Israel at war

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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I am saying the Gaza Ministry of Health is neutral.
That is impossible no matter how often you want to repeat it. Hamas controls everything in Gaza. Most importantly to them, is that they control the message.

The UN does not accept their numbers, they produce their own.
Something else you can repeat as often as you like.

As I proved in another post, the deviation is a mere 2.7% over the last 15 years through multiple wars and conflicts. Therefore they are reliable and neutral
That only proves that the numbers are so close because they accept the numbers given to them by Hamas Health at face value.

b) Gazans being more critical of Hamas, is nothing to write home about.
You can be dismissive, as you usually are when you don't want to answer something, but there must be a reason for the discrepancy. That was the point of the poll.

The reason is because Gazans are getting sick and tired of what Hamas is putting them through. Poverty, oppression, misappropriated aid and war and death.
They are being lead by Hamas................right down the garden path.

Gazans are fed up with Hamas. Actually speaking out against Hamas is a first and bold step. There is more chance of insurrection than a Hamas victory.

That is the meaning of the poll.
 

shack

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I agreed/admitted, that a pro-Palestinian position, and an anti-terrorism position, such as mine, is the neutral position.
So being pro-Palestinian and not pro-Israel is neutral? Whatever you're selling, nobody is buying. That was an insane comment.

And if you are anti-terror and Hamas is terror and you hate Hamas, surely you want them to surrender. Getting rid of Hamas and thereby ending the war is the best outcome for someone pro-Palestinian.

Do you want Hamas to surrender?
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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Israeli defence minister outlines new phase in Gaza war (msn.com)


CAIRO/GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) -Defence Minister Yoav Gallant on Thursday outlined a new stage of Israel's war in Gaza: a more targeted approach in the north and further pursuit of Hamas leaders in the south while Israel seeks to free remaining hostages held by Hamas.

Under international pressure to shift to less intense combat operations and in the face of economic challenges, Israel has been drawing down its forces in Gaza to allow thousands of reservists to return to their jobs.
Gallant said in a statement that operations in the north would include raids, demolishing tunnels, air and ground strikes, and special forces operations.
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In the south, where most of Gaza's 2.3 million population now live in tents and other temporary shelters, the focus would be on wiping out Hamas leaders and rescuing some 130 Israeli hostages remaining of some 240 abducted on Oct. 7.
After the war Hamas would no longer control Gaza, Gallant said, adding that the enclave would be run by Palestinian bodies so long as there was no threat to Israel.

Aiming to help prevent the conflict from expanding, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken was set to travel on Thursday to the Middle East for a week of diplomacy, the State Department said.
Earlier on Thursday Israeli shelling of the Gaza Strip killed more than 20 Palestinians, including 16 in Khan Younis in a southern coastal area packed with people who had fled from other parts of the enclave, Gaza health officials said.
Among the dead were nine children, they said. Separately five Palestinians were killed in an Israeli airstrike on a car in Al-Nusseirat refugee camp, health officials told Reuters. Gaza residents said Israeli planes and tanks had also bombarded two other refugee camps, prompting many to head south.
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Israel's war against Hamas is nearing the three-month mark amid international concern that the conflict is spreading beyond Gaza, drawing in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, Hezbollah forces on the Lebanon-Israel border, and Red Sea shipping lanes.
The concern grew after a drone strike on Tuesday killed Hamas deputy leader Saleh al-Arouri in Lebanon's capital Beirut. He was buried in the Palestinian camp of Shatila in the city on Thursday, amid throngs of mourners launching volleys of gunfire.

Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah vowed on Wednesday that his powerful Iran-backed Shi'ite militia "cannot be silent" following the killing, but he made no concrete threats to act against Israel in support of Hamas.
Hezbollah has been embroiled in nearly daily exchanges of shelling with Israel across Lebanon's southern border since the Gaza war began.
Israel neither confirmed nor denied assassinating Arouri. It has promised to annihilate Hamas following the Islamist group's assault in southern Israel on Oct. 7 in which Israel says 1,200 people were killed.
Israel's ground and air blitz has laid waste to Gaza. The total recorded Palestinian death toll had reached 22,438 by Thursday - almost 1% of its 2.3 million population, the Gaza health ministry said.
Israel has said it has killed 8,000 fighters in Gaza.
Adding to the violence in the region, two explosions on Wednesday killed nearly 100 people during a memorial ceremony for the late Iranian General Qasem Soleimani at the cemetery in southeastern Iran where he is buried. The militant Sunni Muslim group Islamic State claimed responsibility.
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In Thursday's reported strike in Al-Mawasi on the western side of Khan Younis, Israeli shells landed near tents erected in the area by displaced people, health ministry officials said.
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Hezbollah affiliated civil defence member sprays water at a damaged site in the aftermath of what security sources said was an Israeli drone strike in Beirut's southern suburbs of Dahiyeh, Lebanon January 3, 2024. REUTERS/Mohamed Azakir© Thomson Reuters
Footage on Palestinian media showed several bodies wrapped in blankets inside a hospital morgue in Khan Younis.
"Nowhere is safe in Gaza. Wherever you go, there are strikes. In the country, next to the camps, in Al-Mawasi. There is no safe space," said Bahaa Abu Hatab, the brother of one of the dead.
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The Palestinian Red Crescent said its headquarters in Khan Younis was hit, killing one person and wounding others.
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In its daily briefing, the Israeli military said Israeli warplanes killed three Hamas militants who had tried to detonate explosive next to ground troops, and Israeli soldiers killed two more.
Later the military said soldiers had destroyed an underground military compound on the Gaza Strip coast with a weapons cache including mortars, grenades, and RPG missiles.

MUD ADDS TO MISERY
Israeli bombardments have flattened much of the densely populated enclave and created a humanitarian disaster. Most Gazans have been left homeless, with food shortages threatening famine.
On Thursday, people poured out of Al-Bureij, Al-Maghazi and Al-Nusseirat refugee camps following attacks, with some families riding on donkey carts loaded with mattresses, luggage and children. Rain has turned earth to mud, adding to the misery.
Over the course of the war, the Israeli military has expressed regret for civilian deaths but it accuses Hamas of operating in densely populated areas and using civilians as human shields, a charge the group denies.
 
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mandrill

monkey
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Right, but "Wipe out Hamas" may or may not mean that to lots of people.
You have people in this very thread (let alone in Israel) saying you can't do what you are suggesting above - you have to kill the local postmaster and schoolteacher as well.
And, as you say, if Israel doesn't like what happens to the administration they install, they reserve the right to invade again.
Which mirrors the whole lead up to October 7.
Israel left, Hamas got elected.
Israel didn't like it, but didn't invade (there was hardly peace, though).
Oct 7 happens, and we have the shit show we are seeing now.

Remember that during the whole time Hamas existed, there were people in Israel saying that Hamas being elected was enough reason to invade again.
As far as they are concerned, Hamas proved them right on October 7, so next time Israel shouldn't wait until October 7 - if a group with any similarity to Hamas was elected, they should be overthrown immediately.
Or you can just not allow Palestinians to elect their own government.

None of this is easy, or simple, or obvious, and no matter how much some people want to argue that if you just kill enough people it will all work out, colour me unconvinced.
post #13,124
 

shack

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It was happening before oct 7th been going on for years, oct 7th was just one blowback
This current war started with the Oct. 7 terror attack. By an amazing coincidence, it's called the Oct.7 War.

It's like a similar coincidence where Lou Gehrig caught the disease that had his name.

BTW, it's nice to see you supporting terrorist attacks.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Iran says it was a drone, that limits who it could have been to pretty much one country.

Israel is a threat to world peace.
Islamic State.

Your insightful analysis is as accurate always.

Which means you are totally off base, wrong, not even close, incorrect, false, clueless, inaccurate and driven by blind hatred.

You are as accurate as the Hamas rocket that hit it's own hospital.

Are you going to fix your post so it says that "Islam is a threat to world peace"? BTW, have you condemned this act of terror. We know how much you despise acts of terror.
 
