Hamas are the ones killing their own people. They are exhorting them to become martyrs while being used as human shields. And you support this.
Israel at war
- Thread starter Butler1000
- Start date
British Diplomat Resigns - Refuses to be Complicit in Israeli War Crimes
I'm not going to pretend you are arguing in good faith.
Stopped - Aiding genocide should be stopped, both through sending weapons and funding and through blocking international actions at the UN and elsewhere. Stopping a genocide should not be a controversial position.
You did, you used straw man arguments to pretend it wasn't a possible option.
That's based only on your straw man claims about my views, which are clearly your own ideas and not mine.
Specifically, what tactics do you think are bad?
I'm calling bullshit here. For months now you've been declaring that my position is fixed, that you know exactly what it is and then you go and make black and white, straw man arguments that show you haven't been listening. I've posted about uncommitted, which you argued were 'bad tactics'. I've repeatedly stated using the kind of political pressure that Shahid argues for is the best tactic and each time you declare that means you are wasting a vote. The entire point of uncommitted is to apply political pressure through threats of not voting for genocide. Now you say this what you meant all along?
bullshit
I see, so when Biden gifts Israel with billions in aid they then use to buy US weapons you consider that a sale, not a donation.
The 600 FMF cases don't count and you consider the US is just selling weapons, regardless of how much aid they send.
I still see you as not thinking aiding genocide to be an important issue.
How is it you defined conservatism?
This appears to be your position with Palestinians.
You must be insane.
Israel is dropping the bombs, torturing and raping Palestinians, starving them and using snipers on children.
Hamas offered a ceasefire in exchange for the hostages months ago but Netanyahu has chosen genocide instead.
Zionists are the ones who chose to do this.
Where Hamas are hiding among the civilians with the express intent of the civilians getting killed. Incestuous genocide.
You are projecting. This is what Hamas did on Oct.7 and subsequently to the hostages they took
Hamas broke the ceasefire that both parties agreed to in November by breaking the terms of the ceasefire and refused to return any more hostages. They were told in advance that this would be just cause for the ceasefire to end.
Israel has a right to defend itself and its' citizens against terrorists.
Nigeria: Muslims attack Christians as they work on their farms, shoot one, injure four
Nigeria remained the deadliest place in the world to follow Christ, with 4,118 people killed for their faith from Oct. 1, 2022 to Sept. 30, 2023, according to Open Doors’ 2024 World Watch List (WWL) report. More kidnappings of Christians than in any other country also took place in Nigeria, with 3,300….
morningstarnews.org
“The farmers were working on their farms around the Seheng area of the village, and as a result of the attack on the farmers, four of them sustained varying degrees of injuries,” Mwantiri said. “One of the Christian victims, Caleb Bachen, 32, was shot and wounded. One of his hands was fractured and shattered.”…
Nigeria remained the deadliest place in the world to follow Christ, with 4,118 people killed for their faith from Oct. 1, 2022 to Sept. 30, 2023, according to Open Doors’ 2024 World Watch List (WWL) report. More kidnappings of Christians than in any other country also took place in Nigeria, with 3,300….
Herdsmen Injure Four Christians in Plateau State, Nigeria - Morningstar News
Predominantly Muslim Fulani herdsmen on Tuesday (Aug. 6) attacked Christian farmers in Plateau state, wounding four of them, sources said.
morningstarnews.org
Its a concentration camp with no safe zones.
Maybe Israel should let all the civilians leave so they don't just kill them all.
Oh wait, that was the idea in the first place.
Fantasy.
Netanyahu doesn't want the genocide to end or he'll be turfed from office.
Israel has no right to kill the 16,000 children they have killed so far.
That's terrorism.
Starving 2 million people to death is not 'self defence', that's just nazi behaviour.
Actually, the idea was to give the Jews and Palis each some land with which to establish a state. Israel accepted but the Arabs did not.
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Looks like shack needs some history lessons on POS nation.
That's zionist supremacists for you, fabricate history to suit their own needs.
So all weapons sales to Israel must be halted?
