. That is something the protestors may agree with if you ask them, but that is not what is in their minds when they go out there to protest, and it is not why they protest.

There are of course some far right wing individuals who also support Palestinians, but they don't hold any love for the Palestinians. They just hate Jews more. So we can disregard them as they are in the fringe minority.

I believe yours is an incorrect characterization of the motives of the protestors because you have conflated your own motives, with that of the protestors. If you talked to anyone who is pro-Palestinian the last thing you will hear from them is their worry that the govt. is not providing social services.
Your social media feed algorithms are feeding you what you want to hear. There is an entire right wing anti war population that don't give a rat's ass about Israel or the Palestinians.

Go ahead. Try a search. See what comes up.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
105,483
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Your social media feed algorithms are feeding you what you want to hear. There is an entire right wing anti war population that don't give a rat's ass about Israel or the Palestinians.

Go ahead. Try a search. See what comes up.
Ah yes, the white supremacist, libertarian wing of MAGA.
The boogaloo bois that will lead the US through revolution to shangri la.

The vast majority of protest for Palestinians have been the mainstream and liberals.




 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Yes. I know there is a right wing anti-war group - and that is what I mentioned in my first response to you. They are the same ones who do not want the US to give aid to Ukraine. But they also support Russia which is why we dont take them seriously either.
You will find lots of centrists and more opposed to all military aid. And don't care about any of the sides. That's isolationism. You don't get to over 60% anti war without a significant portion of GOP viters. And more than you think.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,988
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Well, isolationism is more than aid. But regardless of that, I dont understand what 60% anti-war means. Was there a poll where 60% of those polled did not want war? Because not wanting war is also different from being anti-war. I dont want war either. But sometimes I agree war is necessary, and in many other cases, inevitable. Anti-war is that we should not act even to help, regardless of what happens in another country and that is not what most people advocate for.
Polling shows over 60 do not support what's going on in Israel. You don't get there without the GOP voters. As well remember who was against sending military aid to Israel in Congress and who voted for it. Polling for sending aid to Ukraine is also steadily dropping.

The Average US citizen does not want to pay for foreign wars anymore. For varying reasons.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,864
11,786
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Toronto
Being annoying is the point. Being disruptive, annoying, and a nuisance is how protests should be.
Completely wrong. We have laws for a reason.

The point of protest is to be heard, not to disrupt. Civilized people protest and respect other rights at the same time. Hooligans disrupt. Seeing as these people are protesting on behalf of Hamas it's not surprising that they don't care about other people's rights. Their love language is violence.

Wikipedia:
Public nuisance is actually a crime but can also give rise to a claim in tort if the crime committed endangered a section of the community or community as a whole.

Microsoft Word - Alastair_Lucas-EN.docx (cirl.ca)
Historically, the common law developed doctrine to protect health and safety of the general public. The Supreme Court of Canada has summed it up as “any activity which unreasonably interferes with the public’s interest in questions of health, safety, morality, comfort or inconvenience.”1

Criminal Code of Canada - section 180(1) - Common nuisance (criminal-code.ca)
Section 180(1) of the Criminal Code of Canada prohibits anyone from committing a common nuisance that endangers the lives, safety, or health of the public, or causes physical injury to any person. This section is designed to protect the public from various forms of misconduct that may pose a risk to their well-being or cause them harm. A common nuisance is anything that may cause harm, injury, inconvenience, or material losses to the public. An individual who commits a common nuisance in Canada is guilty of an indictable offense and may face imprisonment for a maximum term of two years. This provision applies to any individual regardless of social status, gender, or race. The section provides that actions like spreading viruses or diseases, leaving dangerous obstacles on public roads, and hosting events that block public places are examples of committing a common nuisance. The provision is broad and applies to a wide range of acts or omissions that may harm the public, thereby creating a safer and healthier environment for Canadians.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
38,703
80,114
113
Now a failure to act after such intense protests, will eventually result in violence. Like what happened during George Floyd. In cases like that the violence unfortunately and counter intuitively becomes necessary, although illegal, without which no one would give a fuck. The goal is to not let it get to that, listen to people and act NOW.
You are going to have to clarify that.
Because it really comes across as "we will protest peacefully, but if you don't give in to our demands, we will protest violently".
Also that you think the George Floyd protests turned violent because various governments didn't do what the protesters demanded.

So I would like you to clarify both of those things.

1) Are you saying that if these protests don't result in action the protesters like, they will become illegally violent and that is the correct and necessary thing for them to do?
2) Are you saying that you think this is what happened in 2020?
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts