No. They are withdrawn because they are not needed because Hamas is being beaten far more quickly than anyone predicted.
Israel at war
- Thread starter Butler1000
- Start date
The IDF controls most of Gaza City and Khan Yunis and is tightening the noose on Hamas block by block.
Then the IDF will move south to Rafa and do the same thing.
If Hamas was winning, Israel would be pushed back to the fence.
Agreed.
Hamas in particular seems very uninterested in any kind of real political solution either.
That's a very limited view of what "end of apartheid and occupation" means and would lead to.
But yes, "end of apartheid and occupation" is a slogan - much like "wipe out Hamas" that tells people very little about what that would actually mean or look like.
This is my whole point - among the major figures on both sides right now I see very little serious discussion of what the future would look like and even LESS of what it would take to get there and the incredibly difficult path involved.
The thinking of someone who doesn’t know the difference between tactical and strategic. You can’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
Because I hadn't thought of my Germany example then and assumed it would be a multi generational task.
The hierarchy annihilated and the armed faction neutralized.
Let's play it through. If Israel installs the "Completely reasonable and totally co existent Arab Gaza government" and an armed Islamic faction rises up and overthrows this administration, what does Israel do?..... Re enter Gaza to re impose their puppet administration?
Probably.
Okay. Good points.
The Allies killed or imprisoned the higher-ups and more notorious Nazis, but the entire administrative apparatus was composed of superficially pro Nazi individuals and the Allies simply retained these while keeping a large garrison. One must then assume that most of the Nazi lower-downs were either Nazis in name only or eager to trim their sails to accomodate the prevailing wind. Question of fact becomes how much of the Gaza adminstration is similar and how much is hard-core Islamic extremist.
No one knows if the Nazi Germany simile is actually workable. It's simply the best comparison I can think of.
See my concession above. I had in mind the idea of killing or detaining Yahya and his high echelon buddies. The local postmaster and schoolteacher are probably Hamas as well, but are you really going to detain them and put them on trial for war crimes?.... Probably you're just going to put the fear of God (or Yahweh) into them and tell them that the old ways are gone forever.
I admit there's going to be a helluva lot of clean-up and rebuild for the Gaza folk to do when the IDF gets through. But they'll get it done. Just like the Germans in 1945.
I can see how angry it must be that they support human rights.
Runs counter to your belief that all Palestinians are vermin that need to be exterminated.
Fixed your post, as you call for more genocide and I call for a ceasefire.
Oh, we found out why you want a surrender and not a ceasefire.
Right, but "Wipe out Hamas" may or may not mean that to lots of people.
You have people in this very thread (let alone in Israel) saying you can't do what you are suggesting above - you have to kill the local postmaster and schoolteacher as well.
And, as you say, if Israel doesn't like what happens to the administration they install, they reserve the right to invade again.
Which mirrors the whole lead up to October 7.
Israel left, Hamas got elected.
Israel didn't like it, but didn't invade (there was hardly peace, though).
Oct 7 happens, and we have the shit show we are seeing now.
Remember that during the whole time Hamas existed, there were people in Israel saying that Hamas being elected was enough reason to invade again.
As far as they are concerned, Hamas proved them right on October 7, so next time Israel shouldn't wait until October 7 - if a group with any similarity to Hamas was elected, they should be overthrown immediately.
Or you can just not allow Palestinians to elect their own government.
None of this is easy, or simple, or obvious, and no matter how much some people want to argue that if you just kill enough people it will all work out, colour me unconvinced.
Except this isn't Nazis vs the west.
This is a foreign colonial movement annihilating an indigenous population.
This is the US in Iraq, or Russia or the US in Afghanistan or Putin in Ukraine trying to wipe out Ukrainians in the Donbas.
You can't wipe out the entire indigenous population, nor can you wipe out an ideology of resistance to a foreign occupation.
You can't even ethnically cleanse them, much as you want it.
Its also not that complicated.
First thing you do after a ceasefire and investigations on both sides is you give everyone living under Israeli control full human rights including the vote.
You end apartheid and turn it into a democracy.
The population is roughly equal between Jews and Palestinians.
So you expect Israel to have to suffer more attacks because they play by asshole rules?
Such a great strategy.
Israel has been the military occupying power for 75 years.
They choose when the occupation ends, not the victims of the occupation.
Hamas had 75% support in Gaza the last time they were able to run a poll.
Netanyahu had 80% calling for his resignation.
80% of dems want a ceasefire.
Support for Israel is gone and will never come back.
The only side that supports targeting women and children is Israel.
If Israel is winning why do they say they will need to keep fighting there for a year?
Will you consider it a win when zionism = genocide to the entire world?
Does the rape end when the victim stops resisting?