Including ones already agreed to?
Not including those?
Future sales only?
All money to Israel has to be halted?
The US does not block any international action targeting the state of Israel?
I need specifics.
What will be acceptable?
Do all these have to happen before the election?
Does she have to say she will do them?
Does she have to say she will consider them?
What, exactly, is the ask, here?
If you aren't going to read what I say, why should I bother engaging with you?
Specifically, voting third party or not voting to protest the US position.
Hoping that if the Democrats lose due to a margin that you could say is because of the Gaza war, the party would fundamentally rethink its approach to Israel/Palestine.
So you either didn't read the dissent article or you didn't understand Shahid's comments in it.
You don't distinguish between these things when you post.
Is it your view that all weapons bought in the US by Israel are actually paid for by the US?
How is that a response to my comment?
If your point is "the pressure of withholding our votes will get them to change their positions" then you have to present yourself as gettable votes that can be convinced by a change in position.
If your point is "you have failed morally and must be removed" then no change in position will win your vote. At that point, the proper reaction of an elected official is to ignore you, since you have made it clear your vote isn't gettable.
Which does it appear this poster represents?
Please elaborate. This is an interesting approach you're trying here.
You 'need' specifics?
I need the US to abide by its own laws and not sell/gift weapons to countries committing war crimes.
You seem to be trying to figure out how much genocide support is acceptable.
Like, is it ok if Harris just sends drones and smart bombs, can we send those knivey missiles, is it ok if we just block the 2,000 lb bombs they use on tents?
Why are you trying to figure out how much genocide is ok?
I read it and responded, you posted as if there were only one option, I called you out on it.
Now you're trying to argue that's not what you meant.
Ideally that's the electoral nuclear option. Ideally Harris, unlike Biden, listens to protesters, her party and the rest of the world and stops the US from aiding genocide. Otherwise you are expecting people to just support genocide because you don't like rump. If Harris loses Uncommitted that's her choice and her problem. If rump is elected because she doesn't listen that's her bad tactics, not mine.
Or you've been misunderstanding and misrepresenting my views here for months.
Your views have been clear that you don't support uncommitted or pressuring Biden/Harris in any form that might risk rump winning. That you consider it pragmatic to accept voting for genocide to keep rump out of office.
Not once in any of these threads have you suggested you support any action to end the genocide. From street protests, to university protests to uncommitted to third party votes.
Now you're back to black and white, false arguments. If you want to go through the amount of aid vs weapons 'sold' to Israel and figure out what percentage that is, have at it. You suggested the US just 'sells' weapons to Israel, now mentioning that they also give the aid that Israel uses to buy most of those weapons has turned your argument back into a binary choice.
Have I not been posting since Harris became the candidate that I was waiting for her to make her position clear? Have I not said that now is the time to pressure her to change her position so she can regain Uncommitted votes?
Biden was another issue, people tried to pressure him, the party pushed, protesters pushed, international pressure pushed. Biden didn't respond. Now the fact that a large enough sections made it clear to Biden that the polls said he would lose have lead to him resigning. You're going to argue that it was his senility or some other issue, I'm going to argue that the genocide was one of the issues where people stating they wouldn't vote for him aided in him resigning as a candidate. That's a win for uncommitted and the arguments I've been making here.
So far my tactics looks smarter than yours on this issue.
We've been over this before.
Excusing Biden for aiding genocide is a clear example of you excusing backing your definition of conservatism by refusing to act on international law applying to Palestinians and Israelis. If you refuse to hold dems and Biden to the same laws you claim to support, your position becomes very much like MAGA supporters.
"There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Either you back the law and the law protects Palestinians as well or you back the dems regardless of aiding genocide because the other tribe might win.
POS Nation doing what it does best…being a country of bottom feeders.
What an “Ally”
www.theguardian.com
Israel feared legal trouble over US advocacy efforts, leaked files suggest
Exclusive: officials concerned by foreign agent law proposed creation of American nonprofit to avoid scrutiny
www.theguardian.com