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basketcase

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Israel’s changing of tactic is precisely due to their inability to root out hamas by occupying all critical grounds. Now the strain on logistics and economy is too much to carry on, they go for a more frugal approach. The so called precision is simply assassinating high ranking hamas leaders, which doesnt work because hamas is not organized like that. Heck israel killed the founder of hamas and it didnt do any damage to the organization.
And explanation

 
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mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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Yes the only neutral position is being pro-Palestinian and anti-terrorism. Being pro-Israel simply means, you support genocide, and are in defence of a toxic, non-inclusive ideology like Zionism. Being pro-Palestinian means you want the actual victims in this conflict to get justice.

No I don't want Hamas to surrender, as of now. I want them to do one of two things - a) Fight the Israelis, but only the IDF. b) Stop any and all attacks on Israeli civilians. The only time I would support surrender, is if Israel stops attacks and makes genuine attempts to work for Palestinian statehood. Kowtowing to colonialism, is not something anyone should support. It is for the same reason I support Ukraine, and not Russia, despite Russia being friendly with India.
Yeah, I'm sure Hamas will do exactly what you suggest starting right away.

Fatuous nonsense.
 
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nottyboi

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Because this way, it will take so long that you still get to see 500,000 Palestinians die.

All of your suggestions are idiotic. All of them result in more deaths in gaza.

Israel will not agree to a ceasefire at this point.

So the only two realistic options are, Hamas keeps fighting and the violence goes on indefinitely or Hamas surrenders.

Thus far your choice has always meant that you endorse the deaths of 500,000 Palestinians.
500K dead palis is better then 4m dead Palis.
 

basketcase

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Israel has been the military occupying power for 75 years.
They choose when the occupation ends, not the victims of the occupation.
And once again you deny the whole existence of Israel and you pretend that Arabs are incapable of being capable of making their own decisions like the true racist you are.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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The constantly evaporating rape story
The constantly evaporating "Islam is a religion of peace" story.

There are whole groups of people that they'd love to kill just for taking part in some of the activities that we take for granted here. I don't know how you can support them.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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This current war started with the Oct. 7 terror attack. By an amazing coincidence, it's called the Oct.7 War.

It's like a similar coincidence where Lou Gehrig caught the disease that had his name.

BTW, it's nice to see you supporting terrorist attacks.
Its not pretty but I don't see how they had any other reasonable options. Please advise of the reasonable solution I somehow missed.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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This current war started with the Oct. 7 terror attack. By an amazing coincidence, it's called the Oct.7 War.

It's like a similar coincidence where Lou Gehrig caught the disease that had his name.

BTW, it's nice to see you supporting terrorist attacks.
Only idiots actually believe that. 🤣🧐
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Delusional
Prove it. Show the documentation of this being official Israeli government policy. Let's see the piece of paper, Mr. one word on a repeat loop.

Maybe change your name to Kla d'uhh. (Shack of sit is still better. I hope you keep using it.)
 
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mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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As fatuous as the question or claiming that the IDF only attacks Hamas, and does not mass murder and genocide the Palestinians.
Christianity is/was far more violent than Islam ever was. Just ask the Jews.
That's weird. No Christians ever flew a jet into a hi rise office building in Teheran or Dubai.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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Its not pretty but I don't see how they had any other reasonable options. Please advise of the reasonable solution I somehow missed.
Hmm, I dunno. Maybe if they hadn't gang-raped the women and killed the little babies?
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
79,054
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Israel’s changing of tactic is precisely due to their inability to root out hamas by occupying all critical grounds. Now the strain on logistics and economy is too much to carry on, they go for a more frugal approach. The so called precision is simply assassinating high ranking hamas leaders, which doesnt work because hamas is not organized like that. Heck israel killed the founder of hamas and it didnt do any damage to the organization.
Remember I posted that map yesterday showing Israel holding about 90% of Gaza City?

Yup. They got that 90% by killing Hamas.

You're about as quaint as Frankie telling us that Israel would give up and let the Palestinians win if enough people demonstrate against Israel in the West. So get your placard and button up that overcoat!
 
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